What's wrong with S30V?

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AccountDeletedUserRequest
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What's wrong with S30V?

Postby AccountDeletedUserRequest » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:11 pm

Seems a lot of folks are out there that won't buy a knife if it's S30V.

Why?

It's a very well rounded steel that doesn't have any significant downfalls.

I see sharpening response listed as one reason. Here is a video of me getting S30V shaving sharp off a reprofiling stone:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnuY-Ib2jVg

How is that a bad response to sharpening?

S30V was the first steel I got hair whittling sharp. UKPK, original G10 run, DMT fine stone + strop. I could also get it that sharp using my sharpmakers white fine stones and a strop.

It's a pretty tough steel too. Here it is in my reprofiled Manix XL again being used for some light chopping and batoning, stabbing through a can, etc., then still cleanly slicing paper with ease:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=hl3n-BtLoaI

It holds an edge well. Not as well as some of the newer, more expensive steels, but just about anyone here will be able to manage with its degree of edge longevity.

It's very corrosion resistant.

I can see wanting to try different steels etc., but from a performance standpoint I can't wrap my head around people who refuse to purchase S30V.

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Re: What's wrong with S30V?

Postby aaronkb » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:20 pm

For me personally there isn’t anything WRONG with S30V, it’s just not that exciting. Why buy an S30V manix when I could (and do) have it in s110v, M4 and Cruwear? Why buy an S30V shaman when I had the opportunity to get it in M4 and am hoping for the rumored rex45 sprint to come to fruition? Why get an S30V PM2 when I have them in M390 and K390? The s35vn on my para 3 isn’t the most exciting thing in the world, but it’s pretty **** nice and I believe spyderco’s s35vn performs their S30V. So why would I buy the original? Hoping for more sprints/exclusives of that as well.

All of that aside, I think I’m about to break down and buy my first Spyderco in S30V. I’ve been wanting a Kapara more and more, and I’m not optimistic about holding out for a sprint run of a Taichung model. And I’m sure the S30V will perform just fine, although I still wish I could get it in something more interesting.

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Re: What's wrong with S30V?

Postby Bdubs808 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:29 pm

I like M390 and Cruwear as much as anyone, but S30V won't stop me from buying a knife. I picked up the S30V Delica and Dragonfly and they're awesome knives. I think its a good standard for knife steel, and honestly with normal use don't see much difference between any of the stainless super steels, because I don't do any crazy cutting.
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SteveMidwest
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Re: What's wrong with S30V?

Postby SteveMidwest » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:49 pm

From someone who has been buying knives since the 440C, 425M, and 420HC stone age of knife steels. All of the way up to K390 and Maxamet. S30V is a fantastic steel, and we should all be so thankful that it's considered 'middle ground' right now.

Long live S30V! :D

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Re: What's wrong with S30V?

Postby JuPaul » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:53 pm

s30v never stops me from buying a knife, it suits my simple edc needs and basic sharpening skills very well. Sometimes I just want something other than the standard (and imo, boring) black scales/s30v combo of almost all base models. s30v+black frn dragonfly = meh, I'll wait. S30v+teal frn scales = I'll buy two.
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Re: What's wrong with S30V?

Postby Wartstein » Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:48 am

I know the following mght be very controversial and to be clear: I do NOT want to offend anyone by any means, it´s just what I think (and I could be wrong very well plus thoughts like this are not easy to correctly epress for me in English):

I think in a every group, in every context people want to belong, and want to be respected, that´s just how we are as human beings.
Now I also think in the "knife world" or even in the context of this forum, especially rather unexperienced people instinctivly (so I am NOT saying conscious or "planned"!!) perceive what they think an "experienced, seasoned knife person" would say or feel concerning certain topics.

And, just cause they want to belong or want to be taken seriously (again, instinctivly) just say the same or even PERCEIVE the same as they think presumably experienced knife people say or feel.

"S 30 V is boring ot even not good enough" imho is a classic example for what I tried to express above. I am convinced, that a fair share of people who say this, would NOT be able to distinct S30V from other more or less similar steels , if its name would not be stamped on the blade.
That does NOT mean such people are "liars"!! It´s rather like a placebo effect, where people REALLY benefit from a pill that in reality has no effect, just cause they THINK and were told, the pill WOULD have an effect.

