S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

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S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby JD Spydo » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:40 pm

For all of you who have known me for a while you do know that I've personally went on record a few times saying that S30V is just not one of my favorite blade steels especially in plain edge. Now I still like Spyderedged models in S30V even though I like SE models in it's predecessor 440V a lot better. But I still consider S30V a decent steel for SE. And this is coming from a guy who is a big fan of many of Crucible's blade steels.

Now I just can't begin to tell you all how many models that I've personally past on in the last 8 to 10 years because at the time they were only available in S30V.
Also on the Japan made flip side of this discussion there are a few of you who have the same feelings about VG-10 which is the mainline blade steel used in the Japan made models. And I'm now wondering how many of you all who have passed on models only because they can only be obtained in VG-10? >>> just like I have boycotted S30V PE models.

What I want know is which models all of you have passed on simply because they were only available in S30V or VG-10? I can't tell you how many times I've had personal conversations with friends who have said that they would buy that one certain model had they been available in another blade steel. To me that should set the stage for Sprint Run models that they should consider doing in other blade steels IMO. Now VG-10 isn't a problem for me because I still like most of my VG-10 models for using and it serves me well >> and I still rate the steel to slightly above average.

I've passed up on the Chockwe, two of the Chinook models and recently one of the Swick models because at that time they were only available in S30V. So How many of you have just loved a certain model but the blade steel offered at the time kept you from buying it? And again I want to limit this conversation to S30V and VG-10 i.e. their mainline blade steels offered. And you can go back in time as far as you want. VG-10 has been with us since the mid to late 90s and S30V has been in Spyderco's line up since 2003 or thereabout. You might just tell us which steel you would want that certain model in too

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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby A.S.O.K.A » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:20 pm

The one that stood out to me the most would have to be the brouwer model. It has the kind of ergonmics that really shined. I dint skip it out of dislike for s30v. I'm primarilly into spydercos to try out new steels that I never had the pleasure of using and sharpening, so I tend to avoid getting models in the a steel I already have with the exception of the shaman, yojimbo, lil native, and upcoming shaman.
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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby Larry_Mott » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:25 pm

I am at the other end of the scale. I carried a AUS8 Delica daily for more than 12 years, and i don't cut different stuff today, so to me steel is really not an issue, as long as it is =>AUS8
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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:28 pm

Essentially I have passed on all S30V models after first owning it in several models, unless they were something really out of the ordinary like the Native Chief.

I have never passed on a model in VG-10 after the first time I used it prior to that I avoided it based on negative talk about it.

Now after learning some free hand sharpening on the Spyderco Brown Bench stones using wedges to help establish the angle I am very happy with S30V, it sharpens much better and then when I take it to the Sharpmaker to dial it in it takes it the rest of the way.

Right now I have a set of Diamond rods due to show up on Friday for the Sharpmaker Sal says both the Diamond Rods and the CBN are 400 Mesh converted to Microns this means 37 microns converted to grit this equals 481.35454333286395 so I guess 500 grit would be the closest comparison.

Lots of folks say that coarser edges work better, especially high carcide steels like S30V well I guess we will see. Will be interesting to see how this works with the Manix XL

When it comes to S30V it took more education and different ways of sharpening to appreciate it.

Will I go out of my way to buy a model because it has S30V? No I will not but it will no longer deter me from purchasing either if it is a model I like as was the case with the Native Chief.

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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby AccountDeletedUserRequest » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:43 pm

I have never had a performance issue with S30V or VG10 and would never pass up a model I am interested in because it comes in one of those steels.

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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby James Y » Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:14 pm

I’ve never passed on a model I was interested in because of either VG-10 or S30V, but between the two I like VG-10 better. I’ve never had any problems with either. I’ve found both are pretty easy to resharpen, too, but VG-10 is a snap to resharpen. When I pass on a model, it’s almost always because I realize I don’t really want the knife itself, anyway.

I would rather see S30V replaced as one of the base steels than VG-10.

Jim

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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby Pelagic » Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:29 pm

I largely pass on models because I don't like the model itself. And the ones where s30v is my biggest complaint has more to do with price than anything (namely the subvert).

Personally I find it odd out of all the blade steels we have today s30v is one of the very few specifically designed for cutlery.

I like and enjoy VG-10 but my lifestyle typically demands more performance. So that is an issue with me and not VG-10.
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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby JD Spydo » Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:35 pm

James Y wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:14 pm
I’ve never passed on a model I was interested in because of either VG-10 or S30V, but between the two I like VG-10 better. I’ve never had any problems with either. I’ve found both are pretty easy to resharpen, too, but VG-10 is a snap to resharpen. When I pass on a model, it’s almost always because I realize I don’t really want the knife itself, anyway.

I would rather see S30V replaced as one of the base steels than VG-10.
JIm I'm on the same page as you I'm pretty sure. Unless they replace VG-10 with something significantly better I'm still content with some of those Japan made models using VG-10. But with all the steels to select from with Crucible I think there should be at least a half a dozen blade steels that would sell better than S30V IMO.
I've always had better luck with VG-10 for models that I actually use hard. Especially in SE. And I don't mind S30V in SE but I've always liked it's predecessor 440V ( S60V) far better in SE.
What DW said about having a wider angle on the apex of an S30V blade is something I'll have to check on. But of all the Crucible steels that Spyderco has used I must say that S30V has never impressed me much at all in PE. I like VG-10 in PE & SE both.
I could probably think of at least 10 to 12 models I've passed on over the years because of them only being available in S30V. I would love to see the Chockwe model return in one of the Supersteels. But I would never buy it in S30V. There is one blade I've done well with in S30V and that is the Dodo model. But actually I would rather even see it in M-4 or 20CV.

