The low grit sharpening thread

[Enactive]

First I gotta thank Sal for inventing the Sharpmaker! Benchstones and waterstones have their place too, but the ease of use with the SM is amazing- especially if like many of us you stay on top of it and keep things sharp.

I gotta thank Vivi, Pelagic, BBB, Evil D, Gringo, Bearface and probably some others for turning me on to lower grit edges.

My knife background has largely been with woodworking knives where i keep polished edges. I am still learning a lot about the coarser finish edges and enjoying the challenge of new-to-me techniques.

Thanks, y'all! Keep 'em sharp!

[Bloke]

Nothing to truly add that hasn’t already been said other than to say, I’ve learned a lot in my time here and continue to do so. Very early in the piece I learned that chasing sharp through highly refined edges as I did was at very least time consuming and most often counterproductive. I had knives that push cut cigarette paper that wouldn’t cut anything fibrous with any degree of efficiency.

I still use a refined edge on knives used exclusively to push cut wood but now the finest finish I put on pocket knives or knives used to process fish and game is off the Medium Spyderco ceramics.

My go to fish cleaning knife is a Tasman PE HB with edge finished straight off Spyderco Diamond rods on the SharpMaker and ultralight strop on chrome oxide on stiff leather. :)

[ABX2011]

I like a coarser edge too. No doubt I was influenced from the forums beginning with Ankerson's testing.
I like the finish from the DMT Fine. Recently I bought 400 and 800 grit waterstones.
The Spyderco brown and white seem too fine to me. Going from the Spyderco diamond, the grit jump is too large. Even if you want a more polished edge.
I don't like jumping from a coarse stone to a very fine stone even for a microbevel. I would rather progress gradually to a finer stone and then microbevel with a more coarse stone. That technique reduces burr formation in my experience.

[Jazz]

I don't think the steel behind the apex influences cutting properties enough to polish for that reason. I leave all my bevels with a coarse diamond finish behind the apex.

I notice that blades with grind marks quite visible down the side of the blade, not cutting edge, even slow it down. My Chaparral FRN is like this. The carbon fibre one cuts easier. I stonewashed it.

[Evil D]

Seems to me there has to be some kind of resistance, friction is friction and a rough bevel will create some amount of friction more than a polished bevel. Whether or that that'd legitimately felt in use or just in our heads is debatable. If polishing a bevel makes a real noticable difference we may as well polish the whole blade while we're at it because the blade grind lines probably do the same.

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

Seems to me there has to be some kind of resistance, friction is friction and a rough bevel will create some amount of friction more than a polished bevel. Whether or that that'd legitimately felt in use or just in our heads is debatable. If polishing a bevel makes a real noticable difference we may as well polish the whole blade while we're at it because the blade grind lines probably do the same.

I agree. Why not polish the whole blade and the primary bevel and set the back bevel doing the actual cutting to coarse? I get it that a polished blade shows scratches, but to me the satin blade has always looked unfinished and is nothing but uniform scratches.

Back when I was using the Wicked edge pro 3 to mirror my bevel and edges I could tell a huge difference in how it went through telephone book paper for certain as well as other materials. In retrospect it was a mistake not to set the back bevel coarse.

Love stone-wash finishes.

[vivi]

Seems to me there has to be some kind of resistance, friction is friction and a rough bevel will create some amount of friction more than a polished bevel. Whether or that that'd legitimately felt in use or just in our heads is debatable. If polishing a bevel makes a real noticable difference we may as well polish the whole blade while we're at it because the blade grind lines probably do the same.

Yep. I'd challenge anyone reading this to take two comparable knives, and give one the highest polish they can on the full bevel, then another the coarsest finish they can. Then sharpen the apex to the same grit, and see how much you notice the drag.

I've done exactly that, and my results convinced me polishing behind the apex is a waste of my time. I'll still polish the apex for certain knives, like a chef knife or outdoors scandi fixed blades that push cut a lot of wood, but the bevels are left coarse behind the apex.

