LC200N / Caribbean SE torture test gauntlet of death

[curlyhairedboy]

Thanks for the update!

[Mike Slayer]

Look at stone knives back in the day. They were literally serrated and had to be used a certain way vs modern plain edge steel knives. Steel serrated blades are much tougher and you don’t have to be as careful but even a completely serrated blade will work pretty **** well in bushcraft or survival type task.

[Evil D]

Look at stone knives back in the day. They were literally serrated and had to be used a certain way vs modern plain edge steel knives. Steel serrated blades are much tougher and you don’t have to be as careful but even a completely serrated blade will work pretty **** well in bushcraft or survival type task.

The issue is really about edge thickness. Even my best SE blade won't carve wood as well as a scandi blade because the edge is so much thinner on those knives. I wouldn't say SE is better or even "as good" as PE, this is really more than just comparing one edge type to the other. If you compared my Caribbean to a very thickly ground PE knife that's very thick behind the edge, then my Caribbean will definitely out carve it. Obviously if you're actually carving something for artistic purposes and not just making pointy sticks then PE is definitely better.

My point with this test was to prove that if you were stranded and only had a SE knife to make a shelter with, you absolutely could get it done. It really wouldn't make a difference if your sharpened sticks have serration marks in them.

[cabfrank]

Thanks for the info, and updates. Keep beating on that poor Caribbean!

[Mike Slayer]

Look at stone knives back in the day. They were literally serrated and had to be used a certain way vs modern plain edge steel knives. Steel serrated blades are much tougher and you don’t have to be as careful but even a completely serrated blade will work pretty **** well in bushcraft or survival type task.

The issue is really about edge thickness. Even my best SE blade won't carve wood as well as a scandi blade because the edge is so much thinner on those knives. I wouldn't say SE is better or even "as good" as PE, this is really more than just comparing one edge type to the other. If you compared my Caribbean to a very thickly ground PE knife that's very thick behind the edge, then my Caribbean will definitely out carve it. Obviously if you're actually carving something for artistic purposes and not just making pointy sticks then PE is definitely better.

My point with this test was to prove that if you were stranded and only had a SE knife to make a shelter with, you absolutely could get it done. It really wouldn't make a difference if your sharpened sticks have serration marks in them.

I guess what I was trying to say is a serrated edge could work in a pinch for wood or survival craft.

[Evil D]

Well the bamboo finally got dry enough that I felt it was hard enough to cut up.




I started out just whittling it. It whittles much the same as anything else depending on what part you're cutting. Being hollow and thinner than a tree branch makes it easier, but then the knots/joints are stupid hard and similar to a hardwood knot.




I tried to use a sawing motion straight into the side. This turned out to be incredibly difficult, since compared to an actual saw you aren't removing any material with each forward/backward stroke and eventually the blade wedged up to the point that it felt like I was going to splinter the bamboo in half.





Then I decided to baton through it...





No edge damage or significant dulling from either.






I figured I'd take the 4-5 feet or so I had left and whittle it down to nothing.




Quickly realized I better do something to try to contain the carvings...if anyone steps on one of these pieces barefoot it's going to be nasty...



The knots were a bit of a challenge..




After a couple feet of whittling, I'm starting to accept the fact that the Caribbean is not the best choice for whittling regardless of edge type. Maybe I even do need to toughen up my hands, I dunno. I can tell you that I go for it full on white knuckle style so this isn't gentle work.







So then I decided to take some of your advice and use the thumb ramp..




But it took all of about 20 cuts to realize this would end very poorly..



Maybe I do just have sissy hands




SO at this point I had a couple feet of bamboo left that I wanted to whittle through, I decided to put on the GLOVES OF SCIENCE! :rolleyes:



Aaaaaaand then I got rained out and gave up. I had this much left. Not bad I guess.







I can tell you with all certainty that bamboo will dull an edge like almost nothing else (not exactly uncommon knowledge). The edge had settled well into what you'd call a working edge, and while it probably would have kept cutting the bamboo for a good long while based on just edge geometry alone, it was struggling to slice paper which in my book is dull. It would still slice through phone book and printer paper, but it wouldn't push cut phone book and struggled to push cut printer paper. At this point I still have no doubt that the average person could have kept using this knife and it would have kept cutting just fine through a combination of working edge/edge geometry/serration action. It probably would have made it through any of the previous cut test I've done with no problem. If I hadn't been rained out I wouldn't have any problem finishing off that bamboo.


Inspecting the edge after all that, there was no rolling or chipping of any kind, and the edge still didn't even reflect light from any angle. It's interesting how bamboo dulled the edge without any chipping or rolling whatsoever, despite how some say this stuff is so horrible on an edge.






And since there was no edge damage of any kind, it might have taken all of 2 minutes to bring it back to tree topping sharp. I probably did about 30 passes each on the brown/fine/ultra fine rods and it's back to stupid sharp.

[The Meat man]

D, I have just one question.

