The low grit sharpening thread

[TkoK83Spy]

I still flip flop on my edges. I love seeing hairs just fly off my arm after using my spyderco fine stone, but the aggressive cutting of a 320 grit edge is just SO addictive! Sometimes I compromise and use a 1200 grit diamond edge.

It's all good though, and it's fun to practice and get better at sharpening regardless.

Absolutely! Sometimes I'll go with a low grit and then try UF stones and strop to finish the apex, other times I'll stop right at the low grit stone. I've found experimenting with finishes and sharpening in general, have become my favorite part of the hobby!

[soc_monki]

I still flip flop on my edges. I love seeing hairs just fly off my arm after using my spyderco fine stone, but the aggressive cutting of a 320 grit edge is just SO addictive! Sometimes I compromise and use a 1200 grit diamond edge.

It's all good though, and it's fun to practice and get better at sharpening regardless.

Absolutely! Sometimes I'll go with a low grit and then try UF stones and strop to finish the apex, other times I'll stop right at the low grit stone. I've found experimenting with finishes and sharpening in general, have become my favorite part of the hobby!

Especially being at work supporting testing. I twiddle my thumbs all day for 10 hours! So I use the time to sharpen knives that may need it, or to try out different finishes. People probably think I'm nuts... Lol

[u.w.]

Got this knife yesterday early afternoon. Put my own edge on it, and it is Super Toothy / Grabby, just how I have come to very much like my edges.
That's a HF yellow plastic/diamond plate 260 grit edge with the very lightest of light strokes on my blue DMT 325 to de-burr. While it effortlessly pops hairs off my arm, it also GRABS :-)




I'm agreement with vivi on "the feeling kinda under knifed" if I don't have something with my own edge (a low grit edge) on it.


u.w.

..... and those little red things are hybrid bird/reaper peppers :-)

[Paraguy]

No thanks... I need my knife to comfortably shave my unibrow.

[Paraguy]

It seems that different steels perform better then others when at a low grit. Correct? What about D2?

[u.w.]

No thanks... I need my knife to comfortably shave my unibrow.

LOL!

:-)

there's always...



the Laze-ur...




on another note,

Thank you to Shawn (BBB), vivi, and others for mentioning USB microscopes & where to get one. I swung on by where vivi mentioned and grabbed one of those plugable 250x ones, and it showed up this afternoon. The lighting of the edge bevel / apex is a little fiddlee, but I'm sure I'll get that sorted out as I use it more.

Here's that same 260 grit edge, but after cutting up a neighborhood street-side trashcan worth of vines, branches, and saplings. Still very grabby, and while not seemingly effortlessly popping hairs off my arm any longer - it does still shave them, just not so much as "effortlessly".





u.w.

[Wartstein]

This thread really deserves a bump anyway (will be interesting or even enlightening for folks who missed it or are new here).
[EDIT: Just saw that there are some very recent posts here anyway]

So just an anecdotal remark:

I am not exactly purely pragmatic when it comes to Spyderco folders . but I AM when it comes to sharpening:
I am - compared to many, many here - not really good at it, but sufficient enough for what one realistically needs in an do it all EDC folder for various tasks.
I almost exclusively use a sharpmaker and aim for nothing "more" than that the knife cuts phonebookpaper easily or shaves hair effortless and without hang ups (no "hair splitting/whittling" sharpness here. Could probably not achieve it with my skills anyway).

I just touched up my REX 45 Manix 2 LW and suddenly realized, that inspired by this thread in a majority of sharpenings (of any Spydie, not just the Manix) I just use my CBN rods and stop there... in my personal use this seems to be a real "win win":
- Safes time
- Subjectively I feel the knife stays sharp longer
- The "low grit edge" actually works better in many (not in all) tasks - more "SE like"
- In things like whittling (talked about in this thread) I can´t perceive a substantial difference to a more polished edge in the stuff I tend to whittle (no tiny figurines or the like - just some pointy stick or making a branch more rectangular which makes for a better base for feather sticks with my technique)

I have a work sharp field sharpener, one of its plates seems to be even lower in grit than the CBN rods of the SM:
I´ll go and try to sharpen on just this plate for some time - might be worth it.

[TkoK83Spy]

Finally finished this up last night after butchering the clip side edge while free handing on my DMT stones while watching football a couple weekends ago.

I decided to set it up on the Precision Adjust and went to work on the 320 grit at 15 dps. It took quite a while, as I'm sure that grit is no longer as coarse as it once was, but I was in no rush. I then decided to use the 600 grit option and gave each side 50 passes, lately I've stopped at the 320 grit, but wanted to switch things up little. I'm honestly not sure if those 50 passes even really made a difference. I then raised the angle to 16.5 degrees and give it a few passes, also something I don't normally do.