[TkoK83Spy]

I microbeveled the apex on the brown rods, but left the rest off the CBN rods. Interested in how this turns out. Maybe next time I'll microbevel off the CBN's and see if I notice a difference with the typically abrasive materials I cut at work.

[vivi]

I microbeveled the apex on the brown rods, but left the rest off the CBN rods. Interested in how this turns out. Maybe next time I'll microbevel off the CBN's and see if I notice a difference with the typically abrasive materials I cut at work.

That's the setup I was using for a while and I really liked it. It's a good balance between polished and toothy at the edge. Depending on what you cut, using CBN's on the apex might give you even better performance.

[Bloke]

I microbeveled the apex on the brown rods, but left the rest off the CBN rods. Interested in how this turns out. Maybe next time I'll microbevel off the CBN's and see if I notice a difference with the typically abrasive materials I cut at work.

Hey Rick, I’ve tried a micro bevel off Diamond rods. :)

It doesn’t stay a micro bevel very long. :eek:

[Evil D]

Seems to me there has to be some kind of resistance, friction is friction and a rough bevel will create some amount of friction more than a polished bevel. Whether or that that'd legitimately felt in use or just in our heads is debatable. If polishing a bevel makes a real noticable difference we may as well polish the whole blade while we're at it because the blade grind lines probably do the same.

Yep. I'd challenge anyone reading this to take two comparable knives, and give one the highest polish they can on the full bevel, then another the coarsest finish they can. Then sharpen the apex to the same grit, and see how much you notice the drag.

I've done exactly that, and my results convinced me polishing behind the apex is a waste of my time. I'll still polish the apex for certain knives, like a chef knife or outdoors scandi fixed blades that push cut a lot of wood, but the bevels are left coarse behind the apex.

Even if we all agree that yes there's definitely a measurable amount of drag, it isn't enough to justify the work I put into polishing a bevel only to damage the edge and then have to start over on diamonds to fix it and polish it all over again. Ain't nobody got time for that. Like you said, some knives used for some things but not my EDC.

[Pelagic]

Blade and edge geometry is everything.

Look at kitchen knives.

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

Seems to me there has to be some kind of resistance, friction is friction and a rough bevel will create some amount of friction more than a polished bevel. Whether or that that'd legitimately felt in use or just in our heads is debatable. If polishing a bevel makes a real noticable difference we may as well polish the whole blade while we're at it because the blade grind lines probably do the same.

Yep. I'd challenge anyone reading this to take two comparable knives, and give one the highest polish they can on the full bevel, then another the coarsest finish they can. Then sharpen the apex to the same grit, and see how much you notice the drag.

I've done exactly that, and my results convinced me polishing behind the apex is a waste of my time. I'll still polish the apex for certain knives, like a chef knife or outdoors scandi fixed blades that push cut a lot of wood, but the bevels are left coarse behind the apex.

Even if we all agree that yes there's definitely a measurable amount of drag, it isn't enough to justify the work I put into polishing a bevel only to damage the edge and then have to start over on diamonds to fix it and polish it all over again. Ain't nobody got time for that. Like you said, some knives used for some things but not my EDC.

Well I guess this is where a Ken onion with grinder attachment would come in? You ar right though trying to keep a presentation bevel on something you use won’t last to a mirror shine but I maintain there will be more drag by not doing so.

Sure it will get scratched up another important thing to be rid of is the ledge from a back-bevel. This is one of the things I have decided my Native chief has very little of and why it is such a great smooth slicer.

Sorry earlier I meant polish the primary bevel for drag reduction not appearance and Sharpen the Micro Bevel coarsely as an experiment.

A question though. How long does a micro bevel really last?

Perhaps it is a wast of time in which case so would be polishing efforts for the primary bevel.

[prndltech]

Ain't nobody got time for that. Like you said, some knives used for some things but not my EDC.

