Spyderedged Blades: A Total Mis-Understanding Maybe?

[Evil D]

Anyone else think they'd prefer the serrations on the other side? I'm right handed and it feels wrong having the flat side of the knife to the right.

I would, but I also think they're easier to sharpen on the presentation side.

[James Y]

I’m actually fine with the serrations ground on the presentation side. Either way is fine with me. Victorinox’s serrations are ground on the other side, which also works great. But as Evil D said, they’re probably easier (or at least more intuitive) to resharpen if they’re ground on the presentation side (if you’re right-handed).

Jim

[Jazz]

Spyderco has them proper. Victorinox has them backwardass.

[vivi]

I've got a Victorinox with the serrations ground on the back side, and with the PE portion being next to the handle. A lot of people say they want one or both of those features on Spydercos, and knives like this let them test it out.



I don't like the shallow, small serration pattern as much as the Spyderco pattern. I also found I prefer having the PE portion at the tip for precise push cuts on a cutting board. I don't notice any advantage to having the serrations on the back side.

The out of box wood carving ability of these is through the roof. That PE part is chisel ground, so its about half the angle at the edge of a PE Swiss Army Knife....and those are already pretty thin.

[Evil D]

I've got a Victorinox with the serrations ground on the back side, and with the PE portion being next to the handle. A lot of people say they want one or both of those features on Spydercos, and knives like this let them test it out.



I don't like the shallow, small serration pattern as much as the Spyderco pattern. I also found I prefer having the PE portion at the tip for precise push cuts on a cutting board. I don't notice any advantage to having the serrations on the back side.

The out of box wood carving ability of these is through the roof. That PE part is chisel ground, so its about half the angle at the edge of a PE Swiss Army Knife....and those are already pretty thin.

Give me that plus the small PE portion at the tip. My thoughts on serrations on the back side is it would be easier to carve or even slice food if the flat side of the blade were on my left when holding the knife.

[Wartstein]

....My thoughts on serrations on the back side is it would be easier to carve or even slice food if the flat side of the blade were on my left when holding the knife.

That's what I too would think intuetively.

[Brackish]

I’m one of those who won’t carry anything other than a PE knife for EDC, and I honestly can’t tell you why. I recently ordered my brother his first Spyderco as a thank you gift. Like me, he fishes quite a bit. So, I purchased him a Salt 2 Wharncliffe in SE. I opened to box and messed with the knife a bit to make sure it was good to go before passing it on to him. I have no idea why, but I instantly knew that if I owned the knife that it would never get carried. I’d always choose one on my PE knives instead. Guess I’m just a weirdo.

[VooDooChild]

I didn't think the edge would benefit from the reduced teeth of sharpening. I'm not too experienced with serrations, so thanks for your insights Lance and Vivi. Think i'll have to look into getting some serrated blade for my edc in the future. I'm not totally sold on the H1 steel yet though. Think i'd rather look for some SE LC200N blade. Really like that stuff in the PE knife that i got.

Get se H1.
You would have to read through alot of threads from years back but I will give you the bullet points so to speak.

Basically pe H1 kinda sucks, but se H1 is pretty much the super steel to have.

1. Its real world rust proof. Even if the hardware starts to go on the knife the steel is fine.
2. Its crazy tough. It bends before it breaks, and some people who have bent h1 have bent it back straight in a vise.
3. In se its rockwell hardness jumps through the roof. H1 work hardens so the grinding of serrations from the factory causes it to have a very high hardness at the edge when compared to its plain edge counterpart. This also creates differential hardening which is desireable for many. Sorry I cant find the quote but at the time Sal said it tested higher than anything they had measured. I really want to say the original jumpmaster came out at like 67 or 68 hrc at the edge for se H1.

Unless any new info has changed any of this, those are pretty much the ultimate stats for any blade. If you can put up with having serrations then nothing is going to beat it.

Basically get some se H1 and dont look back.

[Wartstein]

I didn't think the edge would benefit from the reduced teeth of sharpening. I'm not too experienced with serrations, so thanks for your insights Lance and Vivi. Think i'll have to look into getting some serrated blade for my edc in the future. I'm not totally sold on the H1 steel yet though. Think i'd rather look for some SE LC200N blade. Really like that stuff in the PE knife that i got.

Get se H1.
You would have to read through alot of threads from years back but I will give you the bullet points so to speak.

Basically pe H1 kinda sucks, but se H1 is pretty much the super steel to have.

1. Its real world rust proof. Even if the hardware starts to go on the knife the steel is fine.
2. Its crazy tough. It bends before it breaks, and some people who have bent h1 have bent it back straight in a vise.
3. In se its rockwell hardness jumps through the roof. H1 work hardens so the grinding of serrations from the factory causes it to have a very high hardness at the edge when compared to its plain edge counterpart. This also creates differential hardening which is desireable for many. Sorry I cant find the quote but at the time Sal said it tested higher than anything they had measured. I really want to say the original jumpmaster came out at like 67 or 68 hrc at the edge for se H1.

Unless any new info has changed any of this, those are pretty much the ultimate stats for any blade. If you can put up with having serrations then nothing is going to beat it.

Basically get some se H1 and dont look back.

I don´t know if PE H1 "basically sucks", cause I have no experience with it whatsoever.