What's the commission you get from Spyderco to sell these knives?

:p

Seriously, awesome work. Very impressive stuff!

[Evil D]

D, I have just one question.

What's the commission you get from Spyderco to sell these knives?

:p

Seriously, awesome work. Very impressive stuff!

Brother...not enough

[ladybug93]

that’s really impressive. this is one of the reasons i keep a pair of gloves in my bag. thanks again for all your testing and sharing.

[Bill1170]

I laughed out loud at the “GLOVES OF SCIENCE!” line. Too funny. A lesser man would have folded before that point.

Bamboo has a high silica content, like most other grasses do. It’s a fine abrasive all through the plant. This is why horses have teeth that keep on growing, like our fingernails. The grass wears them down.

[curlyhairedboy]

Good results! Hope you saved a bit of that bamboo for extra drying time. Give it 8 months and it'll be real hard.

[Evil D]

Good results! Hope you saved a bit of that bamboo for extra drying time. Give it 8 months and it'll be real hard.

I can get pretty much as much of it as I want so I'll get some and leave for a while.

[curlyhairedboy]

When it turns a dull concrete color, that's when it might kill a serration or two. Stuff even resists a hacksaw at that point.

[Woodpuppy]

Great test! I usually use a sawzall on the occasion I need to cut bamboo

[Theldraskien]

Has anyone heard anything on possible CQI restocks? Every time I look at this thread I realize that I need one of these in my life.

[VooDooChild]

Has anyone heard anything on possible CQI restocks? Every time I look at this thread I realize that I need one of these in my life.

As far as I can tell just about every dealer got restocked on Caribbeans within the last week. I have no idea if they are cqi or not, but I do have one in the mail. If I notice any differences between it and the older one I have, I will make a thread inquiring into any changes.

[sal]

Hi David,

I really appreciate the "Real-World-Testing". It's a lot of effort, for sure, but all of us that are looking at this "new steel" really need to know. I personally think that we are fortunate the group on this forum really pushes the envelope on learning about the new steels that are being developerd.

I guess the Caribbean is a "tough mutha". Now about that commission... :p

sal

[Evil D]

Hi David,

I really appreciate the "Real-World-Testing". It's a lot of effort, for sure, but all of us that are looking at this "new steel" really need to know. I personally think that we are fortunate the group on this forum really pushes the envelope on learning about the new steels that are being developerd.

I guess the Caribbean is a "tough mutha". Now about that commission... :p

sal

I really think you/Spyderco/Taichung hit a sweet spot on the shape of these serrations, because I'm not so sure some of my older production blades with different serration profiles could have done some of these tests without chipping the teeth. Much like the edge and blade grind geometry on any other knife or machete or axe, it seems to me the shape of the serrations has almost as much impact on edge damage as the type of steel does, and it definitely impacts performance in a huge way...my '09 production Military can't carve the way this Caribbean does because the teeth are so much thicker and the blade grind isn't as thin at the top of the serrations. Whether it was intentional or not, I think the Caribbean is the next step in SE performance.

The Caribbean design itself is definitely tough. Throughout all of these tests I haven't seen any signs of failure even after batoning with it twice now. If anything I might suggest looking into making the detent stronger, or maybe giving it the same pivot bushing that the current version of the Military has. Those are really the only two things I think could be improved on this knife, besides maybe some color variants. At the very least I think an all black DLC version would sell well.

LC200N seems almost too good to be true when you consider all the things it has going for it. It may be my favorite steel at this point, at least regarding serrations. If we could get H1 in full flat grind that might level the playing field a bit, but whatever edge retention advantage H1 may have over LC (for me) isn't worth the trade off in blade grind, I'll take LC/FFG every time.

As far as commission goes....all I ask is that you start producing more SE knives with the serrations ground like this Caribbean. I'm looking forward to the Rock Jumper, and I'm already daydreaming about a Salt version and I'm wondering which steel/blade grind it would get and I hope the serrations are ground the way the Caribbean is. It also wouldn't hurt if you make an XL version with a 3.75-4 inch blade

[Evil D]

How about some reckless wood carving? Something hard and seasoned. I don't suppose y'all have Osage Orange wood in your area do you?

I missed this post...I believe we do but not around my house anywhere. I know I've seen those things squashed in the streets around Cincinnati, I wasn't aware the wood was super hard though. I'll have to keep an eye out for them and see if I can get a branch to dry out and cut up.

[The Meat man]

How about some reckless wood carving? Something hard and seasoned. I don't suppose y'all have Osage Orange wood in your area do you?

I missed this post...I believe we do but not around my house anywhere. I know I've seen those things squashed in the streets around Cincinnati, I wasn't aware the wood was super hard though. I'll have to keep an eye out for them and see if I can get a branch to dry out and cut up.

It's roughly twice as hard as oak on the Janka wood hardness scale. Chopping it feels like flint. It's crazy hard and dense.

Edit to add: It burns super hot too, but it spits a lot of sparks.