Spydiechef Rusted After First Use

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
Marulaghost
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Re: Spydiechef Rusted After First Use

Postby Marulaghost » Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:32 pm

I live in the west coast of FL and my new spydiechef has given me no issues at all with rust

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Re: Spydiechef Rusted After First Use

Postby The Meat man » Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:41 pm

Very strange.

The corrosion around the detent ball was an issue that Spyderco solved by replacing the steel ball with a ceramic one. If that is indeed rust in the photo of the pivot, then I suspect you must have gotten an older version by mistake.

The rust spots on the blade are more puzzling. We know that LC200N will not rust in saltwater. Surfingringo most notably, but many others also, testify to this fact.
I'm driven to the conclusion that the rust on the blade was caused by surface contamination from the factory.

OP, it would be interesting if you could send your knife in and have Spyderco investigate the problem.
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talesk
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Re: Spydiechef Rusted After First Use

Postby talesk » Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:00 pm

The Caribbean also needs to be updated...

From the site:
leaf-shaped blade is precision machined from LC200N- a nitrogen-based martensitic steel that holds and edge extremely well and is completely rustproof

Link: https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/detail ... -Leaf/1091
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Re: Spydiechef Rusted After First Use

Postby Sumdumguy » Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:17 pm

talesk wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:00 pm
The Caribbean also needs to be updated...

From the site:
leaf-shaped blade is precision machined from LC200N- a nitrogen-based martensitic steel that holds and edge extremely well and is completely rustproof

Link: https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/detail ... -Leaf/1091
Don't start with my Caribbean >:(

Lest you behold furious retribution! LOL

We can't yet say it's not completely rust proof. Just because foreign metal on the steel is corroding doesn't mean the blade is bad. They just need to adjust the way the steel is finished and cleaned. Possibly.

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Vivi
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Re: Spydiechef Rusted After First Use

Postby Vivi » Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:35 pm

Well I'm gonna let my waterway soak in vinegar for an hour out of curiosity.

Edit: no rust.
Last edited by Vivi on Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Spydiechef Rusted After First Use

Postby ZrowsN1s » Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:42 pm

I've never Salt water tested LC200N, but I leave it wet and dirty with food stuck to it for days sometimes, never even a hint of an issue. YMMV
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mb1
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Re: Spydiechef Rusted After First Use

Postby mb1 » Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:59 pm

sal wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:20 pm
mb1 wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:43 pm
Hey Sal, could you clear up the questions and confusion on the hardware too? A bunch of us were speculating and wondering what the black coating was about on the latest CQI version.

Hi Mb1,

We're still testing.

sal
Hey Sal,

I probably wasn’t very clear. I’m referring to what appears to be black oxide coating on the latest batch of Spydiechef’s sold. The assumption was the hardware must be stainless, thus not rustproof, so the hardware was coated to aid in corrosion resistance. Just curious if that’s the case since we were speculating.

Thanks
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Re: Spydiechef Rusted After First Use

Postby Surfingringo » Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:25 pm

I suspect that is one of the models with the steel detent ball. Not sure if the newer spydiechefs got upgraded to a ceramic detent? At any rate, that steel ball can show rust quickly when exposed to saltwater or other corrosive environments. The rust on the blade is almost certainly the result of bleed off from the detent ball or other hardware and not the lc200n itself rusting.
Last edited by Surfingringo on Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Spydiechef Rusted After First Use

Postby Cambertree » Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:54 pm

I had light pinpoints of orange rust appear on one side of my Waterway in the first week of use.

I was surprised, but as I had heard about the possibility of surface contamination on this forum, I thought the issue through.

The tiny rust points appeared on the side which was left facing up, with liquid residue on it from being rinsed after use on food prep, including slicing lemons.

I had sharpened and stropped the edge and flats lightly before using the knife.

The rust spots didn't rub off with a fingernail.

After thinking about it, I determined that some particles of steel - probably carbon steel or tool steel had contaminated the LC200N blade flats - probably from my strops, and caused the rusting. The tiny spots were removed with some toothpaste, which has microcrystalline abrasives in it, and have not returned with any amount of salty or acidic fluid contact, despite being in continuous use since then.

I think it may be possible that tiny particles of non rust resistant steel may adhere to the LC200N blade grinding striations during factory grinding and buffing operations, too.

I'd try some toothpaste or polishing paste on the spots. Based on my use of LC200N, I'm fairly confident it's not the blade itself rusting.

Interestingly, my Caribbean didn't have the issue at all during initial use, despite being sharpened, stropped and used in the same way.
Last edited by Cambertree on Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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sal
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Re: Spydiechef Rusted After First Use

Postby sal » Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:05 pm

Well, obviously this is new territory and we're all still learning. We know that LC is different from H1. We know that galvanic reaction from steel touching steel has its issues. We've also learned that heat treat affects corrosion resistance. We've earned that hardware close to steel has an effect. So I guess we're all involved in this "learning curve".

Hi Mark, The hardware was stainless and coated but we've not had enough history to know for sure. Our H1 pieces used the same hardware for years without issue. I remember when we changed the clip on the H1 pieces to Titan.

Naturally we're interested in all input, so thanx to all of you for your experience and sharing.

sal

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T_MAC686
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Re: Spydiechef Rusted After First Use

Postby T_MAC686 » Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:30 pm

I wonder if they finished the LC blades similar to the mirror stonewash finish on the Manix 2 LW if that would help decrease contamination issues? Less chance of material being stuck in grind lines?