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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby Evil D » Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:53 pm

I don't think I've ever passed on a model only because of the steel, but it's a total package deal so if some models had other steels I may have been more inclined to buy.

An example of that is the Shaman...I would have eventually got one in the standard combo if that's all it ever got produced in but I've held out for a sprint. On the other hand I bought a Sliverax and a Yojimbo 2 the day those models came out because I liked them so much it didn't matter if it was VG10 or S30V or even some lesser steels if the price reflects that.
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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby curlyhairedboy » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:27 pm

I'm in the opposite boat:

I've definitely passed on models because they were only available in vg10.

Knives I've had and sold to fund models in other steels:

Delica
Lava SS
Ouroborous
Matriarch
Poliwog

Knives I've considered where vg10 was a deciding factor against buying them:

Parata
Kris
Endura
Introvert
Captain
Kopa
Roc
Rescue
Rock lobster
Persian
Centofante
EDC Rotation: PITS, Shaman, CF S90v Shaman, Ikuchi, Amalgam, CruCarta Shaman, Lil Native, Sage 5 LW, Ouroboros, 4V Shaman, Watu, Rex 45 Shaman, Rex 45 Lil Native, S30v Endura
Always in Pocket: Hawkbill Dragonfly 2 H1
Special and Sentimental: Southard, Smallfly G10, Squarehead LW, Calendar Para 3 LW, 40th Anniversary Native
Would like to own again: Sheepsfoot Caribbean
Wishlist: CQI Kapara, Tanto PM2, Shaman Sprints!

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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby jpm2 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:27 pm

I presently have every knife I want in a more desirable steel (to me), except a sage.
Although there's a dozen other steels I would rather have, s30v has been my preferred stainless for a few years now.

All the VG10 I've used seems mushy, for lack of a better word. So far my experience with BD1N, would have me prefer it instead.

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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby JD Spydo » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:30 pm

curlyhairedboy wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:27 pm
I'm in the opposite boat:

I've definitely passed on models because they were only available in vg10.
I just knew that VG-10 has about as many detractors as S30V did. We all like different things for different reasons and this narrow blade steel selection on certain models I believe plays into the equation more than we might think.

Now myself I personally like VG-10 for various reasons. I also like many of the blade steels that Crucible makes but S30V isn't one of them. But I'm now willing to bet that there are probably a few people that don't like either one.

Just reading dozens of threads here and Bladeforums both had several people say stuff like>> "well if it's available ABC steel I'll buy one" or "I won't buy it if it's made with XYZ steel. It's a completely new age in the knife business since so many afis have gotten to be "steel snobs" .

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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby Manalishi » Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:31 pm

I have not had any issues with S30V..It’s not hard to sharpen.I like the toothy edge off the medium grit sharpmaker stones..I sharpen vg10 a little finer than S30V..But I have never decided against a knife because it’s s30v..

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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby Sumdumguy » Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:38 pm

I've passed on or sold many S30V knives.

Never have I passed because of VG-10.

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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby The Mastiff » Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:40 pm

The Chief and the Manix backlock are two that I recall without looking up models. If these had steels like Cruwear or 4V, K390 or several others I'd have them and like them. They had everything I liked about them except blade steel. Please be aware I like and respect both steels. I just have 25 or more unused knives in these steels sitting in boxes.

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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby MichaelScott » Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:54 pm

Doesn’t matter to me. I have had both, and a few other “non-super” steels. It’s more the knife than the steel for me.
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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby Spydergirl88 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:57 pm

MichaelScott wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:54 pm
It’s more the knife than the steel for me.
Me too
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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby Sharp Guy » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:10 pm

Spydergirl88 wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:57 pm
MichaelScott wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:54 pm
It’s more the knife than the steel for me.
Me too
Me three :)

I enjoy checking out different steels but most of them are overkill for my needs. As long as it's sharp when I need it be then I'm good.
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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby Sharp Guy » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:20 pm

Sumdumguy wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:38 pm
I've passed on or sold many S30V knives.

Never have I passed because of VG-10.
I'm curious to know why you'd pass on S30V but not VG-10. I like 'em both and don't favor one over the other. So I'm interested in knowing why you'd pass on a knife because of S30V but not VG-10.
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Re: S30V, VG-10; But If I Had A Choice???

Postby JD Spydo » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:29 pm

Sharp Guy wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:20 pm
Sumdumguy wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:38 pm
I've passed on or sold many S30V knives.

Never have I passed because of VG-10.
I'm curious to know why you'd pass on S30V but not VG-10. I like 'em both and don't favor one over the other. So I'm interested in knowing why you'd pass on a knife because of S30V but not VG-10.
If that question is for me it's really simple. I just haven't had very good overall luck with S30V and it hasn't been just one isolated incident either. But I"ve always had great overall results with VG-10 even though it's not a favorite like M390 is but I still like it for hard use and for kitchen/culinary blades too. I just like a lot Crucible's other steels a lot better I guess is the simple answer. Just like a lot of people like different cars or washing machines.

Also I've recently had a couple of friends even agree with me about certain models they would like to own if they were offered in something other than S30V. I would love a Chockwe in S90V for sure.
Now there are a few Japan made Spyders ( however not nearly as many) that I would also want if they had better blade steels. But overall I've had better long term results with VG-10 than I have with S30V. I've had minor chipping problems with S30V too whereas I've never had that with VG-10.


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