Important: OF COURSE a LOT of people on this forum actually ARE capable to "distinct S30V from other steels" and know in reality more than enough to base their judgement of S30 V compared to other steels on their own, real experience.

/ BTW: I really like S30V :D (but could NEVER EVER distinct it from something like S35VN without stamps on the blade)
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: What's wrong with S30V?

Postby ladybug93 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:11 am

i like s30v, but would rather have lc200n for more corrosion resistance because i live on an island. if there is a knife i really like that is usually in a lesser steel and it comes out in s30v, i’d definitely consider it. the dragonfly is a good example of this. i didn’t buy one, but i would’ve liked it a lot.
we’re all just spoiled. look at what happened with the backlock manix. everyone was holding out for the next run in a steel that would make them feel cooler and it got discontinued instead. i get it though. i don’t want to buy a knife in s30v in hopes that i’ll someday be able to buy it again in the steel i really wanted.

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Re: What's wrong with S30V?

Postby Larry_Mott » Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:18 am

Never underestimate the appeal of the emperor's new clothes..
I have seen some Youtube videos where "super steels" are tested, and rank about on par with more common alloys because they are not hardened/heat treated to benefit from their true potential.
I have posted here before (at the risk of sounding like a broken record) that i carried a AUS8 Delica as my only EDC knife for more than 12 years daily (before that i carried Buck110 and Schrade LB7 without ever feeling like i had a subpar knife.)
I don't cut "super stuff" today or in fact anything i didn't cut in 1994 so anything = >AUS8 is good enough for me.
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Re: What's wrong with S30V?

Postby standy99 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:47 am

Nothing wrong with it at all. A high end steel to many.

“The premium steel sprint effect”

( Sometimes I look at two knives of the same make one with blue or whatever scales and a premium steel for $50+ more than the black scale S30V and don’t see the extra $50 )
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Re: What's wrong with S30V?

Postby Evil D » Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:34 am

It is horribly average. It's really amazing that we're living in a time when a steel like S30V can be thought of that way but the reality is there are steels that do what S30V does but also have better qualities in certain areas. Most steel traits come with a trade off, like high wear resistance usually means more difficult to sharpen, but with the right stones that isn't even a big deal anymore until you move all the way up to something like REX 121 but there are many steels "below" that level that are also a good bit "above" S30V that aren't anywhere near as hard to sharpen.

So really the only thing "wrong" with S30V are the options you have aside from it. If you just look at S90/110v you have two steels that have drastically better edge retention that in exchange aren't exactly difficult to sharpen and aren't any more prone to chipping and basically have only positive gains over S30V like also being more corrosion resistant.

But, everything is relative and that doesn't mean S30V is bad or not worthy. Just because a Honda Civic is slower than a Corvette doesn't make the Civic any less capable of getting you to and from work. There has to be a median steel option and S30V fills that role very well.
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Re: What's wrong with S30V?

Postby Pelagic » Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:11 am

Evil D wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:34 am
It is horribly average. It's really amazing that we're living in a time when a steel like S30V can be thought of that way but the reality is there are steels that do what S30V does but also have better qualities in certain areas. Most steel traits come with a trade off, like high wear resistance usually means more difficult to sharpen, but with the right stones that isn't even a big deal anymore until you move all the way up to something like REX 121 but there are many steels "below" that level that are also a good bit "above" S30V that aren't anywhere near as hard to sharpen.

So really the only thing "wrong" with S30V are the options you have aside from it. If you just look at S90/110v you have two steels that have drastically better edge retention that in exchange aren't exactly difficult to sharpen and aren't any more prone to chipping and basically have only positive gains over S30V like also being more corrosion resistant.

But, everything is relative and that doesn't mean S30V is bad or not worthy. Just because a Honda Civic is slower than a Corvette doesn't make the Civic any less capable of getting you to and from work. There has to be a median steel option and S30V fills that role very well.
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Re: What's wrong with S30V?

