Sharpening stone suggestions?

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AccountDeletedUserRequest
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Sharpening stone suggestions?

Postby AccountDeletedUserRequest » Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:24 am

Right now I mainly use two pieces of sharpening equipment. My DMT 6" Extra Coarse diamond plate, and a sharpmaker with diamond, medium, fine and ultrafine rods (never use F or UF).

I originally bought the DMT for reprofiling, and its worked great aside from being a bit small.

Recently I've discovered it gives my knives really sharp and toothy edges, so its become my main sharpening stone for PE knives.

I thought about buying a new DMT Extra Coarse to use solely for sharpening rather than reprofiling. Since mine is on the short side, so I thought I'd go with the 11" size. That'll be nice for chef knives etc.

However, in the ten years its been since I bought my last DMT stone, there are a lot more options when it comes to diamond stones.

While I'm 100% sure the DMT stone I picked out will fill the role I am buying it for very well, and I will be completely satisfied, I wanted to weigh my options.

Which diamond stones in the 250-600 grit, 8-12 inch long range would you suggest I look at?

Under $120....the DMT is only about $60 and I know it will give me great results.

I've been enjoying low grit edges a lot more than finer finishes lately. For the past couple of years I was finishing with the medium Spyderco bench stone, but I find lower grits working better for me. Looking for a good go to bench stone that can tackle any steel and never need flattening.
Last edited by AccountDeletedUserRequest on Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Evil D
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Re: Sharpening stone suggestions?

Postby Evil D » Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:28 am

I like Congress and Shapton. Congress for lower grit and Shapton for high.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
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Re: Sharpening stone suggestions?

Postby AccountDeletedUserRequest » Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:30 am

Evil D wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:28 am
I like Congress and Shapton. Congress for lower grit and Shapton for high.
Did shapton start making diamond stones?

I'm not interested in anything over 600 grit for this application.

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Re: Sharpening stone suggestions?

Postby Evil D » Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:33 am

Vivi wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:30 am
Evil D wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:28 am
I like Congress and Shapton. Congress for lower grit and Shapton for high.
Did shapton start making diamond stones?

I'm not interested in anything over 600 grit for this application.

Oh I misunderstood I didn't know you were looking specifically for diamonds. I've had some Aromas for my Edge Pro that were pretty awesome but I'm not sure if they make bench stones.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
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Re: Sharpening stone suggestions?

Postby blues » Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:56 am

Withdrawn since the bonded diamond hones need occasional leveling.
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Re: Sharpening stone suggestions?

Postby Pelagic » Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:44 am

To be clear, this is for sharpening or reprofiling? A sharpening stone won't need to be flattened as much (and if so, breifly) if you have a dedicated reprofiling stone or plate. Pretty soon I'm going to get an Atoma 140 as well as a 400. I believe reprofiling with the Atoma 140 will make all my coarse grit hones last much longer.
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Re: Sharpening stone suggestions?

Postby AccountDeletedUserRequest » Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:31 am

Pelagic wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:44 am
To be clear, this is for sharpening or reprofiling? A sharpening stone won't need to be flattened as much (and if so, breifly) if you have a dedicated reprofiling stone or plate. Pretty soon I'm going to get an Atoma 140 as well as a 400. I believe reprofiling with the Atoma 140 will make all my coarse grit hones last much longer.
I am buying it for sharpening, but I'll probably use it for both. I plan to reprofile a few knives on it to break it in if nothing else.

I don't use sharpening equipment that requires flattening. Some might think that's silly but for 20 years I've avoided having to flatten stones and I like it that way.

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Re: Sharpening stone suggestions?

Postby AccountDeletedUserRequest » Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:31 am

blues wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:56 am
Withdrawn since the bonded diamond hones need occasional leveling.
I almost bought some used Venev's before I realized this.

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Re: Sharpening stone suggestions?

Postby VashHash » Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:27 am

DMT all the way. I've had very good results with their products. I've been using the same pocket stone for about 10 years and it's still going strong.

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Re: Sharpening stone suggestions?

Postby JonLeBlanc » Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:34 am

Doesn't DMT make some nice diamond plates? I think I've seen them on Michael Christy's videos and they looked nice.
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Re: Sharpening stone suggestions?

Postby Pelagic » Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:46 pm

JonLeBlanc wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:34 am
Doesn't DMT make some nice diamond plates? I think I've seen them on Michael Christy's videos and they looked nice.
Yeah, they're good. They cut well and last long under light pressure. The distribution of diamonds is less uniform on DMT versus Atoma though. Below 1200, people have seen small clusters of diamonds on DMT plates as well. But they produce a great edge nonetheless. I'm just curious a Atoma's lifespan.
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Re: Sharpening stone suggestions?

Postby AccountDeletedUserRequest » Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:55 pm

I'm tempted to try Atoma but I know the DMT will last me a minimum of a decade.

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Re: Sharpening stone suggestions?