It's a very sharp and coarse edge, ready for battle!

Documented in my dorky spread sheet I've made for all my knives I've sharpened

[bleasure]

Ok, I've read this thread front to back, and it's been sort of relieving as well as informative. I'm not an especially good freehand sharpener, though I've progressed to the point that I can get my knives, whether 1095, S30V, Cru-Wear, or ~mystery Henckels,~ back to shaving sharp from can-barely-cut-paper / ersatz tomato masher. God knows what angle I'm putting on them, it's entirely something I've learned to feel more than measure, but it seems to work reasonably well. That said, I've felt like the curve on learning how to maintain my knives *well* (by whatever perfectionist definition), beyond what I can already do, was going to present some seriously diminishing returns re: time, effort, pleasure, money etc. So this all is reassuring and takes some of background "I'll have to learn/spend this one day" pressure off.

Here's my question for you: in your estimation(s), is what I've planned out below an effective approach *in general* for whatever knife I pocket on a given day, assuming ~4% vanadium high carbide volume and descending in both through various steels, which would cover most of what I ordinarily take with me.

I've got a SM in the mail. I've ordered a couple 1/2" Congress moldmaster silicon carbide triangle stones in 400 grit, bc it was roughly equivalent to the diamond SM rods on that universal grit chart everybody uses, and bc I don't have an extra $100-$5000 for diamond tools at the moment.

I plan to
1. Polish the whole edge up to 30 inclusive through the fine stones & stropping. I'll use that til it's done, and reprofile with the 400 grit/micron/wtv Congress stones to a 40 degee apex with a comparatively polished 30 degree back bevel.
2. I will *slightly* refine that on the brown stones, aiming to retain the toothiness while uniforming things a bit
3. I will strop with puritan moderation, using a diamond compound, maybe a chaste 5 microns or so in size

Have I erred in not having diamond throughout if I want to sharpen higher vanadium carbide steels without major tearout, or is this a functional setup to achieve, roughly, the kinds of edges discussed here? Should I even just skip the medium stones, strop, and call it a day?

[soc_monki]

Ok, I've read this thread front to back, and it's been sort of relieving as well as informative. I'm not an especially good freehand sharpener, though I've progressed to the point that I can get my knives, whether 1095, S30V, Cru-Wear, or ~mystery Henckels,~ back to shaving sharp from can-barely-cut-paper / ersatz tomato masher. God knows what angle I'm putting on them, it's entirely something I've learned to feel more than measure, but it seems to work reasonably well. That said, I've felt like the curve on learning how to maintain my knives *well* (by whatever perfectionist definition), beyond what I can already do, was going to present some seriously diminishing returns re: time, effort, pleasure, money etc. So this all is reassuring and takes some of background "I'll have to learn/spend this one day" pressure off.

Here's my question for you: in your estimation(s), is what I've planned out below an effective approach *in general* for whatever knife I pocket on a given day, assuming ~4% vanadium high carbide volume and descending in both through various steels, which would cover most of what I ordinarily take with me.

I've got a SM in the mail. I've ordered a couple 1/2" Congress moldmaster silicon carbide triangle stones in 400 grit, bc it was roughly equivalent to the diamond SM rods on that universal grit chart everybody uses, and bc I don't have an extra $100-$5000 for diamond tools at the moment.

I plan to
1. Polish the whole edge up to 30 inclusive through the fine stones & stropping. I'll use that til it's done, and reprofile with the 400 grit/micron/wtv Congress stones to a 40 degee apex with a comparatively polished 30 degree back bevel.
2. I will *slightly* refine that on the brown stones, aiming to retain the toothiness while uniforming things a bit
3. I will strop with puritan moderation, using a diamond compound, maybe a chaste 5 microns or so in size

Have I erred in not having diamond throughout if I want to sharpen higher vanadium carbide steels without major tearout, or is this a functional setup to achieve, roughly, the kinds of edges discussed here? Should I even just skip the medium stones, strop, and call it a day?

Don't even worry about tearout. It is not an issue, even if people say it is. In normal everyday tasks you would never know, and the carbides are being scooped away with the matrix steel until you get down to the submicron level anyway. I never do, and never worry, and I have no problems.

I've found steels like S30v, cruwear, and m390 do fine when taken up to spyderco fine stones. They still have that grabby feeling at the apex and the edge lasts for me. However, Ymmv, and you should try a few different things to find what you like and what works for you. I tried the moldmaster stones and I wasn't impressed with them. To me, spyderco diamond rods work great on the sharpmaker, and quickly as well. It's a great finish, and if you just use that and do a microbevel with the browns, that's all I'd ever need honestly!

