Sharpening stone suggestions?

[Pancake]

I have DMT X coarse with continuous surface and when that place dies I think I try Aroma. Venev looks very nice and I want to try it at some point .... But apart from K390 I don't have a lot of high vanadium steels, and I don't think that I am ruining my S30V with Spyderco medium stone.

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

Just received my Atoma 140 and 1200 last night that makes a complete set of 4.

Now just need to find the time:)

I was very impressed by the 400 and the 600 takes very little effort to remove steel and raise a bur on S90V.

I used them with water for reasons Cambertree elaborated on.

It does not have to be a mess all that is needed is a holder for the plate and a sink tray. Washed away the slurry simple as can be and no need to inhale things one should not anyway.

Not sure if others know this but.... HEY BLOKE!!!

You can get Atoma plates for the Hapstone7.

They are available from chefsknivestogo.com I have made two purchases with them now and they ship swiftly and for free.

Vivi The Atoma 140 is under $120.00 there. Edit: added link. https://www.chefknivestogo.com/search-r ... knivestogo

[vivi]

I've been doing a lot of reading and watching youtube videos and honestly it seems most of the negatives I hear about DMT come down to things that don't matter to me:

1. They stick to waterstones when lapping (I don't use stones that need lapped)
2. The fine and extra fine sometimes have larger grits embedded in them that can leave deep scratches (I'm looking at extra coarse....maybe a coarse, definitely not another fine)
3. Heavier than Atomas (who cares? it's going to live on my workbench)

For sharpening and reprofiling, rather than lapping, I'm still not convinced I should try the Atoma over a new DMT. The fact that they sell replacement grit sheets really makes me suspicious. My 10 year old DMT coarse and 15 year old DMT fine work wonderfully to this day, and I've read reviews where people felt the need to replace the Atoma surface after 2-3 years. I've reprofiled a few hundred knives with my DMT's, so they've been used more than most stones get used (Though they've never lapped).

After all my research I'm still leaning towards DMT.

Regarding water, anytime I've tried pouring some on my DMT's it seems to create extra mess with no benefit. Whenever I'm using a DMT stone for anything more than a quick touch-up, I keep a wet rag nearby and wipe off the knife the stone every minute or two. For me that keeps the stone fresh and cutting fast, while creating zero mess. In a lot of the youtube videos I watched on Atomas people had these complicated rigs with stone holders setup over a bin full of water with spray bottles and all this nonsense. When I sharpen with my DMT XC its literally a single stone by itself on a bench, maybe a wet rag. Nothing else. No stone holder...the rubber feet on the bottom of the stone keep it in place well enough for me.

No joke, some of the videos I see, people spend more time getting their equipment setup than I do sharpening. If I want to touch up my Manix right now I'll spend 15 seconds grabbing the knife and stone, 20 seconds getting situated at my desk with the equipment, about 1-2 minutes sharpening, checking the burr, finishing the edge, then another 20 seconds to break down. I like to keep it simple.

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

well I guess that settles that then DMT it is. Look forward to your next video using it.

[vivi]

well I guess that settles that then DMT it is. Look forward to your next video using it.

If I go with a larger DMT XC, which is likely, I'm extremely curious to compare the finish it leaves to my decade old one.

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/dmt ... t-16649961

This is one of the more interesting threads I found. Most were about lapping.

[Deadboxhero]

I've been doing a lot of reading and watching youtube videos and honestly it seems most of the negatives I hear about DMT come down to things that don't matter to me:

1. They stick to waterstones when lapping (I don't use stones that need lapped)
2. The fine and extra fine sometimes have larger grits embedded in them that can leave deep scratches (I'm looking at extra coarse....maybe a coarse, definitely not another fine)
3. Heavier than Atomas (who cares? it's going to live on my workbench)

For sharpening and reprofiling, rather than lapping, I'm still not convinced I should try the Atoma over a new DMT. The fact that they sell replacement grit sheets really makes me suspicious. My 10 year old DMT coarse and 15 year old DMT fine work wonderfully to this day, and I've read reviews where people felt the need to replace the Atoma surface after 2-3 years. I've reprofiled a few hundred knives with my DMT's, so they've been used more than most stones get used (Though they've never lapped).

