S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
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Woodpuppy
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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby Woodpuppy » Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:52 am

Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:12 pm
It is easier to to sharpen and just as corrosion resistant if not more. Holds a truly sharp edge longer and well golly gosh darn I hope Spyderco will drop the steel craze a bit as they are all over the map with different steels and give us some 440C.

I am on board to buy some let’s return to yesteryear with some solid 440C.
:eek: AAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOO!!!!!
:spyder: My other blade is a Kelly Perfect :spyder:

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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby JD Spydo » Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:08 am

Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:12 pm
For the last two weeks I have been EDC-ing two knives. The Spyderco Delica in Cruwear. Freaking stupid awesome combo!!

The second larger knife a Buck 110 in 440C with Nickel metal bolsters G10 scales and a pocket clip.

Now let’s be clear nothing beats Cruwear in a FFG BUT I gotta tell everyone the grandpa style Buck110 ain’t no slouch either!

Honestly I like 440C better than S30V.

It is easier to to sharpen and just as corrosion resistant if not more. Holds a truly sharp edge longer and well golly gosh darn I hope Spyderco will drop the steel craze a bit as they are all over the map with different steels and give us some 440C.

I am on board to buy some let’s return to yesteryear with some solid 440C.
There's a lot to be said for the old BUCK model 110. It goes all the way back to my teenage years. I had one then but for some strange reason there were two Ka-Bar blades that seemed to get more use. As far as 440C goes it is far from being the worst blade steel out there. The two Boker models I've owned with that steel weren't bad at all.

I always found it interesting that Spyderco used that blade steel for the original, Golden Made MEERKAT. And the blades in the original Spyderench too.

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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:41 am

440C has come as a huge surprise to me, very pleased with it and believe if married to Spyderco designs like the Delica and stretch and many more it would make A very nice Spydie indeed.

Sometime new and Different makes us miss out on some of the old and awesome. Oh well glad I get to experience 440C just wish it was a Spydie.

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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby James Y » Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:10 pm

The only 440C Spyderco I had was a Meerkat, which was, IIRC, quite good; although admittedly, I didn’t end up using it that much.

The 440C I have had a good amount of experience with were in my Benchmade axis TSEK, and early Griptilians. Those were and are nice blades. Although, I will say that Spyderco’s VG-10 has had better edge-holding for me than 440C.

Jim

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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby JD Spydo » Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:50 pm

Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:41 am
440C has come as a huge surprise to me, very pleased with it and believe if married to Spyderco designs like the Delica and stretch and many more it would make A very nice Spydie indeed.

Sometime new and Different makes us miss out on some of the old and awesome. Oh well glad I get to experience 440C just wish it was a Spydie.
I do find it quite interesting that BOKER who is a high end, high quality German knife company who undoubtedly has a plethora of different blade steels at their disposal. But for the past 8 to 10 years I've seen them with several new designs and several of their more popular production models are made with 440C.
Now I've had several blades in the past few years that had a 440C blade. I currently own 3 ( if you're counting the blade on my Spyderench) Spyderco models with 440C. It's not bad steel really at all>> but I prefer VG-10 over it.

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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby yowzer » Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:24 am

I wonder if the dislike of VG-10 comes from it just being an older steel that's still used for the majority of Japanese models. Their prices keep going up, and then you look at all the different sexy PM steels (Plus more knives with fancier handles compared to FRN or plain G-10 that make up most JP offerings) on Taiwanese models for competitive prices and it gets hard to justify the VG-10 one unless you really like the design when you can get more bang for your buck.

And 440C isn't sexy either (Plus I think all the Chinese pot metal knives labelled 440 didn't help its reputation any), but it's still a perfectly good steel when put out by a quality brand. (*cough* Serrata if you want a great take on it *cough*)

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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby JD Spydo » Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:15 am

James Y wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:10 pm
The only 440C Spyderco I had was a Meerkat, which was, IIRC, quite good; although admittedly, I didn’t end up using it that much.

The 440C I have had a good amount of experience with were in my Benchmade axis TSEK, and early Griptilians. Those were and are nice blades. Although, I will say that Spyderco’s VG-10 has had better edge-holding for me than 440C.
JIm that 440C Meerkat is a really rare bird. Because the vast majority of those original 2005-2006 runs of that model were all AUS-6. Another distinction that 440C Meerkat has is that it was made in GOLDEN, CO. All the other Meerkat models were made in Japan that I know of.

A very good friend of mine who died back in 2015 had that Golden made 440C Meerkat with collector number 003 on it. After he died I could never find out whose collector number that was. There were so few of those GOLDEN made Meerkat models and finding one now would be something to brag about.

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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby The Mastiff » Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:36 pm

I've had 440C knives that sounded like I was trying to cut low grit sandpaper when sharpening on diamond plates. It's about the only steel I don't care for. The overall use of many different steels labeled as 440C really hasn't helped my feelings about it either. VG 10 is a great steel in comparison IMO. Spyderco has done much to influence my feelings about VG10 and it has consistently performed and sharpened very well in my experience going back to when Spyderco first introduced it. It along with Spydercos S30V have become reference standards that I use to judge other steels attributes because of Spyderco's consistency.

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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby JD Spydo » Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:10 pm

The Mastiff wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:36 pm
I've had 440C knives that sounded like I was trying to cut low grit sandpaper when sharpening on diamond plates. It's about the only steel I don't care for. The overall use of many different steels labeled as 440C really hasn't helped my feelings about it either. VG 10 is a great steel in comparison IMO. Spyderco has done much to influence my feelings about VG10 and it has consistently performed and sharpened very well in my experience going back to when Spyderco first introduced it. It along with Spydercos S30V have become reference standards that I use to judge other steels attributes because of Spyderco's consistency.
What is interesting is that BOKER seems to have made 440C their version of S30V & VG-10 both. It's their mainline steel right now.

