Sent Brouwer in for bottoming out lock. Returned completely untouched

[5-by-5]

Spyderco’s first letter states (as near as I can make it out, it is much harder to read than the second letter for some reason) that they are pleased to offer you a complimentary refurbishment and sharpening if you provide the return shipping. It’s a form letter addressed to “Spyderco Customer” not to you. It now appears that Spyderco didn’t promise to repair anything either for money or for free.

Their second letter, which is much more readable than the first states:

“…is not replaceable under warranty or repairable to original factory condition. It has been sharpened and/or reconditioned as best as possible.”

Spyderco gets to make the call about warranty and repair work. You obviously disassembled, made major modifications then reassembled it. I would think that played a big part in their decision.

Also, they could sharpen or recondition or both. They seemed to have chosen only sharpening. So they weren’t inaccurate in their response.

From the evidence in the two letters I think you sent your knife for complimentary sharpening and refurbishment but now expect me to believe that wasn’t true, but that Spyderco promised you that they would fix it as you earlier stated saying “…Spyderco offered to fix it without charge.”

Perhaps you should post a clear and readable photo of that first letter addressed to “Spyderco Customer” so we can be certain of the conditions.

Finally, instead of making your case to Spyderco you make misleading, if not false statements here insinuating that the company does not honor their agreements. The evidence doesn’t support your continuing disparagement.

He also admits to disassembling several knives without trouble but his obsessive attempt to center this one caused very late lockup.

I've had has a very late lockup straight from the factory. The Brouwer just ended up a little worse for wear i guess because all the other ones stayed right where they were originally set.

Spyderco warranty shop is not a custom repair shop. Both forums have pinned threads about disassembling knives and shipping them back to retailers or Spyderco.

[knivesandbooks]

Spyderco’s first letter states (as near as I can make it out, it is much harder to read than the second letter for some reason) that they are pleased to offer you a complimentary refurbishment and sharpening if you provide the return shipping. It’s a form letter addressed to “Spyderco Customer” not to you. It now appears that Spyderco didn’t promise to repair anything either for money or for free.

Their second letter, which is much more readable than the first states:

“…is not replaceable under warranty or repairable to original factory condition. It has been sharpened and/or reconditioned as best as possible.”

Spyderco gets to make the call about warranty and repair work. You obviously disassembled, made major modifications then reassembled it. I would think that played a big part in their decision.

Also, they could sharpen or recondition or both. They seemed to have chosen only sharpening. So they weren’t inaccurate in their response.

From the evidence in the two letters I think you sent your knife for complimentary sharpening and refurbishment but now expect me to believe that wasn’t true, but that Spyderco promised you that they would fix it as you earlier stated saying “…Spyderco offered to fix it without charge.”

Perhaps you should post a clear and readable photo of that first letter addressed to “Spyderco Customer” so we can be certain of the conditions.

Finally, instead of making your case to Spyderco you make misleading, if not false statements here insinuating that the company does not honor their agreements. The evidence doesn’t support your continuing disparagement.

Thanks for typing this out so I don't have to.
I've had my complaints with Spyderco's warranty department. More complaints with theirs than others. But this isn't anything to complain about. Everything Michael said was right on. That first letter was basically the same thing you read on the warranty page of the website, just a different form. No promises made. They wanted to see the knife to determine it's fixability. It was likely too much to be fixed for a factory warranty team who don't have the time to file and tune. They likely saw replacing as the only option. But your knife isn't replaceable because of your tinkering. All seems fair to me.

Really interesting how when we're emotional we read what we want to read despite the neutral tone and clear text of a legalistic document. I see it a lot in my job.

Btw, I've multiple Spyderco framelocks that I've used for a few years. No lock issues or movement. Nothing wrong with their framelocks. I think they're one if the best out there making them.

[jarvis959]

Spyderco’s first letter states (as near as I can make it out, it is much harder to read than the second letter for some reason) that they are pleased to offer you a complimentary refurbishment and sharpening if you provide the return shipping. It’s a form letter addressed to “Spyderco Customer” not to you. It now appears that Spyderco didn’t promise to repair anything either for money or for free.

Their second letter, which is much more readable than the first states:

“…is not replaceable under warranty or repairable to original factory condition. It has been sharpened and/or reconditioned as best as possible.”

Spyderco gets to make the call about warranty and repair work. You obviously disassembled, made major modifications then reassembled it. I would think that played a big part in their decision.

Also, they could sharpen or recondition or both. They seemed to have chosen only sharpening. So they weren’t inaccurate in their response.

From the evidence in the two letters I think you sent your knife for complimentary sharpening and refurbishment but now expect me to believe that wasn’t true, but that Spyderco promised you that they would fix it as you earlier stated saying “…Spyderco offered to fix it without charge.”