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Re: Spydiechef Rusted After First Use

Postby ugaarguy » Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:53 pm

sal wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:20 pm
Hi Sharkfisher, BG-ThatsMe,

Thanx for calling that to my attention. I will alert management to the issue.

sal
What about the Tusk? It uses the same materials, and has a marlin spike. Are these now going be demoted out of the marine use category as well? What about all the SpydieChef owners who have the original "Product Information & Warranty Guide" inserts in their boxes, which state that our SpydieChefs are SALT series knives? It feels wrong to me to have marketed the knife as a Salt series knife for all these years and now reverse course.

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Cambertree
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Re: Spydiechef Rusted After First Use

Postby Cambertree » Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:37 am

T_MAC686 wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:30 pm
I wonder if they finished the LC blades similar to the mirror stonewash finish on the Manix 2 LW if that would help decrease contamination issues? Less chance of material being stuck in grind lines?
Yes, that would be my suggestion, too. Not sure about the stonewash, as the only Spydercos I’ve seen that on are the Maxamet blades, but definitely a smoother polish would probably help.

To those who are worrying about Salt/non-Salt status, I wouldn’t get too excited about it.

I don't want to speak for Sal, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say personally I think he may have misspoke (re: the Spydiechef not being a full Salt line model). We all make mistakes now and then, and he has dozens of new and in-development knives he is always focussing on.

There’s a bunch of knife models out there now in LC200N that demonstrate they are extremely corrosion resistant with very minimal maintenance.

The instances of odd issues with LC200N seem to either be galvanic corrosion (a Mule) or surface contamination with non stainless steel particles, which occasionally appears, then resolves itself in very early use, and doesn’t occur again.

Spydiechefs, Tusks, Autonomy 2s and Caribbeans have been used in extreme salt water conditions for extensive periods now, far beyond what a normal user would put their knives through.

It’s possible that this knife the OP asked about has a steel bearing - an issue which has since been fixed, and Spyderco will make right, if that’s the case. If it’s ceramic, it’s also possible it may be surface contamination residue from machining out the detent hole with a tool steel bit. The grinding contamination which occasionally shows up in initial use has been mentioned a few times, and once cleaned, doesn’t seem to evidence itself again, or progress any further.
Last edited by Cambertree on Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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curlyhairedboy
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Re: Spydiechef Rusted After First Use

Postby curlyhairedboy » Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:02 am

Based on the performance I've seen from LC200n, I believe it should remain in the salt series for sure.
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Re: Spydiechef Rusted After First Use

Postby The Meat man » Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:46 am

No rust on my Autonomy 2 blade after soaking it overnight in lemon juice.
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Re: Spydiechef Rusted After First Use

Postby RazorSharp86 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:20 am

Strange. I’ve had 3 Chefs (2 V.2 CQI and the most recent black screwed V3), and none demonstrated the slightest sign of rust.

It does look like the OP has the latest V.3 with black screws and ceramic detent, so contamination would be my guess.

Using some polishing compound and removing the rusty spots and doing the whole blade once-over would be a good idea- the OP can then take it to the same Envirotech that attributed to the rust and see if there are any signs of rust coming up, again.

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Re: Spydiechef Rusted After First Use

Postby phaust » Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:34 am

Not meant towards anyone in particular and not aimed at this thread as much as the others on LC200N and models using it, I'm sure why whether it is rustproof has ever even been a discussion point honestly (besides as brought up here, that Spyderco claims so in marketing material). The manufacturer itself says it's not rustproof, but of "superior corrosion resistance". That's from the data sheet. They have a corrosion resistance chart and all (and LC200N doesn't hit infinity :p). If it was rustproof, they'd sell it on that.

It also seemed very strange so much Spyderco material came out contradicting that. Also a bit alarming that it is a surprise to the company that differing hardnesses resulting in differing corrosion resistance, considering the manufacturer makes sure to mention hardness for each corrosion resistance, and it's not a thing unique to just this steel.

Edit, another line from the data sheet: "Compared to standard tool steels like 1.2316, 1.4112, and 1.4125 LC 200 N exhibits higher corrosion resistance". So it's better, not 100% corrosion resistant.
Last edited by phaust on Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Spydiechef Rusted After First Use

Postby curlyhairedboy » Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:42 am

it's my understanding that even H1 will corrode, given enough chlorine concentration.
Spyderco Collection: Always in Flux...
Southard, PITS, Shaman, CF S90v Shaman, Ikuchi, Amalgam, Spyderhawk H1, Squarehead LW, Smallfly G10, BD1N UKPK, Calendar Para 3 LW, CRUCARTA Shaman, Hawkbill Dragonfly 2 H1, Lil Native
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emanuel
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Re: Spydiechef Rusted After First Use

Postby emanuel » Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:33 am

LC200N and H1 can both rust in salt water under specific condition, they're not as immune as some people think they are, and there are countless pictures to prove it. Be it too much chlorine in the water, botched HT, chromium/nickel banding in the steel (none of these steels use powder metallurgy as their manufacturing process, they're poured into ingots in the traditional way, so they MIGHT not be as homogeneous based on batch), losing nitrogen during HT; this is what I can think of atm. I never had rust issues with these steels and I've been using them around salt water, mostly the Mediterranean Sea/Black Sea. There is definitely an issue with your knife, hopefully Sal will be able to help you more than us.

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Re: Spydiechef Rusted After First Use

Postby dsvirsky » Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:53 pm

curlyhairedboy wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:42 am
it's my understanding that even H1 will corrode, given enough chlorine concentration.
At that point we're no longer talking about rust, we're talking about the results of exposing the metal to hydrochloric acid. ;)


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