I get a sneaking suspicion we are going to see more nitrogen based steels in Spyderco's main line up in the near future. It's just a gut feeling I've got.

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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby fanglekai » Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:22 pm

I pass on knives that I can't use as a lefty. S30V and VG-10 are both great.

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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby JD Spydo » Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:38 am

fanglekai wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:22 pm
I pass on knives that I can't use as a lefty. S30V and VG-10 are both great.
That's an interesting topic you bring up. Because I don't see as many "lefty" Spyderco models as I did a few years back.

However I think it's fair to say that most of the models I really like tend to be ambidextrous ( right or left). Now in the case of full Spyderedged models it might make a difference. However in that case I'm doubtful if blade steel selection is that big of a problem in most cases.

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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby JD Spydo » Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:43 am

Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:41 am
440C has come as a huge surprise to me, very pleased with it and believe if married to Spyderco designs like the Delica and stretch and many more it would make A very nice Spydie indeed.

Sometime new and Different makes us miss out on some of the old and awesome. Oh well glad I get to experience 440C just wish it was a Spydie.
I just noticed recently that I have a fish fillet fixed blade made by "United Cutlery" that has a 440C blade and it's far from the worst of any food knives I own at this time. I've used it with great results over the past 5 years and it's a "keeper" unless I find something that literally puts it to shame. Plus it has an excellent handle. Also it's interesting to note that "United Cutlery" has made most of the licensed knives for the COLT gun company too.

Getting back to the VG-10-S30V discussion>> I've seen a lot of VG-10 knives intended for culinary uses but I've yet to see a food/culinary blade made with S30V. Maybe corrosion resistance is a factor?? But again VG-10 seems to do well in PE & SE both from my own personal uses over the years.

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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby fanglekai » Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:53 pm

JD Spydo wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:38 am
fanglekai wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:22 pm
I pass on knives that I can't use as a lefty. S30V and VG-10 are both great.
That's an interesting topic you bring up. Because I don't see as many "lefty" Spyderco models as I did a few years back.

However I think it's fair to say that most of the models I really like tend to be ambidextrous ( right or left). Now in the case of full Spyderedged models it might make a difference. However in that case I'm doubtful if blade steel selection is that big of a problem in most cases.
Generally the problem is Spyderholes that are not usable for a left-handed person. Also, I can't easily use a normal compression lock with my left hand, so all those models are also off the table.

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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby Cambertree » Sun Oct 27, 2019 1:19 am

Yeah I'm usually half annoyed, and half thankful I don't have to consider all those knives with a heavy righty bias whenever a new catalogue comes out.

I like VG10 a lot. The only reason I don't really consider it in models like the Paul Alexander designs is because I already have so many VG10 knives. Usually a different steel is what helps me justify a new knife purchase. Plus the Japanese made prices are gradually increasing to the level where makers like Taichung often seem to be outcompeting them.

Most of my stainless kitchen knives are VG10 and it's a really excellent, well rounded steel when run a bit harder in thin edges.

I generally won't consider a model in S30V unless there are exceptional circumstances, like a model I really, really want, that doesn't come in any other steel. The second Spyderco I ever bought was a S30V PM2 (which I loved), but once I started thinning it out and refining the edge, it had some odd continuous microchipping behaviour.

At the time I thought it was just how high vanadium steels must act, but lately I'm more inclined to think I may have received a bad example.

I've purchased a Yo2 and a Lefty Millie and a Kapara in S30V since then, and they seem to behave OK, but based on my first experience with the steel, I always have a bit of reserve in my mind about the way the steel acts in thin, refined edges.

Higher carbide steels like ZDP189, S110V and Maxamet have never given me any similar issues.

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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby JD Spydo » Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:26 pm

Cambertree wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 1:19 am
I like VG10 a lot. The only reason I don't really consider it in models like the Paul Alexander designs is because I already have so many VG10 knives. Usually a different steel is what helps me justify a new knife purchase.

Most of my stainless kitchen knives are VG10 and it's a really excellent, well rounded steel when run a bit harder in thin edges.

I generally won't consider a model in S30V unless there are exceptional circumstances, like a model I really, really want, that doesn't come in any other steel. The second Spyderco I ever bought was a S30V PM2 (which I loved), but once I started thinning it out and refining the edge, it had some odd continuous microchipping behaviour.

Higher carbide steels like ZDP189, S110V and Maxamet have never given me any similar issues.
I pretty much agree with everything you said. That's one of my problems at this time>> I really have about all the VG-10 blades I really want>> however if there were a super, super cool model released like a Sprint Run of the Captain, G-10 Harpy or anything I want really bad I'll go ahead and get another VG-10. But I'm to the point to where unless it's another Dodo model I don't want anything with S30V.

The Supersteels>> I'm starting to get more of them but I try not to get too many of any one steel unless it would be M390 which is my current fav.

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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby James Y » Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:56 pm

My newest acquisition is a G10 Manix 2 FFG with DLC coating. My knife purchases are winding down anyway, and the fact that the blade is S30V didn’t affect my decision. I find I generally like my Spydercos in the “common” versions anyway. This Manix 2 has become one of my favorite knives; it’s the most comfortable in hand I’ve ever owned.

Jim

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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby Hardbawl » Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:23 am

Being left handed, my choices in a useful EDC are way more limited than yours. So, when Spyderco offered the great PM2 in a left-handed model, I bought the first one I could find. Yes, it has a S30V blade. I learned how to sharpen it really sharp. After hard use, I can sharpen it in about 10 minutes. One of the super duper steels may be harder to sharpen really sharp, or it may be brittle or prone to rust. I will trust Spyderco to know more about knife steel than a forum jockey.


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