Perhaps you should post a clear and readable photo of that first letter addressed to “Spyderco Customer” so we can be certain of the conditions.

Finally, instead of making your case to Spyderco you make misleading, if not false statements here insinuating that the company does not honor their agreements. The evidence doesn’t support your continuing disparagement.

Once again, there were multiple steps in which I confirmed they understood what the issue was and agreed to do warranty work. I can't transcribe the 2 calls I had with them but in both they confirmed they knew what the knife was being sent in for and that it wasn't just for "sharpening". The exact claim that the warranty rep gave me when it was returned to me and I followed up was that the warranty team had taken it apart and found lint on the lockface and that everything was fine after they removed it and put it back together. Clearly lint on a lockface doesnt cause it to completely bottom out on the other side and produce blade play. However, this DOES mean that they knew what the issue was and was planning on doing more than sharpening. I cant speak on and wont bother speculating why they thought removing lint was enough to fix lockup as i assume the warranty team is competent, but I genuinely dont hate spyderco and am not trying to make misleading and false claims about the company. I've tried to provide as much proof as i happen to have saved.

[curlyhairedboy]

Ideally, the replaceable nature of the lockbar insert would mean that when worn to this point, it could be replaced without needing to replace the whole knife...

[awa54]

Ideally, the replaceable nature of the lockbar insert would mean that when worn to this point, it could be replaced without needing to replace the whole knife...

Bingo!

This would have been a perfect response from Spyderco... you'd think that part would be something that W&R should have on hand right?

[JRinFL]

Ideally, the replaceable nature of the lockbar insert would mean that when worn to this point, it could be replaced without needing to replace the whole knife...

Bingo!

This would have been a perfect response from Spyderco... you'd think that part would be something that W&R should have on hand right?

There have been numerous posts about how W&R stocks no parts for the knives and cannot get them. The warranty is an "almost warranty" and does not conform to the warranties from other companies. If you have a knife with great sentimental value, do not send it in, IMO. Also, the lock bar insert seems to be a great idea, but if W&R does not have any to replace, then it only serves to increase the cost without adding the benefit of a longer service life. Of course, if you have the skills and equipment, you could make your own lockbar insert.

If I were the OP, I would carefully peen the lockbar to achieve an earlier lockup.

Edited for typo

[anycal]

Some time ago, I developed a late lockup on my Mantra, but no vertical blade play.

What worked for me, I pushed the insert forward while tightening it. Used a pin to wedge it between the insert and the back of lock bar, essentially forcing the insert forward. Loctite on the screws, and tightened as much as I could. It moved it just enough to give me a 50% lockup. Hasn't moved in couple of months.

Not the best pics...

[knivesandbooks]

Some time ago, I developed a late lockup on my Mantra, but no vertical blade play.

What worked for me, I pushed the insert forward while tightening it. Used a pin to wedge it between the insert and the back of lock bar, essentially forcing the insert forward. Loctite on the screws, and tightened as much as I could. It moved it just enough to give me a 50% lockup. Hasn't moved in couple of months.

That's cool!

[gull wing]

Peening the lockbar insert is a great idea. I've done that with non-insert lockbars (Strider), yes it works.

[ABX2011]

Good idea on the Mantra. I had that thought myself but I had never heard of anyone trying that.
Perhaps the OP could have similar success with his Brouwer. I think warranty let him down. Makes no sense for Spyderco not to stock parts.

[awa54]

There have been numerous posts about how W&R stocks no parts for the knives and cannot get them. The warranty is an "almost warranty" and does not conform to the warranties from other companies. If you have a knife with great sentimental value, do not send it in, IMO. Also, the lock bar insert seems to be a great idea, but if W&R does not have any to replace, than it only serves to increase the cost without adding the benefit of a longer service life. Of course, if you have the skills and equipment, you could make your own lockbar insert.

If I were the OP, I would carefully peen the lockbar to achieve an earlier lockup.

As much as I love Spyderco, *at the very least* they should have full parts stock for all current models on hand, or failing that, a significant number of reserve knives that can be given as replacements or cannibalized for parts. Having no meaningful after-sale parts support for a high quality product like a Spyderco knife is terrible policy IMO.

The thing that makes this more of an issue in my mind is the fact that the bar is set quite high by Spyderco's average quality, so our expectations is that the individual knife we buy will reflect that, that's certainly why I continue to buy the knives... If the OP's issue had popped up in a $50 or under "basic" folder, I'd say "whatever", it's not a product I'd expect to either get service for or to have last more than a few years of regular use anyway, but I expect more from Spyderco and from *any* major maker that sells a premium product line.

+1 on peening the bar insert as a solution.

[toocool006]

I am curious about the idea of peening the lockbar - how does that work? Can anyone link to an explanation / video of the process?

