Your "return ethics"?

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Wartstein
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Your "return ethics"?

Postby Wartstein » Sat Nov 09, 2019 3:38 am

Edit: To be clear: My following question is SOLELY about when you get a for you totally new and unknown MODEL, one you never physically saw or handled before.

What is your approach and your standards, when it comes to returning a Spyderco that you ordered new from an online store (given the store has a respective return poilicy) if the knife has NO flaw(s)?

I personally handle it like this:

When I get a knife, I unbox it, hold it in hand, open and close it for two or three times, check for blade play, and solely visually inspect the edge (and the rest of the knife) for flaws.
I don´t touch the blade other then on the opening hole
I wipe off the small part of the blade round the hole where I touched it.
And of course I don´t cut anything whatsoever, not even one cut in paper.

After doing so I still allow myself to return the knife should I just REALLY not like it (so, again: NO touching of the blade, let alone cutting of course!)

I have to say, I actually VERY rarely return knives, most times I try and use , then either keep or sell them on the secondary market.

Still, it can happen that I return a new knife immidiately to the store and get back all the purchase price.

Where I live, selling used knives is really not easy and rather cumbersome. So by having the option to return a new knife after just holding it in hand, results in that I buy MORE knives and suppor Spyderco more in the end than I would without that approach.
On the other hand it would not bother me at all if I received a new knife somebody else has opened and closed two times already, but nothing else..

And: There are literally NO stores here, where I could handle ANY Spyderco model and then buy it there. Online is the ONLY way.

What´s YOUR opinion?!
Last edited by Wartstein on Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:13 am, edited 3 times in total.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby The Deacon » Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:05 am

I only return items if they are either defective or "not as advertised". Except for purchases from Amazon, which always go back to Amazon, defective items go back to the maker and items "not as advertised" go back to the vendor. For me, "buyer's remorse" is no reason to return an item, either to the vendor or to the maker.
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Wartstein
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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby Wartstein » Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:19 am

The Deacon wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:05 am
I only return items if they are either defective or "not as advertised". Except for purchases from Amazon, which always go back to Amazon, defective items go back to the maker and items "not as advertised" go back to the vendor. For me, "buyer's remorse" is no reason to return an item, either to the vendor or to the maker.
I know that many feel and do like you, and I think it is a very honorable approach! For quite a long time I did exactly like you too, and it was kind of a struggle to "allow" myself to actually make use of the return policy stores offer (at least as an option).

As said in my op: I changed my approach, cause in the end now I buy MORE Spydercos and do support that great brand MORE than if I would have stayed stricter. Why is this?: I am not a wealthy guy, I just can´t afford too many Spydercos (especially here in Europe). Plus, to sell used knives is REALLY hard where I live.
So if I know as a last option I´d have at least the opportunity to return a Spyderco (as said, I actually almost never DO it in the end, but try and use the knife, to keep or try to sell it on the secondary market eventually) makes me order (and KEEP /BUY) more knives than I would without that option.

And I thought to myself: Well, that´s just the totally official and "legal" way. It is offered by the store like they offer shipping, it is included in the purchase price, so it is ok.

But, you know, just that I started this thread and asked, how you all handle this, shows me that I am not totally comfortable with my "return ethics"... :o
I hope for more replies!
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Tims
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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby Tims » Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:52 am

I generally don’t return.

I have a few knives sitting in a drawer, including Spydercos, that definitely warrant return but I haven’t for the following reasons

- 99% of my knife buying is from the US. As an Aussie it is cost prohibitive to return a knife that I may be told doesn’t warrant replacement.

- To avoid the indignation of being told my returned knife is ‘within spec’ and doesn’t warrant replacement. That would leave the kind of sour taste in my mouth that might prevent me from buying from that company ever again. Which would severely limit my options for buying knives in the future.

I’ve returned a total of 1 knife. Advertised as new from a dealer, It came obviously as somebody elses return. The whole thing dragged on with b*llshit back and forth which I eventually opened a case with Paypal for. I think I got half my money back.

So, I’ve come to the conclusion it’s easier to take it on the chin and move on.

