New Steel – Crucible S45VN

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Larrin
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New Steel – Crucible S45VN

Postby Larrin » Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:04 am

Crucible and Niagara have just announced a new stainless powder metallurgy steel – S45VN. I was able to get a bar of it early to do a range of experiments on it including hardness, corrosion resistance, and toughness. I have a recommendation on how to best heat treat it too. How does it compare to the existing stainless knife steels? https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/11/01/ ... 5vn-steel/
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Re: New Steel – Crucible S45VN

Postby rabbitanarchy14 » Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:59 am

Is spyderco trying it out?
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Re: New Steel – Crucible S45VN

Postby James Y » Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:10 am

Wow, great info, Larrin!

I suspect if any knife manufacturers decide to use S45VN, Spyderco will probably be the first.

Jim

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Re: New Steel – Crucible S45VN

Postby bearfacedkiller » Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:37 am

I have found S30V to be a little corrosion prone for a stainless steel so this may be a welcome improvement.

I have seen quite a few people on the internet incorrectly state that S35VN has nitrogen. I guess they just assume the N is nitrogen? Maybe this S45VN will clear that up.

I expect to see knife knuts turning their collective nose up at S35VN like they did with S30V. Out with the old and in with the new.

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Re: New Steel – Crucible S45VN

Postby Larrin » Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:40 am

bearfacedkiller wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:37 am
I have found S30V to be a little corrosion prone for a stainless steel so this may be a welcome improvement.

I have seen quite a few people on the internet incorrectly state that S35VN has nitrogen. I guess they just assume the N is nitrogen? Maybe this S45VN will clear that up.

I expect to see knife knuts turning their collective nose up at S35VN like they did with S30V. Out with the old and in with the new.

When is the Mule coming out? :D
Yes it's kind of confusing. S30V has a nitrogen additions, while S35VN does not. The "N" in S35VN stands for niobium. But S45VN has both nitrogen and niobium. So it's a double "N" steel. I have a feeling no one is going to keep this straight.
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Re: New Steel – Crucible S45VN

Postby abbazaba » Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:52 am

Good read as always, thank you!

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Re: New Steel – Crucible S45VN

Postby curlyhairedboy » Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:02 am

Larrin, well written!
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Re: New Steel – Crucible S45VN

Postby emanuel » Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:18 am

Thanks for the article Larrin, it's always a joy reading about new steels. My question now is, why would I chose S45VN over M390? Seems to be slightly worse at everything, from toughness, wear resistance, to edge retention and corrosion resistance. If it costs the same as S30V/S35VN I could see a use for it, if its 10-20% more expensive, than we're in the price range of 20CV/M390.

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Re: New Steel – Crucible S45VN

Postby Larrin » Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:19 pm

emanuel wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:18 am
Thanks for the article Larrin, it's always a joy reading about new steels. My question now is, why would I chose S45VN over M390? Seems to be slightly worse at everything, from toughness, wear resistance, to edge retention and corrosion resistance. If it costs the same as S30V/S35VN I could see a use for it, if its 10-20% more expensive, than we're in the price range of 20CV/M390.
Here is the answer I gave in another forum:
"The reason that the somewhat better toughness result for 20CV and M390 is puzzling is because of the significantly coarser carbide structure. The finer structure of S45VN would be expected to lead to better ease in machining and sharpening and better resistance to chipping when compared with 20CV. So it could be that another effect (like RA) is what led to a good toughness result in 20CV and would not necessarily show up in the end knife, or would not translate to thin edges."

So I think more testing is required.
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Re: New Steel – Crucible S45VN

Postby Ez556 » Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:32 pm

An increase in corrosion resistance is definitely nice.
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Re: New Steel – Crucible S45VN

Postby Pelagic » Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:06 pm

Your article is amazing, thank you. The steel seems ok. Unless it has a really nice sharpening response I'll probably avoid it. I have a feeling it could see a surge of popularity in the market, yielding prices that don't exactly correspond with performance. Looks like another s##v steel.

