Spyderedged Blades: A Total Mis-Understanding Maybe?

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Doc Dan
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Re: Spyderedged Blades: A Total Mis-Understanding Maybe?

Postby Doc Dan » Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:34 pm

Surfingringo wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:08 pm
aaronkb wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:17 am
Honestly I’m sure I could learn to sharpen SE but I’d have to buy a different sharpening system and I’d much rather focus on improving my sharpening skills with stones. I think the plain edge just gives me more enjoyment, however practical serrations may be.
Hi Aaron. IMHO, everyone should own a Sharpmaker. There is no faster and more effective way to keep your plain edge knives at extreme levels of sharp. And once you have a sharpmaker, you will find that sharpening serrated edges is actually easier than sharpening plain edge knives.
I agree whole heartedly.
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Re: Spyderedged Blades: A Total Mis-Understanding Maybe?

Postby Wartstein » Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:44 pm

Doc Dan wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:32 pm
I wish Spyderco would make an orange FFG SE Endura.
+1

Any color, doesn't have to be orange (though I like that handle color). Just an ffg Endura with serrations exactly like the Endela SE has.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Spyderedged Blades: A Total Mis-Understanding Maybe?

Postby tbdoc4kids » Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:45 pm

Doc Dan wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:32 pm
I wish Spyderco would make an orange FFG SE Endura.
This!

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Re: Spyderedged Blades: A Total Mis-Understanding Maybe?

Postby Hobnob » Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:50 pm

Great subject. There has been a lot of chatter lately about SE blades. I think people are becoming more receptive to blades with TEETH. I'm one of those people. Even though I've had several (Pac Salt, Salt 1) for years, they haven't been carried much. My current rotation is between the Salt 2 (SE) and my Delica (PE).

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Re: Spyderedged Blades: A Total Mis-Understanding Maybe?

Postby Mattysc42 » Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:24 am

The only reason I don’t have more serrated blades is because I can’t sharpen them on my wicked edge. My eyes are bad (right eye extremely nearsighted, left extremely farsighted, glasses only help with distance vision) which makes holding a steady angle with the sharpmaker a PITA. Freehanding on a stone or beltsander is easier for me, as I move the blade horizontally, rather than vertically. Eventually I’ll get the technique down well enough to sharpen by feel rather than sight, but I’m not there yet.
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Top 5 knives I’ve owned: Serrated Caribbean Leaf, Shaman, Manix XL, ZDP-189/CF Caly 3.5, Native LW.
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Re: Spyderedged Blades: A Total Mis-Understanding Maybe?

Postby Rutger » Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:10 am

The thing that bugs me with a serrated edge is that when you sharpen them on the corner of a stone (or the sharpmaker) you are slowly going to round off your pointy teeth. And the spyderedge would need several different shaped stones/rods to properly sharpen the serrations.

But i do see the appeal of a (fully) serrated blade for certain applications like rope, zip-ties etc. I might have to get one in the future as a backup knife to ride along in my jacket/coat. Maybe if i don't use the knife too much the sharpening won't be a big enough issue.

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Re: Spyderedged Blades: A Total Mis-Understanding Maybe?

Postby Surfingringo » Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:45 am

Rutger wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:10 am
The thing that bugs me with a serrated edge is that when you sharpen them on the corner of a stone (or the sharpmaker) you are slowly going to round off your pointy teeth...
Exactly. And as that happens the knife begins to perform better, not worse. There are VERY few tasks that respond better to very pointy serrations vs. those that have been rounded a bit. Just my observations from using them for years on the kayak. I perform a number of tasks (like cutting through heavy gills or cartilage in tight quarters) that are much easier and safer with serrations but even in those tasks a brand new Spydie with very pointy serrations will tend to snag too much and not perform as well as one that has tips with a bit more rounding. And as far as longevity of the tips, I have an old Pacific Salt that has been sharpened HUNDREDS of times on the Sharpmaker and still has perfectly functional teeth.

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Re: Spyderedged Blades: A Total Mis-Understanding Maybe?

Postby Evil D » Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:46 am

Rutger wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:10 am
The thing that bugs me with a serrated edge is that when you sharpen them on the corner of a stone (or the sharpmaker) you are slowly going to round off your pointy teeth. And the spyderedge would need several different shaped stones/rods to properly sharpen the serrations.

But i do see the appeal of a (fully) serrated blade for certain applications like rope, zip-ties etc. I might have to get one in the future as a backup knife to ride along in my jacket/coat. Maybe if i don't use the knife too much the sharpening won't be a big enough issue.

I've come to prefer the teeth rounded off. They snag less and slice better and still cut very aggressively.
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Re: Spyderedged Blades: A Total Mis-Understanding Maybe?

Postby Surfingringo » Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:47 am

This is a Pacific Salt that is 2 years old and has been sharpened probably 50 times on the Sharpmaker. The serrations and the points are still completely intact and function better now than when the knife was new. I hear many people on the forums regurgitating the idea that you will “sharpen away your serrations” with the Sharpmaker. This is just another internet myth that is not rooted in reality.