Postby JD Spydo » Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:08 pm

Hey Vivi I put this up on your other thread too. But I have a couple of diamond sharpening stones made by the 3M company. I got them at a knife show from the booth of Texas Knifemaker's Supply a while back. The two I've got are coarse and extra-coarse and I've had really good results with them. The only drawback is that they recommend you to use them wet ( preferably with water) which can be a bit messy at times. But they seem to do really uniform cutting angles and the scratch patterns are very close and consistent.

I also got a complete set of WoodWorkers diamond files also made by 3M. I've had great luck with both sharpening tools but oddly enough I don't hear anyone else talking about them :confused: I've brought them up on Bladeforums and about 3 other knife related forums I lurk on but yet I don't run into anyone else that has used them. They weren't cheap either I paid about $65 for the coarse and about $70 for the extra coarse. And I've had them about 10 years now.

They are just a bit smaller than I would like them to be. The benchstones are 2 inches X 6 inches. I mainly just do folders but the other day I did a complete sharpening with my TEMPERANCE 1 plain edged unit and it reprofiled it really nicely. I do plan on checking out these Atoma diamond stones. I've really heard nothing but good about them.

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Re: Sharpening stone suggestions?

Postby Bloke » Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:11 pm

Vivi wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:31 am
blues wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:56 am
Withdrawn since the bonded diamond hones need occasional leveling.
I almost bought some used Venev's before I realized this.
I don't think flattening should deter you. They wear very slowly, cut much "nicer" than traditional sprayed on diamonds and flattening them is dead easy. :)
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Re: Sharpening stone suggestions?

Postby Baron Mind » Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:12 pm

It's still dmt, atoma, or bonded diamond stones, and bonded diamond in bench sizes remain quite limited. Luckily I prefer to freehand on edge pro sized stones, so I have a plethora of options.

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Re: Sharpening stone suggestions?

Postby prndltech » Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:33 pm

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/atoma325400pad.html

I know it’s out of stock at the moment but I’d recommend the Atoma 400, you can always get replacement pads in different grits. It’s only the top layer, they’re removable (magnetic) if you didn’t already know that. Sorry I didn’t read the rest of the thread!
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Re: Sharpening stone suggestions?

Postby Cambertree » Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:40 am

Bloke wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:11 pm
Vivi wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:31 am
blues wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:56 am
Withdrawn since the bonded diamond hones need occasional leveling.
I almost bought some used Venev's before I realized this.
I don't think flattening should deter you. They wear very slowly, cut much "nicer" than traditional sprayed on diamonds and flattening them is dead easy. :)
I second Bloke’s advice.

I like reading your sharpening experiments Vivi, and I really think you’d like the new 240/400 FEPA-F Venev stone with the new OCB binder.

I’m still conducting experiments with my Atoma set as final edgesetting stones. One thing you may find with the 140 and 400 Atomas is that they perhaps might not deliver as crisp an edge as the DMTs, as the diamonds are distributed in little piles of raised braille like dots. So they cut very fast, and allow slurry to wash away very well, but it may be they need an extremely light touch to get as crisp an edge as the DMTs, which are only a single layer of abrasive.

I usually use the Atomas to shape, and the Venevs to finish with.

I got the new OCB binder Venev stones in the pocketstone size to play with, and they do have much better feedback than the original Venevs. You could also get the 6”x 1” stone to play with before committing to a full size benchstone purchase.

Flattening is only required very infrequently, and the bottles of SIC carbide powder are cheap and useful for other sharpening experiments. In fact I’ve never flattened mine, since initially lapping them when I first got them.

I’d seriously encourage you to check out the Venev 240/400 OCB binder stone (along with the 220 and 320 grit SiC powder jars).

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Re: Sharpening stone suggestions?

Postby AccountDeletedUserRequest » Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:56 am

Cambertree wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:40 am
Bloke wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:11 pm
Vivi wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:31 am
blues wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:56 am
Withdrawn since the bonded diamond hones need occasional leveling.
I almost bought some used Venev's before I realized this.
I don't think flattening should deter you. They wear very slowly, cut much "nicer" than traditional sprayed on diamonds and flattening them is dead easy. :)
I second Bloke’s advice.

I like reading your sharpening experiments Vivi, and I really think you’d like the new 240/400 FEPA-F Venev stone with the new OCB binder.

I’m still conducting experiments with my Atoma set as final edgesetting stones. One thing you may find with the 140 and 400 Atomas is that they perhaps might not deliver as crisp an edge as the DMTs, as the diamonds are distributed in little piles of raised braille like dots. So they cut very fast, and allow slurry to wash away very well, but it may be they need an extremely light touch to get as crisp an edge as the DMTs, which are only a single layer of abrasive.

I usually use the Atomas to shape, and the Venevs to finish with.

I got the new OCB binder Venev stones in the pocketstone size to play with, and they do have much better feedback than the original Venevs. You could also get the 6”x 1” stone to play with before committing to a full size benchstone purchase.

