What's wrong with S30V?

[Pancake]

I can see wanting to try different steels etc., but from a performance standpoint I can't wrap my head around people who refuse to purchase S30V.

Because some people google search ,,S30V any good“ then they read post from some random user that says S35VN, M390 is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY better and then they thought that S30V is junk.

I think what we, knife people, often forget, that like 80% of all pocket knives in the world are made from stainless with 0,3 C HTed to like 52 HRC.

S30V is a good to go steel. And I still think that many knife users could not tell a difference between S30V (these days utter junk along with mystery pot steel), S35VN (these days godlike steel) and like M390 (HT to 58 HRC :p ).

As usual, take my post and all S30V with a grain of Salt^TM and if you like the specific model, buy it no matter the steel.

[Rutger]

I have nothing against S30V. It is a great steel for most people even. I have one knife in it and it is good. But these days it is nothing special either with all the other great steels we can choose from. So S30V doesn't excite me really. And for me to buy even more unneeded knives it takes some special steel/scale combo to pull me in. And other steels/sprint runs don't cost (much) more. I feel that the industry is still selling S30V as a premium steel with a higher price tag. Sure it is way better than the crap steels you get from some brands, but S30V to me is just a common product that is not worth a premium price anymore. I feel that base S30V models should be significantly cheaper for me to not wait on a sprint run. And even then i'd probably wouldn't want the boring base black G10 anyway.

[DSH007]

There are other steels that I prefer to S30V, but my number one consideration for buying a new knife is ultimately whether or not I like or think I will like the design in use. So if a knife design really appeals to me (Kapara, Brouwer, LT3 for example), the steel being S30V is definitely not the deciding factor for me when it comes to picking one up.

As far as S30V goes, I've always liked it. Sure, other steels excel in different areas, but I appreciate balance and I think S30V's "all-around" performance qualities make it a pretty solid choice. So to answer the questions posed by this thread.. "What's wrong with S30V?" IMO, nothing at all.

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

It is horribly average. It's really amazing that we're living in a time when a steel like S30V can be thought of that way but the reality is there are steels that do what S30V does but also have better qualities in certain areas. Most steel traits come with a trade off, like high wear resistance usually means more difficult to sharpen, but with the right stones that isn't even a big deal anymore until you move all the way up to something like REX 121 but there are many steels "below" that level that are also a good bit "above" S30V that aren't anywhere near as hard to sharpen.

So really the only thing "wrong" with S30V are the options you have aside from it. If you just look at S90/110v you have two steels that have drastically better edge retention that in exchange aren't exactly difficult to sharpen and aren't any more prone to chipping and basically have only positive gains over S30V like also being more corrosion resistant.

But, everything is relative and that doesn't mean S30V is bad or not worthy. Just because a Honda Civic is slower than a Corvette doesn't make the Civic any less capable of getting you to and from work. There has to be a median steel option and S30V fills that role very well.

+1

[Wartstein]

....
"S 30 V is boring ot even not good enough" imho is a classic example for what I tried to express above. I am convinced, that a fair share of people who say this, would NOT be able to distinct S30V from other more or less similar steels , if its name would not be stamped on the blade.
That does NOT mean such people are "liars"!! It´s rather like a placebo effect, where people REALLY benefit from a pill that in reality has no effect, just cause they THINK and were told, the pill WOULD have an effect.

Important: OF COURSE a LOT of people on this forum actually ARE capable to "distinct S30V from other steels" and know in reality more than enough to base their judgement of S30 V compared to other steels on their own, real experience.
....

For the record, I didn't say s30v was boring, I said I think s30v+black scales is boring, because so many production Golden base models have this combo. ...

JuPaul, to be clear, my comment was not aimed at yours by any means! Sorry if it sounded like that!!

I just wanted to express a general impression I have, that there´ll always be people having an opinion on whatever, not from real, own experience, but rather cause they heard it somewhere else.

A bit like Pancake said in his comment (quote): "Because some people google search ,,S30V any good“ then they read post from some random user that says S35VN, M390 is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY better and then they thought that S30V is junk."