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Re: Spyderedged Blades: A Total Mis-Understanding Maybe?

Postby JD Spydo » Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:36 am

Evil D wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:15 pm
I really don't care for actual full SE, it bothers me to no end when the blade ends on a random serration and I like having that wee bit of PE at the tip of for no other reason than aesthetics but I do think it helps to keep a good penetrating tip. As long as I have maybe a half inch of PE at the tip I'm good.
I do like that feature as well. Because on my pitbull SE folder as I like to call it>> which is an old 440V, SE NATIVE model I have about a full half inch of PE on the very end just like you've described and I find it far more useful that most people would think. And it's not that hard to keep that small section of PE edge super sharp. All you need is 3 of the Sharpmaker stones and you can have it shaving sharp within less that 5 minutes.. And sometime that's all the PE you need for some jobs.

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Re: Spyderedged Blades: A Total Mis-Understanding Maybe?

Postby JD Spydo » Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:46 am

Surfingringo wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:47 am
This is a Pacific Salt that is 2 years old and has been sharpened probably 50 times on the Sharpmaker. The serrations and the points are still completely intact and function better now than when the knife was new. I hear many people on the forums regurgitating the idea that you will “sharpen away your serrations” with the Sharpmaker. This is just another internet myth that is not rooted in reality.
That's an interesting picture of a Spyderedged blade that has been sharpened that many times on a Sharpmaker. I'm now wondering what method of pulling it across the stones you might be using? Because I've seen so many SE blades that people have done with the Sharpmaker for an extended period of time to where the points/spikes of the serrations get severely rounded off and that is something I try to avoid at all costs. I'm now using the 204 Sharpmaker on a couple of SE folders a lot more than I used to. Here lately I've been using a skewing type motion bringing them downward and I'm having somewhat better results that I used to have. I start bringing down at about a 45 degree angle and skew it on the way down and I'm having better results than I used to have. I also de-burr the back side at an angle as well and it seems to work good.

About every 3 to 5 sharpenings I still use the 701 Profiles to try to keep the serrations looking factory new and I'm having good results doing it that way. I also have some of those conical diamond rods that DMT sells to keep the scallops perfectly curved if they get chipped or badly dinged up. But I don't have to do that routine very often. But again I'm wondering what pulling method might keep that "rounding off" problem from occuring?

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Re: Spyderedged Blades: A Total Mis-Understanding Maybe?

Postby prndltech » Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:20 am

JD Spydo wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:46 am
Surfingringo wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:47 am
This is a Pacific Salt that is 2 years old and has been sharpened probably 50 times on the Sharpmaker. The serrations and the points are still completely intact and function better now than when the knife was new. I hear many people on the forums regurgitating the idea that you will “sharpen away your serrations” with the Sharpmaker. This is just another internet myth that is not rooted in reality.
That's an interesting picture of a Spyderedged blade that has been sharpened that many times on a Sharpmaker. I'm now wondering what method of pulling it across the stones you might be using? Because I've seen so many SE blades that people have done with the Sharpmaker for an extended period of time to where the points/spikes of the serrations get severely rounded off and that is something I try to avoid at all costs. I'm now using the 204 Sharpmaker on a couple of SE folders a lot more than I used to. Here lately I've been using a skewing type motion bringing them downward and I'm having somewhat better results that I used to have. I start bringing down at about a 45 degree angle and skew it on the way down and I'm having better results than I used to have. I also de-burr the back side at an angle as well and it seems to work good.

About every 3 to 5 sharpenings I still use the 701 Profiles to try to keep the serrations looking factory new and I'm having good results doing it that way. I also have some of those conical diamond rods that DMT sells to keep the scallops perfectly curved if they get chipped or badly dinged up. But I don't have to do that routine very often. But again I'm wondering what pulling method might keep that "rounding off" problem from occuring?
Those are rounded. Not nearly as pointy as a new SE pacific salt. I sharpen mine on the sharpmaker just like I would any other knife. Basically exactly how Sal shows in the instructional video and I personally don’t worry about rounding points because, as a few have already said, it seems to actually cut better and snag less. There’s many ways to skin a cat, this one works for me. Fast and easy.
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Re: Spyderedged Blades: A Total Mis-Understanding Maybe?

Postby James Y » Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:20 am

Surfingringo wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:47 am
This is a Pacific Salt that is 2 years old and has been sharpened probably 50 times on the Sharpmaker. The serrations and the points are still completely intact and function better now than when the knife was new. I hear many people on the forums regurgitating the idea that you will “sharpen away your serrations” with the Sharpmaker. This is just another internet myth that is not rooted in reality.

Image
I think the idea that the serrations will sharpen away has to do with those who go too fast using too much pressure when using the SM. Either that, or maybe some others just use a flat stone and try to sharpen it like a standard plain edge.