Flattening is only required very infrequently, and the bottles of SIC carbide powder are cheap and useful for other sharpening experiments. In fact I’ve never flattened mine, since initially lapping them when I first got them.

I’d seriously encourage you to check out the Venev 240/400 OCB binder stone (along with the 220 and 320 grit SiC powder jars).
Thanks for the information. I'm trying to do more reading on Venev's.

One thing has me confused. The diamond layer is only 1mm thick, yet they say it should last linger than a DMT? If they wear enough that flattening them is a thing, and the diamond layer is only 1mm thick, how is that going to last a decade of sharpening?

Also FWIW I've always used my stones dry. All my stones. Along with flattening stones I couldn't imagine having to lube my stones. I like the lack of mess and setup sharpening on a single dry stone offers.

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Re: Sharpening stone suggestions?

Postby Cambertree » Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:27 am

Vivi wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:56 am
Thanks for the information. I'm trying to do more reading on Venev's.

One thing has me confused. The diamond layer is only 1mm thick, yet they say it should last linger than a DMT? If they wear enough that flattening them is a thing, and the diamond layer is only 1mm thick, how is that going to last a decade of sharpening?

Also FWIW I've always used my stones dry. All my stones. Along with flattening stones I couldn't imagine having to lube my stones. I like the lack of mess and setup sharpening on a single dry stone offers.
No worries, Vivi. :)

I’ve wondered the same thing about the 1mm thick abrasive layer and what bearing it would have on stone longevity.

The layer of binder is actually 2-3mm thick on my examples, although I couldn’t say if the density of abrasive is consistent throughout. It may be that 1mm is just a minimum guaranteed thickness.

The binder is very hard - I’ve used mine a lot over about a year so far, and as I said, I’ve never had to re true the surface after the initial lapping.

Even 1mm of depth is 1000 microns thick. So if we’re talking FEPA-F 240 grit particles, they’re still less than 50 microns, so there’s at least 20 completely fresh layers of diamond abrasive in that amount of thickness.

If we’re talking about FEPA-F 800 grit at about 6 microns, then there’s over 160 layers of fresh abrasive.

FEPA-F 1200 grit at about 2.5 microns will give at least 400 layers of fresh abrasive.

The DMTs just have the one layer, and as they wear in, some of the oversize diamonds pop out of the nickel matrix, and some fracture a little until they are more consistent in surface finish.

As far as the claim that the Venev bonded diamond stones should last longer than a DMT plate, I can’t speak to the accuracy of that. I can only guess that the above dynamic might have something to do with it.

In terms of lubrication, it is recommended to use a light spritz of water. They don’t build a slurry though, like alumina waterstones do.

I use a little water or Windex on my ceramics and diamond plates anyway. I don’t find it makes much of a mess, and I do it for the minor lubricating benefit and to damp down any microscopic grit and steel alloy particles, which I don’t want to breathe into my lungs.

So yeah, you can’t really get away from the minimal water usage.

Also, the more expensive Naniwa diamond waterstones also only have a 1mm diamond layer, and you can bet they are made to last a good amount of time.

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Re: Sharpening stone suggestions?

Postby Albatross » Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:54 am

Vivi wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:56 am
Also FWIW I've always used my stones dry. All my stones. Along with flattening stones I couldn't imagine having to lube my stones. I like the lack of mess and setup sharpening on a single dry stone offers.
I've use a DMT Duosharp 8"(which is my recommendation) for the last 8 years, most of that time it was used dry. A splash of water slows the buildup on the plates, which allows them to cut for longer between cleanings. This helps when reprofiling steels like S30V and sharpening most high wear resistance steels. I sharpen on a desk, next to my laptop, with a little water, and there hasn't been a mess beyond what is on the plate and knife blade. Just enough water to make the surface wet and keep the plate from loading. A paper towel or napkin comes in handy for wiping the blade to check progress or for cleaning the plate, before moving on. Might be worth a try.

The 8" has been more than enough for 8-10" kitchen knives, and it's very similar in size to the Norton whetstone stone I have, which is commonly used(not by me) for kitchen knives. This, along with a 1 micron strop, are all I have been using for my folding knives. Kitchen knives get some extra steps, with higher grit stones, up to 8k, but that's another topic.

The interrupted surface on the Duosharp plate I own, has been great. The plates do wear a little faster, since there's dead space between the clusters of diamonds, even still, I wouldn't say they wear fast at all. When I first got the Duosharp, I made the rookie mistake of pressing too hard while sharpening, which wore out(ripped out) the diamonds along the edges of the plate, as well as some in the center. Somehow, it has lasted this long, despite the abuse it took early on. With proper use, I expect them to last even longer.

The plate I have is double-sided, with coarse grit on one side and fine on the other, and came with a plastic base, which can be adjusted to fit the larger plates as well. Overall, it's a good setup, especially for less than $100.
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