[vivi]

The responses with this thread are interesting when considering of the amount of factory edges that get posted here.

[Wartstein]

The responses with this thread are interesting when considering of the amount of factory edges that get posted here.

Would support my "theory" that sometimes people rate steels in certain capacities without having too much real, personal experience (here:Concerning sharpening responce, edge holding...)

Though to be fair: Just cause people POST t(only) heir FACTORY edge (S30V-) knives, does not necessarely mean they don´t have OTHER (S30V-) knives they use and sharpen a lot and gain experience by that

[vivi]

The responses with this thread are interesting when considering of the amount of factory edges that get posted here.

Would support my "theory" that sometimes people rate steels in certain capacities without having too much real, personal experience (here:Concerning sharpening responce, edge holding...)

Though to be fair: Just cause people POST t(only) heir FACTORY edge (S30V-) knives, does not necessarely mean they don´t have OTHER (S30V-) knives they use and sharpen a lot and gain experience by that

This is true.

My point is if you have five knives that all have factory edges, the ability to discern between them is significantly reduced compared to someone who has spent a lot of time experimenting with different angles and finishes over several years.

How many people in this thread, for example, can say they've reprofiled S30V and one of the more "interesting" steels thin enough that they saw edge failure?

I have. It'd surprise people how thin I had to go to see issues with S30V. That Manix XL I reprofiled is beefy compared to those edges.

[aaronkb]

Never underestimate the appeal of the emperor's new clothes..
I have seen some Youtube videos where "super steels" are tested, and rank about on par with more common alloys because they are not hardened/heat treated to benefit from their true potential.
I have posted here before (at the risk of sounding like a broken record) that i carried a AUS8 Delica as my only EDC knife for more than 12 years daily (before that i carried Buck110 and Schrade LB7 without ever feeling like i had a subpar knife.)
I don't cut "super stuff" today or in fact anything i didn't cut in 1994 so anything = >AUS8 is good enough for me.

From the testing I’ve seen, it seems like Spyderco knives are the exception to this... for the most part, they do the heat treat right. For instance in the whole M390 controversy, folks were referring to a PM2 as a unicorn because it was the only knife they’d tested that performed the way it was supposed to.

[Larry_Mott]

Never underestimate the appeal of the emperor's new clothes..
I have seen some Youtube videos where "super steels" are tested, and rank about on par with more common alloys because they are not hardened/heat treated to benefit from their true potential.
I have posted here before (at the risk of sounding like a broken record) that i carried a AUS8 Delica as my only EDC knife for more than 12 years daily (before that i carried Buck110 and Schrade LB7 without ever feeling like i had a subpar knife.)
I don't cut "super stuff" today or in fact anything i didn't cut in 1994 so anything = >AUS8 is good enough for me.

From the testing I’ve seen, it seems like Spyderco knives are the exception to this... for the most part, they do the heat treat right. For instance in the whole M390 controversy, folks were referring to a PM2 as a unicorn because it was the only knife they’d tested that performed the way it was supposed to.

I don't remember any brands from the videos, and i didn't intend to point my finger at anyone particular. I must add how impressed i am with Buck and their steels, they perform better than they have any right to IMO :) Not to say they challenge 'super steels' (of course) but for what they are they are surprisingly good, or were in the 80's anyway.

[aaronkb]

Never underestimate the appeal of the emperor's new clothes..
I have seen some Youtube videos where "super steels" are tested, and rank about on par with more common alloys because they are not hardened/heat treated to benefit from their true potential.
I have posted here before (at the risk of sounding like a broken record) that i carried a AUS8 Delica as my only EDC knife for more than 12 years daily (before that i carried Buck110 and Schrade LB7 without ever feeling like i had a subpar knife.)
I don't cut "super stuff" today or in fact anything i didn't cut in 1994 so anything = >AUS8 is good enough for me.

From the testing I’ve seen, it seems like Spyderco knives are the exception to this... for the most part, they do the heat treat right. For instance in the whole M390 controversy, folks were referring to a PM2 as a unicorn because it was the only knife they’d tested that performed the way it was supposed to.