I've gone almost fully freehand though. I use diamonds for reprofiling and general edges. 220 grit or 320 grit generally, with some refinement with the brown ceramic. If I'm using something like a 1095 knife, I'll go all the way to fine. Those type of steels love that finish.

When it comes to something like s90v however, I find going with more refinement just doesn't work for me. 220 or 320 grit makes a great toothy edge that just annihilates materials, but I like to do just a few swipes on the spyderco brown. I think I did 4 or 6 (2-3 per side) on my custom benchmade Griptilian with s90v, and it's sick. My Native Chief in s90v got touched up on my extra fine diamond stone, but I'll probably drop it back to 320 and a few swipes on the medium as well.

I found taking s90v to fine and a somewhat polished edge just... Doesn't feel right. I can make it pop hairs but it just has no grabbiness or aggression. But S30v or m390 still does. All are burr free and have good clean apexes (checked under loupe).

I would be completely happy with just my 220 grit diamond plate and a spyderco medium stone for pretty much all steels. Simple and effective.

[bleasure]

Don't even worry about tearout. It is not an issue, even if people say it is. In normal everyday tasks you would never know, and the carbides are being scooped away with the matrix steel until you get down to the submicron level anyway. I never do, and never worry, and I have no problems.

I've found steels like S30v, cruwear, and m390 do fine when taken up to spyderco fine stones. They still have that grabby feeling at the apex and the edge lasts for me. However, Ymmv, and you should try a few different things to find what you like and what works for you. I tried the moldmaster stones and I wasn't impressed with them. To me, spyderco diamond rods work great on the sharpmaker, and quickly as well. It's a great finish, and if you just use that and do a microbevel with the browns, that's all I'd ever need honestly!

I've gone almost fully freehand though. I use diamonds for reprofiling and general edges. 220 grit or 320 grit generally, with some refinement with the brown ceramic. If I'm using something like a 1095 knife, I'll go all the way to fine. Those type of steels love that finish.

When it comes to something like s90v however, I find going with more refinement just doesn't work for me. 220 or 320 grit makes a great toothy edge that just annihilates materials, but I like to do just a few swipes on the spyderco brown. I think I did 4 or 6 (2-3 per side) on my custom benchmade Griptilian with s90v, and it's sick. My Native Chief in s90v got touched up on my extra fine diamond stone, but I'll probably drop it back to 320 and a few swipes on the medium as well.

I found taking s90v to fine and a somewhat polished edge just... Doesn't feel right. I can make it pop hairs but it just has no grabbiness or aggression. But S30v or m390 still does. All are burr free and have good clean apexes (checked under loupe).

I would be completely happy with just my 220 grit diamond plate and a spyderco medium stone for pretty much all steels. Simple and effective.

thanks for this, I really appreciate it. though you've made me regret the moldmasters! can you say anything about why they didn't hit you well?

I love the simple approach you and others are recommending here though, it makes sense to me in an almost visceral way beyond just being less cost and time intensive.

the perfectionist in me is still worried about ~not treating the carbides right/maximizing the steel's potential~ but I hear you. if anybody else wants to chime in and tell me this'll be fine and/or share their feelings about carbides I wouldn't stop you though.

[soc_monki]

Don't even worry about tearout. It is not an issue, even if people say it is. In normal everyday tasks you would never know, and the carbides are being scooped away with the matrix steel until you get down to the submicron level anyway. I never do, and never worry, and I have no problems.

I've found steels like S30v, cruwear, and m390 do fine when taken up to spyderco fine stones. They still have that grabby feeling at the apex and the edge lasts for me. However, Ymmv, and you should try a few different things to find what you like and what works for you. I tried the moldmaster stones and I wasn't impressed with them. To me, spyderco diamond rods work great on the sharpmaker, and quickly as well. It's a great finish, and if you just use that and do a microbevel with the browns, that's all I'd ever need honestly!

I've gone almost fully freehand though. I use diamonds for reprofiling and general edges. 220 grit or 320 grit generally, with some refinement with the brown ceramic. If I'm using something like a 1095 knife, I'll go all the way to fine. Those type of steels love that finish.

When it comes to something like s90v however, I find going with more refinement just doesn't work for me. 220 or 320 grit makes a great toothy edge that just annihilates materials, but I like to do just a few swipes on the spyderco brown. I think I did 4 or 6 (2-3 per side) on my custom benchmade Griptilian with s90v, and it's sick. My Native Chief in s90v got touched up on my extra fine diamond stone, but I'll probably drop it back to 320 and a few swipes on the medium as well.

I found taking s90v to fine and a somewhat polished edge just... Doesn't feel right. I can make it pop hairs but it just has no grabbiness or aggression. But S30v or m390 still does. All are burr free and have good clean apexes (checked under loupe).