[Evil D]

A question though. How long does a micro bevel really last?

Perhaps it is a wast of time in which case so would be polishing efforts for the primary bevel.

Well ideally a micro bevel is truly micro anyway, you shouldn't be able to see it. Then if you're really staying on top of keeping it "micro" you'd take down the primary bevel the next time you sharpen and eliminate it and then reapply it, but I don't think many people do that, especially not people who are mirror polishing their bevel.

[JD Spydo]

Vivi I'm really glad you started this thread because not only has it been a real "eye opener" it has made me take a hard look at the vast array of sharpening equipment I have now. Not to mention the high percentage of the gross national product that I paid for many of these tools that do nothing but occupy a big tool box :o :rolleyes:

But life is a learning process now isn't it But now you've got my curiosity going in 3 different areas of endeavor. First off I no longer view my diamond sharpening tools as the ultimate, "Fix Everything" tool that I used to think they were. Second I'm starting to see that the art/skill of sharpening is mainly just putting a lot of your good old common horse-sense to work. Because in a demanding survival/disaster type situation I'm sure I won't be using some high tech toy which many of us like to play with. NO I will probably be going back to Michael Janich's article in a past issue of OFF GRID magazine about using all kinds of stuff to sharpen your blades with that you wouldn't have even thought about in normal prosperous times. THIRD I'm going on a search to see what all Mother Nature might just have available for sharpening our much needed edged tools.

One thing I want to do in the next week or so is to go to one of our major libraries here in this area ( and we have some of the best in the USA) and study the Moh's Scales and scan the geology textbooks to find out what all mother nature may already have waiting for us to use in the area of rocks, minerals and in some case gems that all can be a help in sharpening edged tools. But enough said>>because we have truly been spoiled with all of this ultra-modern, high dollar sharpening equipment in spite of the fact that there are things all around us that might work in a pinch.

[THB]

Great thread. Apart from excellent coarse edge performance I find it highly satisfying to sharpen using as few tools as possible

Tojiro kitchen knife sharpening using 400 Grit sic stone - a bit of “cheating” in the end using ceramic rod to remove any left over burr
https://youtu.be/14Z0ZaeSGk4

Small folder sharpening only using DMT diafold coarse/fine
https://youtu.be/UngS48fvdgQ

[vivi]

Great thread. Apart from excellent coarse edge performance I find it highly satisfying to sharpen using as few tools as possible

Tojiro kitchen knife sharpening using 400 Grit sic stone - a bit of “cheating” in the end using ceramic rod to remove any left over burr
https://youtu.be/14Z0ZaeSGk4

Small folder sharpening only using DMT diafold coarse/fine
https://youtu.be/UngS48fvdgQ

You just reminded me I have a diafold somewhere with my camping & hiking gear I haven't used in ages. I'm going to have to look for that later today....

[kwakster]

On this Cold Steel Black Bear machete i reprofiled & sharpened the factory edge as well as the existing swedge to ~30 degrees inclusive with only a cheap Chinese 120 grit diamond file i got from E-Bay, then minimized the burr with the same file and removed the last remnants on the Tormek leather wheel.
Both convex edges are arm hair shaving sharp and have a lot of bite, also due to all the microteeth pointing backwards.
The handle was contoured & fuzzy finished with a woodrasp.













And on this Cold Steel Magnum Kukri machete i reprofiled the existing edge and made a sharpened back edge, both @ ~30 degrees inclusive with the same Chinese 120 grit diamond file, with burr removal the same as above.
Both convex edges are also arm hair shaving sharp.
Very useful tools those coarse diamond files.

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

Yes a most excellent thread Vivi!

Slaps forehead of coarse only after blowing out my 100 grit WEP PADDLE regrinding S90V Military!

Buy cheap 100 grit stones do not waste good ones!!! Arggghhh

This may be the best post of the day cheap Chinease file!

Affirmative recorded!