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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby The Mastiff » Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:03 am

I also don't return unless it is not as advertised. If there were to be a flaw it would go to Spyderco if for no other reason than to make sure it isn't going to be resold as is with flaws to someone else. If seriously flawed Spyderco will want to know about it for pretty obvious reasons.

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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby Wartstein » Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:07 am

The Mastiff wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:03 am
I also don't return unless it is not as advertised. If there were to be a flaw it would go to Spyderco if for no other reason than to make sure it isn't going to be resold as is with flaws to someone else. If seriously flawed Spyderco will want to know about it for pretty obvious reasons.

Joe
That´s a good approach when it comes to actual flaws... but for Europeans (or people not from living in America), sending a knife to Spyderco is not really an option...
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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby Tims » Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:14 am

The Mastiff wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:03 am
I also don't return unless it is not as advertised. If there were to be a flaw it would go to Spyderco if for no other reason than to make sure it isn't going to be resold as is with flaws to someone else. If seriously flawed Spyderco will want to know about it for pretty obvious reasons.

Joe
When I’ve considered sending knives in to Spyderco, this is how I hoped they would be received.

I then weigh that up with the possibility of being told “Sorry, but....”.

I mostly only buy Spyderco these days. I dare not risk diminishing my respect for the brand!

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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby Gamecock » Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:49 am

I wouldn’t return a knife that was without issue. I think it’s just wrong to do that to a small business. Do your research. Read reviews. Think about it carefully before the order.

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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby The Mastiff » Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:03 am

I can see you guys make decisions based on different facts that I am not having to deal with here. This isn't an I'm right and you are wrong situation for either of us and if I'm being honest and I was in your shoes the math would probably add up differently. I also see you guys as being honest and I respect that!

Joe

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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby soc_monki » Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:06 am

I've only returned one knife so far... My smoky mountain knife works blackout Kershaw Bareknuckle in 20cv. Blade was warped. Awaiting the exchange but it is worth it. Thing was perfect aside from the warp. Great detent, and after a drop of kpl on the detent track super smooth closing action. It was literally a cheap zt.

So yea, I don't return unless it's a flaw I can't fix lol
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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby I_like_knives » Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:17 am

"Buyer's remorse" isn't a valid reason to return something, IMO.

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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby JonLeBlanc » Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:30 am

I've never done. Any flaw would have to be grossly intolerable, and I've never seen that so...
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Wartstein
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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby Wartstein » Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:34 am

I_like_knives wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:17 am
"Buyer's remorse" isn't a valid reason to return something, IMO.
It´s not exactly "buyers remorse" imo.
Again, where I live there literally is NO store where I could physically look at or even hold a Spyderco.
Plus, I can´t afford too many.

So, just the possibility in the back of my mind that I COULD return the totally unused knife to the store (to do so as a a matter of fact is a totally official offer of the store and included in the price I pay) makes it easier to purchase a Spyderco and makes me buy MORE and support the brand MORE in the end (and again,in reality I almost never return any knife anyway. EDIT: In fact ONE. A Manix. Got a Manix LW instead, which I sold eventually on the secondary market).

But, as said: I am uncertain myself, otherwise I would not have started this thread. I just think: The possibility to return an item when purchasing online, in fact IS the equivalent to having a look at it and take it in hand in a brick and mortar store.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby sok » Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:39 am

I have never returned a knife. Every knife that I buy, I plan on carrying.

When I receive a knife, I usually give it a once over, flick it open and closed a couple of times, and then put it in my pocket. Even at that, I can honestly look back and I can’t think of any knife that I should have sent back because of defects or problems.

One of my favorite knives, Caly 3.5, was notorious for having a gritty pivot and bad grinds. I bought several of these over the years and just dealt with it.

Even though I have collected a lot of knives over the years, I don’t consider myself a collector. I justify my purchases as a hobby searching for the perfect pocket knife. I do have quite a few knives with only a day or two of carry and with a pristine edge still. I need to get around to selling them one of these days.

I do think there are people that are habitual returners. They return over anything. I don’t complain about them though. They keep everyone on their toes and help to ensure that the items that I buy are good to go.

The one thing I do worry about these days is the grind of the edge. I have no interest in trying to reprofile these super steels on a new knife. You edge freaks may clutch your pearls, but I would send a knife back to Spyderco for a re-grind even if I had to pay for it. Luckily, all my grinds from Golden have been awesome.