With H1 serrations, I find that after some sharpenings, they have less of a tendency to bend or roll than when new.

Jim

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Re: Spyderedged Blades: A Total Mis-Understanding Maybe?

Postby prndltech » Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:32 am

Well I just ordered 3 SE hawkbills to add to the SE love. A ladybug, dragonfly and Tasman. I’ll have to learn how to sharpen the hawkbill now.
The planter, the farmer, the mechanic, and the laborer... form the great body of the people of the United States, they are the bone and sinew of the country men who love liberty and desire nothing but equal rights and equal laws. - Andrew Jackson

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Re: Spyderedged Blades: A Total Mis-Understanding Maybe?

Postby Spook410 » Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:14 pm

- Don't use a sharpmaker

- Regular edges work fine

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Re: Spyderedged Blades: A Total Mis-Understanding Maybe?

Postby Wartstein » Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:37 pm

Surfingringo wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:47 am
This is a Pacific Salt that is 2 years old and has been sharpened probably 50 times on the Sharpmaker. The serrations and the points are still completely intact and function better now than when the knife was new. I hear many people on the forums regurgitating the idea that you will “sharpen away your serrations” with the Sharpmaker. This is just another internet myth that is not rooted in reality.


I can just recommend again and again the Endela SE to anyone, who wants to get into or already likes great serrations.
For not too much money it is a a real workhorse knife and I think a pleasure to use for anyone, who likes a really good cutting tool.

Compared to other SE knives (as far as I can tell) and also to a new Pac Salt SE, the Endela comes already with rather shallow and not too agressive serrations like the Pac Salt in Lances pic developed from frequent sharpening, and that in an ffg blade, which makes it an amazing cutter for many tasks.

For me the Endela SE feels a bit like an "optimized, better plain edge", while my Pac Salt feels more like a "great serrated edge" if you know what I mean...

EDIT: Pics see post below this
Last edited by Wartstein on Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Spyderedged Blades: A Total Mis-Understanding Maybe?

Postby Wartstein » Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:42 pm

Added to my post above:

Here you can compare the rather shallow, not too agressive serrations of the Endela SE to the ones on the Pac Salt

Image

Image
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Spyderedged Blades: A Total Mis-Understanding Maybe?

Postby AccountDeletedUserRequest » Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:38 pm

Here's three more Pacific Salts to add:

First, a brand new SE Pacific Salt:

Image

Image

Image

Second, a SE Pacific Salt that saw three years of carry. It has been sharpened at 15 degrees the entire time, using a combination of diamond and medium sharpmaker stones. Heel to tip strokes using a single motion across the entire edge:

Image

Image

Image

Lastly, the beater. Used ? number of years, it was dull, beat up and had rounded / bent serrations when I got it. Reprofiled to 15 degrees on diamonds, which removed lots of steel. Sharpened at 15 degrees on diamonds then 2 strokes per side at 20 on medium rods.

Image

Image

Image

My favorite one to cut with would be the black user in the middle, followed by the beater with the rounded edge with a toothy finish.

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Re: Spyderedged Blades: A Total Mis-Understanding Maybe?

Postby VooDooChild » Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:40 pm

Since we are on the subject, does anyone have opinions on other type of serration patterns. Veff, flaf top serrations that can be sharpened on a bench stone, chisel top serrations. I guess we are always splitting the difference between a knife and a saw as well. From the veff serrations argument should they cut equally on both strokes?, as those seem to favor pull cuts. The list goes on.
Werent they originally developed for cutting through sheet metal? They sure are about the perfect thing for rope.
I dont really know what im trying to get at here. I guess I will pose the question, who prefers the iconic spyderedge, or who feels there could be a better serration pattern?

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Re: Spyderedged Blades: A Total Mis-Understanding Maybe?

Postby James Y » Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:44 pm

VooDooChild wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:40 pm
Since we are on the subject, does anyone have opinions on other type of serration patterns. Veff, flaf top serrations that can be sharpened on a bench stone, chisel top serrations. I guess we are always splitting the difference between a knife and a saw as well. From the veff serrations argument should they cut equally on both strokes?, as those seem to favor pull cuts. The list goes on.
Werent they originally developed for cutting through sheet metal? They sure are about the perfect thing for rope.
I dont really know what im trying to get at here. I guess I will pose the question, who prefers the iconic spyderedge, or who feels there could be a better serration pattern?
I don’t know about the Veff pattern, but I do know that the serrated David Boye boat folder with dendritic cobalt sheepsfoot blade cuts rope very well. Its pattern is gentler and wavy. I won’t say it cuts rope better than the Spyderedge pattern, but it’s probably the smoothest-cutting for rope or fibrous materials. Curiously, at least my example doesn’t feel all that sharp out of the box, but it sure does cut rope well. I would say that the Spyderco pattern is overall more versatile.

Jim


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