But SE H1 really IS what people always say. Of course I never doubted obviously very trustworthy guys like Vivi, but I just couldn´t (or tbh still fully CAN´T) understand all that work hardening thing.

But speaking as a really not great sharpener or steel expert at all, but long time knife user: My SE H1 holds an edge MUCH longer than I would have thought or am used to. And that is NOT (only) due to the serrations, I know serrations also in VG10 (Endela, CE Endura, CE Delica) so I can compare. H1 does better.
As said, I still don´t fully understand HOW that H1 SE magic works. Even less so,cause on the other hand it is very easy to sharpen, but still holds an edge for such a long time...

[Wartstein]

I asked this in some other thread, but never got a reply:

How does ZDP 189 or do other very hard and presumably rather brittle steels up when done in spyderedge?
Is it true, that Spydero stopped making serrated blades in ZDP cause it was too brittle for that?

[Evil D]

I asked this in some other thread, but never got a reply:

How does ZDP 189 or do other very hard and presumably rather brittle steels up when done in spyderedge?
Is it true, that Spydero stopped making serrated blades in ZDP cause it was too brittle for that?

I'm kinda surprised they could even grind serrations into ZDP. I bet those grinding wheels wore down fast. I'm equally impressed that those knives came with a sharp edge with how much ZDP can burr and chip. I remember at least a few people raving over SE ZDP but it sounds like a complete nightmare to me.

[vivi]

I always found ZDP to burr extremely little, sharpened up real well for me for such a high edge retention steel. Never did try it in SE though.

[JD Spydo]

I always found ZDP to burr extremely little, sharpened up real well for me for such a high edge retention steel. Never did try it in SE though.

I never got to try one of the Endura or any other model with ZDP-189 in Spyderedge. But I've talked to several people over the years and also to a couple of Spyderco's staff at the factory store>> they told me that ZDP-189 proved to be too brittle and they had problems with teeth chipping and breaking off under hard use. And there must be some valid truth in that because it didn't take Spyderco very long to delete the ZDP-189 models in SE.

I've even heard it's getting extremely tough to find one for a collector piece.

It's like I said at the beginning of this thread. The blade steels I've found to work very well in SE are steels that are mostly known for their toughness and a to some degree minor ductility properties as well. I've had my best luck with steels like AUS-8, ATS-55, ATS-34, GIN-1 >> one steel that was known for hardness that I found good for SE blades was Crucibles 440V ( S60V). The C-36 full SE Military is one I've been looking the hardest for to find a used unit for hard use.

But don't let that be the final answer Vivi because I've had a couple of guys just in the last year brag to me how well their serrated ZDP-189 Endura models have performed for them over the years. I'm sure it has a lot to do with the types of cutting jobs you encounter. Myself I tend to put knives through some really rough work at times.

[Evil D]

I always found ZDP to burr extremely little, sharpened up real well for me for such a high edge retention steel. Never did try it in SE though.

Much of my issues with it burring are probably due to inexperience since it was one of the first "real" steels I learned to sharpen. That said, at the time it did burr far worse than the other steels I was learning on. Well, besides 154CM I wouldn't buy that steel again for any price.

[tonijedi]

1. PE H1 doesn't suck.
2. SE ZDP-189 doesn't suck.

I have both, maybe they're not the best on either configuration but they don't suck. We're spoiled knife nerds.
Go and read the PE H1 Pacific Salt reviews on Amazon: you'll see many people praising the edge retention... that's strange for us, inside our little bubble.

I've never taken SE ZDP-189 to abuse levels, but in my experience any SE edge (including H1) should be uses with extra care when we're talking "abuse" cause it's much thinner and prone to damage than PE blades.

[vivi]

^Absolutely true.

That serrated Spartan I started carrying yesterday? Already damaged the edge. I tested the main blade out on a small stick to see how well it makes feather sticks. That tiny PE portion near the tip was rippled, with visible chips and bends. Only took a minute to fix on my DMT fine, but it's a reminder that the edge geometry on serrated knives is very thin.

[JD Spydo]

1. PE H1 doesn't suck.
2. SE ZDP-189 doesn't suck.

I have both, maybe they're not the best on either configuration but they don't suck. We're spoiled knife nerds.
Go and read the PE H1 Pacific Salt reviews on Amazon: you'll see many people praising the edge retention... that's strange for us, inside our little bubble.

I've never taken SE ZDP-189 to abuse levels, but in my experience any SE edge (including H1) should be uses with extra care when we're talking "abuse" cause it's much thinner and prone to damage than PE blades.

Please don't misunderstand what I was saying. I'm not at all saying that ZDP-189 in SE sucks. I was just simply repeating what Spyderco themselves said about the problems they had with that model in that blade steel in SE. In the past 4 to 5 years I've spoke to 2 different guys that have the Endura SE in ZDP-189. They both told me that they had really good performance with it.

But don't lose sight of the fact that Spyderco themselves admitted to warranty problems that they had with ZDP-189 blades in SE. I'm sure it's going to heavily depend on what type of cutting jobs you might be doing with that particular model in SE with that particular blade steel.

Like I said in a post I made earlier that most of the blade steels I've had the best results with in SE are mostly blade steels that have more of a toughness aspect to them. And I am a fan of the blades I own in ZDP-189>> but mine are all PE. Some steels are so hard that I think when you exceed a Rockwell rating of 61 or higher you might want to try some other blade steel for serrated blades.