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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby araneae » Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:49 am

I return if there's a legit issue on an unused knife. I'm currently sitting on a small pile I need to sell that I received and just didn't love for some reason. I don't return for buyers remorse. I generally know in seconds if the knife is going to be a keeper. Unfortunately I have almost no physical local Spyderco dealers and the one I have only carries about 5 models.

I've seen way too many posts here of people that buy a knife, aren't happy, tinker with said knife trying to "fix" it and then return it. Not cool. If it's not up to par upon opening, send it back. Buy from a dealer that has a clear and fair return policy and you have no worries.
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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby Pelagic » Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:22 am

Something would have to be majorly wrong and unfixable by myself for me to send it anywhere. If I'm keeping the knife it's going to get used and eventually scratched and banged up, so what's the point? If I ever got into collecting, yeah I could see myself sending a Paysan or Nirvana back that had minor issues. I guess it totally depends on the issue. But I've certainly received knives with imperfections and never sent one in.
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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby I_like_knives » Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:23 am

Very few of us have a store nearby that stocks more than just a couple Spyderco models. But all of us have access to the internet. There are many resources available online to sell, or trade, unwanted knives.

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Wartstein
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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby Wartstein » Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:23 am

araneae wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:49 am
I return if there's a legit issue on an unused knife. I'm currently sitting on a small pile I need to sell that I received and just didn't love for some reason. I don't return for buyers remorse. I generally know in seconds if the knife is going to be a keeper. Unfortunately I have almost no physical local Spyderco dealers and the one I have only carries about 5 models.

I've seen way too many posts here of people that buy a knife, aren't happy, tinker with said knife trying to "fix" it and then return it. Not cool. If it's not up to par upon opening, send it back. Buy from a dealer that has a clear and fair return policy and you have no worries.
May I ask: If you know "in seconds if a knife is going to be a keeper " (or not),so if you JUST hold it in hands for very short and do less than quality control does : Why do you 100 % NOT allow yourself to return it to the dealer, even if the dealer officially has the respective return policy and you pay for that service?

For a long time I did exactly like this/like you do, and it felt more like a "question of honor". But then I thought: Just to have the possibility of returning a Spyderco in the back of my mind atually makes me buy and support Spyderco MORE, and I´d never return a knife that would have been "used" by any means (again, not even touching the blade other than the opening hole) anyway...
Last edited by Wartstein on Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby Wartstein » Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:28 am

Pelagic wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:22 am
Something would have to be majorly wrong and unfixable by myself for me to send it anywhere. If I'm keeping the knife it's going to get used and eventually scratched and banged up, so what's the point? If I ever got into collecting, yeah I could see myself sending a Paysan or Nirvana back that had minor issues. I guess it totally depends on the issue. But I've certainly received knives with imperfections and never sent one in.

My question is not about returning knives that have an issue.

It´s about the rare case where you maybe have to decide if you like a Spyderco by just seeing it in "real life" or if you rather buy a different model.

And you´d return it of course absoultely unused other then having held and opened/closed it

Given, as in my case, that you just can´t afford many Spydercos, that there is absolutely no store or chance to have a look at it, that selling on the secondary market is very difficult, and that of course you don't plan on returning but just see it as a last ditch possibility.

Again, I myself am not sure about the "correct ethics" here, and so I appreciate your and any input!!
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby Mushroom » Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:40 am

Been buying Spyderco for nearly 8 years now and have never needed to return one. I'm either really lucky or a less picky about some things. I'm also in the boat that doesn't agree with returning because of "buyers remorse." I'm probably lucky that there hasn't been a single Spyderco that I've regret buying.

I, personally, think there are some really selfish and shady return tactics used in the knife industry these days. I try to avoid returning things for petty reasons. Buying more than one of a specific model just to fondle them all and cherry pick the one you want to keep and then return the rest is incredibly selfish behavior, in my opinion. I would also consider buying a knife just to experiment with the ergonomics of it in the same category.

Cutting something isn't the only means of using a knife. I'd consider just opening and closing the knife using it. When I buy a brand new product online, I expect to receive a brand new product.
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