That picture of Vanax's grain structure really puts things into perspective.
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Re: New Steel – Crucible S45VN

Postby Larrin » Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:42 pm

Pelagic wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:06 pm
Your article is amazing, thank you. The steel seems ok. Unless it has a really nice sharpening response I'll probably avoid it. I have a feeling it could see a surge of popularity in the market, yielding prices that don't exactly correspond with performance. Looks like another s##v steel.

That picture of Vanax's grain structure really puts things into perspective.
Vanax is an interesting one. Its high corrosion resistance somewhat limits its max hardness (60-61 Rc), though that is enough for many knives. It has a nice fine carbide/nitride structure which likely helps with fine edge abilities. The high content of carbide/nitride still limits its toughness to being no better than something like S35VN though. It demonstrates some very intriguing R&D.
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Re: New Steel – Crucible S45VN

Postby JD Spydo » Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:44 pm

Say Larrin you've done another excellent thread and I now look forward to all the excellent blade steel threads you take the time to share with us.

I have one question about this new Crucible S45VN? Of all of Crucible's great blade steels which one do you think it resembles the most? Also which other high end blade steels of Crucible's competitor's that Sal has spoiled us on do you think it comes close to in overall performance?

Again Larrin we can't thank you enough for all this great information you take the time to share with us.

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Re: New Steel – Crucible S45VN

Postby Larrin » Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:10 pm

JD Spydo wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:44 pm
Say Larrin you've done another excellent thread and I now look forward to all the excellent blade steel threads you take the time to share with us.

I have one question about this new Crucible S45VN? Of all of Crucible's great blade steels which one do you think it resembles the most? Also which other high end blade steels of Crucible's competitor's that Sal has spoiled us on do you think it comes close to in overall performance?

Again Larrin we can't thank you enough for all this great information you take the time to share with us.
It is closest to S30V, S35VN, and Elmax.
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Re: New Steel – Crucible S45VN

Postby ugaarguy » Fri Nov 01, 2019 5:01 pm

Larrin, thanks for the article. I'll have to re-read it when I'm more mentally fresh.

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Re: New Steel – Crucible S45VN

Postby The Mastiff » Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:03 pm

Larrin, thanks for getting this stuff to us as quickly as you did. As usual you cover the questions about performance we like to ask.

After thinking about it other than the sexiness of it being a new steel it seems to not really break any new grounds nor is it really filling any needs not already being filled. It should be a competent and fine performing knife steel. Right in the S30V to M390 range where so many other steels are already being used. Hopefully it's cheap enough to make it worth changing.

Joe

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Re: New Steel – Crucible S45VN

Postby Doc Dan » Fri Nov 01, 2019 8:31 pm

It seems to have better edge retention and corrosion resistance than S35VN, which is it bad at all. I note it is only marginally less tough than S35VN. Will it out perform S30V in edge retention? What about machinability?

Anyway, thanks for another good article.
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Re: New Steel – Crucible S45VN

Postby steelcity16 » Fri Nov 01, 2019 8:56 pm

Call me when when they improve upon Cruwear! :D
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Re: New Steel – Crucible S45VN

Postby sal » Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:13 pm

Hi Steelcity,

Cruwear was improved when Crucible decided to powder the material. Better than it had ever been. When I first learned about Cruwear, it was called Vascowear and Gerber made a Folding hunter with it. I liked the steel so I talked with Crucible about making some for us and they took upon themselves to improve it. Bravo to them.

S45VN is a steel that was developed by one of their metallurgists (Frank) as an improvement to S35VN. More incremental than revolutionary, but it did test well and we're working with it.

sal

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Re: New Steel – Crucible S45VN

Postby Baron Mind » Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:58 pm

So improved corrosion resistance, and toughness and edge retention in between s30v and s35vn. But what I find interesting is the higher possible working hardness. Run it around 63 and it may be worth the fuss, no?


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