After all my research I'm still leaning towards DMT.

Regarding water, anytime I've tried pouring some on my DMT's it seems to create extra mess with no benefit. Whenever I'm using a DMT stone for anything more than a quick touch-up, I keep a wet rag nearby and wipe off the knife the stone every minute or two. For me that keeps the stone fresh and cutting fast, while creating zero mess. In a lot of the youtube videos I watched on Atomas people had these complicated rigs with stone holders setup over a bin full of water with spray bottles and all this nonsense. When I sharpen with my DMT XC its literally a single stone by itself on a bench, maybe a wet rag. Nothing else. No stone holder...the rubber feet on the bottom of the stone keep it in place well enough for me.

No joke, some of the videos I see, people spend more time getting their equipment setup than I do sharpening. If I want to touch up my Manix right now I'll spend 15 seconds grabbing the knife and stone, 20 seconds getting situated at my desk with the equipment, about 1-2 minutes sharpening, checking the burr, finishing the edge, then another 20 seconds to break down. I like to keep it simple.

Try something new, get a venev 80/150.

Not sure why you are worried about dishing if you have gone as long as you have without wearing out a DMT you'll be fine.

[Pancake]

Well, if it's not broken, then why fix it. DMT are proven to be good stones with a lot of use amongst the sharpeners.
With today's bonded diamond stones they are a bit older technology, but if you are not looking for highly polished edge, then just why bother.
EDIT: I am really an average sharpener, so it's just my two € cents

[Deadboxhero]

Well, if it's not broken, then why fix it. DMT are proven to be good stones with a lot of use amongst the sharpeners.
With today's bonded diamond stones they are a bit older technology, but if you are not looking for highly polished edge, then just why bother.
EDIT: I am really an average sharpener, so it's just my two € cents

Something you'll just have to try to see if you like. Or not. No big deal. Those that sharpen for a living or make knives that are all sharpened by hand for living see the advantages.

That's why I bring stones and a sharpening set up every knife show. People need to experience things for themselves.

[vivi]

I've been doing a lot of reading and watching youtube videos and honestly it seems most of the negatives I hear about DMT come down to things that don't matter to me:

1. They stick to waterstones when lapping (I don't use stones that need lapped)
2. The fine and extra fine sometimes have larger grits embedded in them that can leave deep scratches (I'm looking at extra coarse....maybe a coarse, definitely not another fine)
3. Heavier than Atomas (who cares? it's going to live on my workbench)

For sharpening and reprofiling, rather than lapping, I'm still not convinced I should try the Atoma over a new DMT. The fact that they sell replacement grit sheets really makes me suspicious. My 10 year old DMT coarse and 15 year old DMT fine work wonderfully to this day, and I've read reviews where people felt the need to replace the Atoma surface after 2-3 years. I've reprofiled a few hundred knives with my DMT's, so they've been used more than most stones get used (Though they've never lapped).

After all my research I'm still leaning towards DMT.

Regarding water, anytime I've tried pouring some on my DMT's it seems to create extra mess with no benefit. Whenever I'm using a DMT stone for anything more than a quick touch-up, I keep a wet rag nearby and wipe off the knife the stone every minute or two. For me that keeps the stone fresh and cutting fast, while creating zero mess. In a lot of the youtube videos I watched on Atomas people had these complicated rigs with stone holders setup over a bin full of water with spray bottles and all this nonsense. When I sharpen with my DMT XC its literally a single stone by itself on a bench, maybe a wet rag. Nothing else. No stone holder...the rubber feet on the bottom of the stone keep it in place well enough for me.

No joke, some of the videos I see, people spend more time getting their equipment setup than I do sharpening. If I want to touch up my Manix right now I'll spend 15 seconds grabbing the knife and stone, 20 seconds getting situated at my desk with the equipment, about 1-2 minutes sharpening, checking the burr, finishing the edge, then another 20 seconds to break down. I like to keep it simple.

Try something new, get a venev 80/150.

Not sure why you are worried about dishing if you have gone as long as you have without wearing out a DMT you'll be fine.