Postby rabbitanarchy14 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:32 am

as for as me i love s30v what i do not love however is most of the production s30v knives are in black. if they did colored handles and left the steel s30v i promise more people would care less about sprints or special steels unless its the steel they are after.

i have already said if they did the para 3, lil native, pm2, manix 2 in different colors for production and left them in s30v i would have a ton more of s30v.
In-Possession - Para 3 S35VN, Para 3 G10 M390 Red, Dice XHP, Lil Native S30V comp B, Manix 2 M390 BR, MKM Voxnaes Isonzo N690Co, Benchmade 555HGBlu, Ontario Rat 2 Gr G10
On-Deck - Manix 2 Cruwear, Urban AEBL, Brouwer, Cat BD1N, Lil Native compression 20CV/M390, Dragonfly 2
Loved Steels - Cruwear, M390/20CV, S35VN, BD1N, XHP, S30V, N690Co

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Re: What's wrong with S30V?

Postby JuPaul » Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:11 am

Wartstein wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:48 am
I know the following mght be very controversial and to be clear: I do NOT want to offend anyone by any means, it´s just what I think (and I could be wrong very well plus thoughts like this are not easy to correctly epress for me in English):

I think in a every group, in every context people want to belong, and want to be respected, that´s just how we are as human beings.
Now I also think in the "knife world" or even in the context of this forum, especially rather unexperienced people instinctivly (so I am NOT saying conscious or "planned"!!) perceive what they think an "experienced, seasoned knife person" would say or feel concerning certain topics.

And, just cause they want to belong or want to be taken seriously (again, instinctivly) just say the same or even PERCEIVE the same as they think presumably experienced knife people say or feel.

"S 30 V is boring ot even not good enough" imho is a classic example for what I tried to express above. I am convinced, that a fair share of people who say this, would NOT be able to distinct S30V from other more or less similar steels , if its name would not be stamped on the blade.
That does NOT mean such people are "liars"!! It´s rather like a placebo effect, where people REALLY benefit from a pill that in reality has no effect, just cause they THINK and were told, the pill WOULD have an effect.

Important: OF COURSE a LOT of people on this forum actually ARE capable to "distinct S30V from other steels" and know in reality more than enough to base their judgement of S30 V compared to other steels on their own, real experience.

/ BTW: I really like S30V :D (but could NEVER EVER distinct it from something like S35VN without stamps on the blade)
For the record, I didn't say s30v was boring, I said I think s30v+black scales is boring, because so many production Golden base models have this combo. I first tried a sprint because I wanted a new color (this was actually on a delica, so it was vg-10, not s30v, being "upgraded"), and that's actually what got me into trying other steels. I don't put my folders through hard repetitive use on a daily basis, so I rarely notice or care about minimial differences in edge retention, unless we're talking about a stark difference like PE h1 vs zdp. Where I do notice the differences are in ease of sharpening and in toughness (will I chip it), so those tend to be the factors that I look for and care about in new steels. S30v has been a good combo or easy to sharpen and tough enough, so I like it.
- Julia

"Be excellent to each other." - Bill S. Preston, Esq.

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Re: What's wrong with S30V?

Postby TkoK83Spy » Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:24 am

Count me in on the black scales/S30V combo...it's more the scales than the steel that will steer me away. In terms of the steel though, I have no problem with it. There are many models out there that you can only get in S30V, and it would be a darn shame to miss out on them because of that. Yea it's not the shiny new car it once was, but I agree with it being a pretty good all around steel. I've had a chipping issue on one of mine when I was cutting some strapping and accidentally ran my edge into a screw head. It sharpened up relatively easy and you could never tell the chip was there.
Currently have 20 :spyder: 's in 14 different steels.

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Re: What's wrong with S30V?