I would be completely happy with just my 220 grit diamond plate and a spyderco medium stone for pretty much all steels. Simple and effective.

thanks for this, I really appreciate it. though you've made me regret the moldmasters! can you say anything about why they didn't hit you well?

I love the simple approach you and others are recommending here though, it makes sense to me in an almost visceral way beyond just being less cost and time intensive.

the perfectionist in me is still worried about ~not treating the carbides right/maximizing the steel's potential~ but I hear you. if anybody else wants to chime in and tell me this'll be fine and/or share their feelings about carbides I wouldn't stop you though.

Don't regret the moldmaster stones! They work well for many people. I think I need to give them another shot, because I tried using them when I was new to sharpening and have learned a lot since. I could probably put them to better use now. I preferred my sharpmaker diamond stones back then, but now I'm pretty much all freehand. I still prefer diamonds, simply because I don't have to use any lubricant so there is less mess and less setup. Personal preference! Plus, using a coarse or extra coarse diamond stone, then lightly refining on a spyderco medium, is quick, easy, effective, and leaves a toothy edge that grabs hard and slices through pretty much anything. It's efficient, and that's good enough for me!

At these levels of sharpening, carbides are no issue. You would have to go so far with such low micron abrasives before you get to where you cut the carbides themselves. I can whittle thick hair (facial hair) with my edges, and shave my arms bare. My edges last a long time too... So I have no worries that my knives aren't sharp enough for any task!

No harm in doing different things and trying different stones and methods out. It's all fun, it's all a learning experience, and if you find something that works for you that's part of the journey and part of the hobby. I'm kind of lazy, and just a couple stones work for me! Lol

[Stuart Ackerman]

Experiments teach us new things...some fail, some delight.

I still find that 400 grit for a Serrata is the finest one should go, and I use 220 for my own ones in the kitchen, especially when slicing and dicing meat of any sort.

But, hey!
Carry on experimenting. :)

[SaltyCaribbeanDfly]

Hey vivi-great tutorial..direct and to the point...you remind me of my shop teacher in high school...definitely gonna try this as I have been using a little workshop sharpener(nice but small)...kinda new to the “real” knife world but my favorite two knives are the siren and carribbean and I think it’d be easier sharpening on something bigger...definitely gonna be a lot of trial & error but gotta try it...btw-saw ur post on the siren -that’s why I got it-it’s my hunting fishing hiking camping sidekick...have a good one

[BeggarSo]

This morning I pulled out my Bento Box Shop Exclusive Blue Spyderco Military in S90V and gave it 10 strokes per side on the Spydeco Gauntlet using the CBN Rods.

This knife is one I learned allot about sharpening on and was taken down to a legitimate 10 Degrees per side using multiple systems to get there including free hand reprofiling and the use of a Ken Onion belt grinder and ending with the TSPROF Blitz for the final angle cube verified dimensions after first stone washing it. The bevels are polished and I feel no difference between this knife and the Yojumbo at the same grit but at 15 degrees without polished bevels.

S90V is one tough steel.

Anyway, I brough it to 1000 Grit and was pretty happy with it. This morning after changing the coarseness of the edge using the gauntlet CBN it cuts even better.

S30V and S90V both feel about the same with the lower grit edge and perform identically well, which is to say better than ever.

[vivi]

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/140grdistflp.html

this is a $30 140 grit diamond flattening plate I've been messing around with. Gives extremely coarse feeling edges. They also make an 80 grit version.

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/ckcodipl40.html

I'm gonna order this stone soon and check it out.

[skeeg11]

Experiments teach us new things...some fail, some delight.

I still find that 400 grit for a Serrata is the finest one should go, and I use 220 for my own ones in the kitchen, especially when slicing and dicing meat of any sort.

But, hey!
Carry on experimenting. :)

To me it doesn't seem dendritic 440C is too particular how fine you go. Seems to have been forgotten as to how amazingly aggressive this steel is. Not just chicken skin, silver skin and proteins, but tomato skins, also. Crusty french bread, too.

[dan31]

I'm going to give this a go with a ZDP-189 Endura. Its my cardboard cutter.

[Bill1170]

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/140grdistflp.html

this is a $30 140 grit diamond flattening plate I've been messing around with. Gives extremely coarse feeling edges. They also make an 80 grit version.

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/ckcodipl40.html

I'm gonna order this stone soon and check it out.

When I’m on the road taking care of neglected knives in friends’ kitchens, I start with a 140 grit Atoma diamond plate to establish an apex. It cuts the steel very fast and can be used dry. Like any coarse diamond plate excessive pressure can strip the diamonds out of the plate. However, it cuts so well that I’m not tempted to press hard.

[mongo1958]

Wow, This thread looks awesome.
I will learn a lot about sharpening here.