What would be the advantages of the Venev vs the DMT?

This one, correct? https://www.amazon.com/Venev-Bonded-Dia ... B07NHZ4GN9

Dishing isn't something I enjoy doing, that's one reason I use the equipment I do.

If I were using the coarser side of that Venev to reprofile 2 knives per month, and used the other side to do, say, 10 sharpenings a month, any idea how long it'd take until they need flattening? And would my DMT XC work for that task?

I'd love the chance to try some of these stones before buying them. When I know I can get a proven solution for $60 it makes me hesitant to buy something for $100+ that may not perform better for me. But I'm interested in hearing the benefits of these other stones.

[Pancake]

Something you'll just have to try to see if you like. Or not. No big deal. Those that sharpen for a living or make knives that are all sharpened by hand for living see the advantages.

That's why I bring stones and a sharpening set up every knife show. People need to experience things for themselves.

Hey BBB, you are right about personal experience, and you are far more better sharpener then me.
Venev stones looks very interesting, but the taxes are kinda bad here....maybe one day I will buy one.

[Deadboxhero]

Give it a try and see, we never grow if we always do the same things.

If you lived closer to the knife shows I go to I'd recommend you come and see for yourself.
When you do, Don't dress or flatten them with diamond/CBN. Use SiC or AlOx

I've been doing a lot of reading and watching youtube videos and honestly it seems most of the negatives I hear about DMT come down to things that don't matter to me:

1. They stick to waterstones when lapping (I don't use stones that need lapped)
2. The fine and extra fine sometimes have larger grits embedded in them that can leave deep scratches (I'm looking at extra coarse....maybe a coarse, definitely not another fine)
3. Heavier than Atomas (who cares? it's going to live on my workbench)

For sharpening and reprofiling, rather than lapping, I'm still not convinced I should try the Atoma over a new DMT. The fact that they sell replacement grit sheets really makes me suspicious. My 10 year old DMT coarse and 15 year old DMT fine work wonderfully to this day, and I've read reviews where people felt the need to replace the Atoma surface after 2-3 years. I've reprofiled a few hundred knives with my DMT's, so they've been used more than most stones get used (Though they've never lapped).

After all my research I'm still leaning towards DMT.

Regarding water, anytime I've tried pouring some on my DMT's it seems to create extra mess with no benefit. Whenever I'm using a DMT stone for anything more than a quick touch-up, I keep a wet rag nearby and wipe off the knife the stone every minute or two. For me that keeps the stone fresh and cutting fast, while creating zero mess. In a lot of the youtube videos I watched on Atomas people had these complicated rigs with stone holders setup over a bin full of water with spray bottles and all this nonsense. When I sharpen with my DMT XC its literally a single stone by itself on a bench, maybe a wet rag. Nothing else. No stone holder...the rubber feet on the bottom of the stone keep it in place well enough for me.

No joke, some of the videos I see, people spend more time getting their equipment setup than I do sharpening. If I want to touch up my Manix right now I'll spend 15 seconds grabbing the knife and stone, 20 seconds getting situated at my desk with the equipment, about 1-2 minutes sharpening, checking the burr, finishing the edge, then another 20 seconds to break down. I like to keep it simple.

Try something new, get a venev 80/150.

Not sure why you are worried about dishing if you have gone as long as you have without wearing out a DMT you'll be fine.

What would be the advantages of the Venev vs the DMT?

This one, correct? https://www.amazon.com/Venev-Bonded-Dia ... B07NHZ4GN9

Dishing isn't something I enjoy doing, that's one reason I use the equipment I do.

If I were using the coarser side of that Venev to reprofile 2 knives per month, and used the other side to do, say, 10 sharpenings a month, any idea how long it'd take until they need flattening? And would my DMT XC work for that task?

I'd love the chance to try some of these stones before buying them. When I know I can get a proven solution for $60 it makes me hesitant to buy something for $100+ that may not perform better for me. But I'm interested in hearing the benefits of these other stones.

[Deadboxhero]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07SS3G1 ... B072HSS5J9

Pocket size is cheaper.

[vivi]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07SS3G1 ... B072HSS5J9

Pocket size is cheaper.