Postby curlyhairedboy » Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:31 am

I am SUPER SUPER happy to have s30v as spyderco's default steel. It's consistently heat treated and gives consistent performance. It keeps a working edge for a good while and is a massive step up from the performance seen on the bottom end of the market.
EDC Rotation: PITS, Shaman, CF S90v Shaman, Ikuchi, Amalgam, CruCarta Shaman, Lil Native, Sage 5 LW, Ouroboros
Always in Pocket: Hawkbill Dragonfly 2 H1
Special and Sentimental: Southard, Smallfly G10, Squarehead LW, Calendar Para 3 LW, 40th Anniversary Native
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Wishlist: CQI Kapara, Watu, Tanto PM2, Shaman Sprints!

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Re: What's wrong with S30V?

Postby Kleon » Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:08 am

I was having this exact question running through my mind the last couple days. I use a Millie and YoJimbo 2 in S90V a lot but lately have been carrying and using the S30V Shaman for everything I have been doing mainly kitchen and packaging / cardboard disposal / zip ties etc. I have to say that S30V and S90V seem like the same steel in use to me. Neither is super easy to sharpen for me without diamond stones and require care in burr removal to get the edge super sharp but they both cut for a LONG time once sharp before touch up and have plenty of toughness for day to day use coupled with great corrosion resistance and ease of care in that sense. Funny that what was so recently a hyped super steel (and still performs like one in my opinion) is now looked down on in so many users eyes...

Not that I don't enjoy testing / trying out new steels like ouf LC200N, M4V, HAP40 and more... yeah the disease is tough to shake i know...

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Re: What's wrong with S30V?

Postby anycal » Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:12 am

I don't have a problem with S30V. After all, it is how I started with Spyderco.

Seeing how Spyderco has the capability to use a variety of steels and materials, what's wrong with us as customers wanting to try some of those options. Especially as some can be had for a few dollars more than the base model. That, and I became fond of non-stainless steel lately ;)

I have more knives than I like to admit. By now I feel like I know if a knife will work for me based on specs. So this is my thinking.

A new model is released usually in S30V. If I want that knife, if it appeals to me and I must try it, I will buy it. Ikuchi is a prefect example of this. Anything other than that initial 'I need this knife' feeling, and it will go in one of two ways.

1. I will wait for a sprint/exclusive to try it. The most current example is the Shaman.
2. If a sprint/exclusive will not likely happen, I am OK with passing on the knife. Manix backlock, Chief (I hope not), Brouwer, are some examples of this.

And, then there are knives which, no matter what materials you use, I am just not interested in the model.
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Re: What's wrong with S30V?

Postby JD Spydo » Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:19 am

Well this could boil down to a "Ford vs Chevy" debate so I'll try not to go there. But I've truly just had better results using VG-10 over S30V in my own endeavors. I've got a friend I talk to occasionally in Canada ( Alberta Province) who has told me in the past about chipping in cold weather he experienced with S30V. At first I didn't think much of it because it can get really cold up in that part of the continent. But I myself experienced it too on a Manix model I had quite some time ago. I've had other anomalies with S30V as well. And I've avoided buying or trading for certain models that have S30V. I've never had any of those problems with VG-10 and I've liked it since the very first knife I ever owned with it ( C-54 big Calypso).

I still rate my Temperance 1 model my favorite fixed blade from Spyderco as of yet. For a lot of reasons other than the VG-10 steel. Compared to some other blade steels I've had over the years I have had much better results with edge retention than I have had with S30V. I have other reasons but I don't want make a thesis out it.

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Re: What's wrong with S30V?

Postby mb1 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:22 am

S30V just isn't exciting. I've never disliked it though. Maybe more divisive is VG10. I have a like/hate relationship with that steel. ;)

Not to derail, but is there a CQI in the works for the Ikuchi tip poking people issue? I would already own that with S30V if not for all those bloody finger reports.
- Mark

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Re: What's wrong with S30V?

Postby JRinFL » Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:50 am

I have nothing against S30V and would choose it over VG-10 any day of the week. I do have an issue of premium prices for a knife that has S30V, however. But if I like it enough (Kapara) or if the price drops greatly (Shaman deal), I will buy it. It is still a very good steel even it if trails a bit in some aspects.
Used to be JR in CT with a much earlier join date. :rolleyes: :spyder: Native in 440v was my gateway Spyderco! :spyder:


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