I don't remember any brands from the videos, and i didn't intend to point my finger at anyone particular. I must add how impressed i am with Buck and their steels, they perform better than they have any right to IMO :) Not to say they challenge 'super steels' (of course) but for what they are they are surprisingly good, or were in the 80's anyway.

Yeah, everyone seems to be really into the Bos heat treat... I’ve enjoyed my 154cm Marksman, haven’t sharpened my s35 version yet because I need to extend the choil first.

[cycleguy]

S30V has performed on everything I use a knife for, which is slicing. I didn't know anything was wrong with it - til I read the internet.

CG

[Baron Mind]

Nothing wrong with S30V, nothing at all.

Some people are just tired of it, or bored with it. This is a collector problem not a user problem.

There is a ton of misinformation about it out there. People accept random forum posts from 10 years ago as gospel, without bothering to test it themselves and form their own opinion.

Nowadays there many high end specialized steels that outperform S30V in one particular category. Only care about edge retention? There's maxamet. Only care about toughness? There's 3v. Because S30V doesn't have the wear resistance of Maxamet ot the toughness of 3v, some people seem it bad.

S30V is good to go in my book.

[dogrunner]

Not much to add, because this has all been said:
There is nothing "wrong" with S30V. If there is a model that I really like and it is only likely to be available in S30V, then the steel is not a deterrent.
BUT, I have enough knives and a knife has to really offer something I don't already have to justify a purchase.
If I like a new model but it offers nothing really distinctive and compelling, I am not likely to buy it regardless of the steel. The P4 is a good example - it looks great, but I can't think of what I would use it for that my Mili's can't already do well. So its supersteel was not a good enough selling point for me.
The PM3 was a little different. I wanted another smaller blade for carrying in the office, but an S30V version was not compelling. When it came out in Maxamet, I bought it mostly as a platform that I knew I would carry and use, but as a vehicle to try Maxamet.
Same thing with the Shaman. Loved the look, but not enough to buy in S30V. The 4V version was the extra motivation I needed to try a Shaman, but unfortunately I did not score one. Again nothing against s30V, but it took the combination of the model and a steel I much prefer to push me to make a purchase (attempt).
Bottom line - there are so many great steels available now, I feel like we are lucky to be choosy. Some steels are just noticeably better than S30V for the characteristics I prioritize (edge strength and retention). One thing I do not have is a lot of time to spend sharpening, so I prefer steels that hold an edge much longer. I got my Shaman fix through a good deal on the S90V model.

[Kels73]

OP, I agree with you. I really like S30V. It's a great all-around steel. I think some of the people who avoid it are bored and want something else.

[wrdwrght]

I didn’t know there was something wrong with S30V. I must have missed the memo. :rolleyes:

[vivi]

S30V has performed on everything I use a knife for, which is slicing. I didn't know anything was wrong with it - til I read the internet.

CG

Well said!

[Naperville]

I hardly ever buy folders, and when I do buy a folder I'm looking for a very good steel.

Make 5,000 Street Beat knives in S30V at 61HRC and I'll buy two.

[David R]

"Horribly average." In what way? Is the issue that it's become common, and therefore probably less desirable?

I would S35 over S30, but I like them both. I'm not sure if I sharpened and used both without knowing what they were I could tell the difference. In fact, I'm sure I could not. It does fine for edge retention compared to other super-steels (not K390, Maxamet, and a few others). Some complain about it chipping. I haven't seen this. I much prefer S30 to softer M390/20CV where the edge rolls the edge with use.

[Baron Mind]

People claim s35vn has the same edge retention as s30v. They are wrong. It may be a little tougher, but s30v has a definitive advantage in wear resistance. People think s35vn is better because it's newer. Same edge retention but increased toughness is marketing. Not sure how they arrived at the same edge retention conclusion, but CATRA says otherwise. It's easier for knifemakers to grind, that's the true benefit, which I'd be fine with if we saw a reduced price in knives that use it. We don't. We're lucky Spyderco is willing to blaze their own path and buck current trends.