Well I'll order one of those, I had a knife I planned to order this week anyways. I'll hold off on the full size stone until I've gotten to try the pocket Venev out on a few different steels to see if I like the sharpening response it offers.

Thanks for the help. I've been reading a lot of your old posts here and on BF as I research. You're a very informative person to have around.

[Pelagic]

DMT makes a 120 grit plate as well.

[Bloke]

Hey Vivi, if you’re using a wet rag to wipe down you DMT plate as you sharpen you won’t need to do any more using a Venev. I use Windex to wet the stone while sharpening and wipe it clean as required with a damp rag so no real difference there.

On flattening the Venev’s, they’re like the vast majority of abrasives on the market, they don’t come dead flat. In my experience all new stones benefit from an initial flattening as it breaks the production surface and allows the stone to do its thing.

I’ve used conventional sprayed on diamond abrasive of different flavours for at least three decades and I don’t think you can truly compare them apples to apples to the bonded diamond abrasives.

I’m also inclined to think asking how long they will last reprofiling “X” amount of knives is like asking “How long’s a bit of string”? :)

Anyhow, for comparison, here’s a double sided 80grit Diamond/100grit CBN gifted to me by Constantine from Gritomatic, a CBN I bought from Hapstone in the Ukraine and a Diamond from Gritomatic. Having had a look at the compound on all three hones with a 10x loupe there’s nothing to indicate the abrasive is not consistent throughout though you can see the thickness of the compound does vary.



Anyhow, all said, you’re welcome to your sprayed on diamond plates, but personally having used the bonded Venev’s for a few years now I won’t be going back to lumpy sprayed on abrasives in any hurry.

[vivi]

Bloke, thanks for the images. Hopefully the pocket stone impresses me enough to try their larger stones. If not, I'll still find a use for it as a field sharpener I'm sure.

DMT makes a 120 grit plate as well.

I had one of those, they're a beast for reprofiling but a bit coarser than I want for a finishing stone.

[Bloke]

You're most welcome Vivi!

I can't help but think you'll like your new hone. :)

[Cambertree]

Vivi, I think the replaceable plates are offered for the Atomas simply because they’re primarily sold in Japan as stone flattening tools, which causes much greater wear than just sharpening knives with them.

I don’t think they would necessarily wear any more than DMTs, all other things being equal.

I’ll be interested to hear what you think of the Venev pocket stone. I often use them held in my hand Michael Christy/BBB style.

Also you could get one of the double sided 6”x 1” OCB stones plus a couple of jars of SiC powder for about $50.

I’d be interested to hear what the other members think, but I like the feedback of the OCB stones much more than the standard ones.

https://www.gritomatic.com/products/6-x ... 2045499501

https://www.gritomatic.com/collections/ ... ide-powder

Also, I get my Atoma plates from a place in Kyoto - they’re a fair bit cheaper than $120. PM me if anyone wants a reference.

Oh, and regarding water, just a light mist with a spray bottle works fine. :)

[JD Spydo]

I've now mentioned 3M diamond stones and Norton Diamond stones here and BF both and I find it astounding that no one has heard of either one of these manufacturers :confused: I always thought that NORTON was kind of a household name for sharpening stones :confused:

Now I will admit before I got some 3M diamond sharpening tools that I didn't know they made anything like that?? Both are big companies and both have a huge selection of abrasive products but yet no one talks about them :confused:

Both my 3M and NORTON diamond stones are very high quality but yet no comments on 3 different forums I've brought them up on :confused:

[JD Spydo]

Another brand of ceramic sharpening stone that I've seen on websites and in catalogs are the "GLOBAL" brand. I've yet to talk to anyone who has used them. However I find it difficult to believe that anyone makes a better ceramic sharpening stone than Spyderco does.

I haven't yet bought any Spyderco sharpening tool that I've been disappointed with.

For finishing especially I've yet to find many stones I like better than Spyderco's. However I've yet to try the super fine Shapton stones which I plan on getting at some point. Albeit I don't hear as much bragging about those Shapton stones as I used to. But I've heard that their stones that are 8000 grit and higher are superb.