As far as I can guess, you would essentially be thinning out the front of the lockbar to make it slightly longer and thus lock-up earlier? Wouldn't there be concerns with the strength/integrity of the lock if so?

[Albatross]

I've peened the lockbar on a Delica before. It definitely eliminated all lock rock. I would be willing to bet lock bar insert peening would be much easier, given the thinner material, compared to a back lock. It's worth a try. I don't see why it wouldn't work very well and take only a few minutes, with disassembly and reassembly included in that short estimate.

[jarvis959]

Double post

[bearfacedkiller]

It doesn’t appear as though you modified the lock so they should have covered it in my opinion.

In my opinion you are not handling this appropriately.

It is a shame that two wrongs don’t make a right. Huh?

[JRinFL]

I am curious about the idea of peening the lockbar - how does that work? Can anyone link to an explanation / video of the process?

As far as I can guess, you would essentially be thinning out the front of the lockbar to make it slightly longer and thus lock-up earlier? Wouldn't there be concerns with the strength/integrity of the lock if so?

That is essentially correct. You are pushing metal near the edge to make the lockbar insert a bit longer. Strength might be compromised to a degree, but as to how much you'd likely need to test to destruction to find out. If it were mine I would do it, others might be more concerned about overall lock strength.

[awa54]

I am curious about the idea of peening the lockbar ...?

That is essentially correct. You are pushing metal near the edge to make the lockbar insert a bit longer. Strength might be compromised to a degree, but as to how much you'd likely need to test to destruction to find out. If it were mine I would do it, others might be more concerned about overall lock strength.

I've never done this specific repair before, but I'd suggest taping over the detent ball (or removing it and reinstalling after peening) so that if it pops out from the shock, or metal deformation, you don't have to find a replacement... 'cause something that small is *gone* when it flies across the room!

[jarvis959]

There have been numerous posts about how W&R stocks no parts for the knives and cannot get them. The warranty is an "almost warranty" and does not conform to the warranties from other companies. If you have a knife with great sentimental value, do not send it in, IMO. Also, the lock bar insert seems to be a great idea, but if W&R does not have any to replace, than it only serves to increase the cost without adding the benefit of a longer service life. Of course, if you have the skills and equipment, you could make your own lockbar insert.

If I were the OP, I would carefully peen the lockbar to achieve an earlier lockup.

As much as I love Spyderco, *at the very least* they should have full parts stock for all current models on hand, or failing that, a significant number of reserve knives that can be given as replacements or cannibalized for parts. Having no meaningful after-sale parts support for a high quality product like a Spyderco knife is terrible policy IMO.

The thing that makes this more of an issue in my mind is the fact that the bar is set quite high by Spyderco's average quality, so our expectations is that the individual knife we buy will reflect that, that's certainly why I continue to buy the knives... If the OP's issue had popped up in a $50 or under "basic" folder, I'd say "whatever", it's not a product I'd expect to either get service for or to have last more than a few years of regular use anyway, but I expect more from Spyderco and from *any* major maker that sells a premium product line.

+1 on peening the bar insert as a solution.

Wow! I cant believe ive never thought if this before. Id be worried about messing with the detent ball placement but I dont really have much faith in Spyderco warranty wanting to fix my knife at this point anyways

[gull wing]

I am curious about the idea of peening the lockbar - how does that work? Can anyone link to an explanation / video of the process?

As far as I can guess, you would essentially be thinning out the front of the lockbar to make it slightly longer and thus lock-up earlier? Wouldn't there be concerns with the strength/integrity of the lock if so?

No vids that i know of, but.....Lay lock lug on a anvil or heavy vice, hit the area you want to"stretch".
This is not rocket science, and there no guarantees.

[TazKristi]

Hi, jarvis959:
I spoke with Charlynn in W&R and it would seem that you have already had a follow-up discussion with her (perhaps just before you posted). In that conversation, Charlynn asked that you send your knife back in for further evaluation during our regular Warranty & Repair meeting (which includes several of us outside of W&R and several members of our management team). Charlynn told you that should it be determined that there is a warranty issue, we would credit you the cost of shipping it back to us.

I can assure you that your knife was not "returned completely untouched." The two members of our Warranty & Repair team are seasoned crew members. There seems to be some confusion though about what you refer to as "bottoming out." For us, "bottoming out" refers to the blade hitting something internal or a backspacer. Bottoming out would typically leave some kind of damage on the edge - there was no sign of this on your knife. Bottoming out is not related to the lock bar which is what I think you were primarily concerned with.

We couldn't see any issues with centering or blade play, but as you mentioned we did find lint inside your knife.

I'm not sure what you hoped to accomplish with this thread following your conversation with Charlynn yesterday, but we're happy to take another look at your knife. We just need you to send it back in.

I'd also like to remind others that when you read things on the forum, please remember you are reading one side of a story. Without full context, it's difficult to pass judgment.

Kristi