Back lock action

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
JuPaul
Member
Posts: 1371
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:06 am

Back lock action

Postby JuPaul » Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:31 am

I don't want to hijack the Native Salt thread, so I'll start a new one. Some people on that thread mentioned having spydie back locks that can be flicked open with a pinkie, and have drop shut action. That was truly eye-opening to me! While I can thumb flick my well-broken-in back locks if I get the perfect up-and-forward angle, none of mine flick open as freely/easily as my spydie knives with any other type of lock. And I definitely can't flick them open with a middle finger or a pinkie, although I'm sure my smaller skinny hands are weaker than most men's hands. Still...I can use my middle finger to flick open all of my comp lock knives.

Also, none of my back locks have what I'd call drop-shut action (meaning if I disengage the lock with my fingers out of the blade path, the weight of the blade alone is enough to swing it all the way shut). Mine will all drop partially closed, which seems preferable to me since my fingers are in the blade path when one-handed closing a back lock. But none will fall all the way shut like on my Manix's, my Para3s, even my Lil' native.

I've owned probably 15 different spydie back locks at one point or another, and my experience has been the same with all of them: much stiffer action out of the box than on a comp lock or frame lock. The action will improve and break in over time, but will never be as easy to flick or drop shut as knives with those other locks.

I've always assumed this was just the nature of the back lock beast. Have I been wrong? What are your expectations and experiences with the action on spyderco back lock knives as compared to spyderco knives with other locks?
- Julia

"Be excellent to each other." - Bill S. Preston, Esq.

User avatar
Wartstein
Member
Posts: 4444
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:06 am
Location: Salzburg, Austria, Europe

Re: Back lock action

Postby Wartstein » Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:45 am

JuPaul wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:31 am
.... having spydie back locks that can be flicked open with a pinkie...
I´ll reply later in more detail (no time right now unfortunately), but since I was the one (or one of those) who stated that I can flick my backlocks with the pinky: Of course in a reverse grip! I say that, so that no one gets confused... ;)

Just briefly:
Yes, I CAN flick most of my backlocks open with all fingers, despite their action is no too loose
And, no, I don´t think that my backlocks drop shut all the way to "closed" when I hold the knife in line with the ground (so horizontal) and disengage the lock. They shut maybe halfways or a bit further (have to try when I am at home...)
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

User avatar
spoonrobot
Member
Posts: 636
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2007 10:37 am
Location: Smyrna, Georgia USA

Re: Back lock action

Postby spoonrobot » Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:28 am

I don't think it's possible for most (all?) back locks to swing all the way shut by blade weight alone (without centripetal assistance) since the kicker serves as enough of a stop.

Regardless for almost all of my back locks if I release the lock the blade will fall until the tang rotates around to the kicker. It's easier with saber grinds or heavier blades (E3/D3, early E4/D4, Salts, etc) but only the few NIB pinned models I have don't do it.

User avatar
Coffeetron
Member
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:56 pm
Location: Austria

Re: Back lock action

Postby Coffeetron » Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:55 am

My N5 is somewhat tighter and I can't flick it open with fingers other than my thumb unless using more force than I'd like. It does not drop shut at all either.

IMO the mechanism works exactly the way I want. If possible I would want to avoid knives that drop shut easily for the sake of security, especially if someone else uses them - usually my wife.

User avatar
GiftedMisfit
Member
Posts: 662
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:20 am
Location: Ontario, Canada. Earth

Re: Back lock action

Postby GiftedMisfit » Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:31 am

I dont think 'drop shut' means that it drops 100% closed with back locks. More like 50-60% then rotate and assist manually. Only speaking from experience.
Last edited by GiftedMisfit on Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:33 am, edited 2 times in total.
:spyder: James :spyder:

James Y
Member
Posts: 1404
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
Location: Southern CA

Re: Back lock action

Postby James Y » Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:32 am

Some of my Spyderco back locks fall partway shut when the lock bar is depressed, and others require a little wrist shake, sometimes even between two of the same model. It all depends on the individual knife. I wouldn’t want a back lock that could fall all almost the way shut when unlocking. I’ve had that happen once with a Cold Steel Tri-ad lock, and the edge fell shut right on the last knuckle of my right index finger, cutting the tendon. I lost 4 months of work (I’m a massage therapist) and required physical therapy. That was back in 2015. My finger works normally now, but the last joint does not extend to the same degree that it did before. But I was lucky; it could have been MUCH worse. Having a free-swinging blade slam shut on your finger is no joke.

Even with my compression lock knives, I depress the locking liner with my middle finger and push/guide it shut with my index finger, then thumb, rather than drop-shut it. The action is rather quick, smooth and intuitive, and much safer, IMO, than drop-shutting it. Because all it takes is a momentary lapse in attention to have a costly accident.

As for flicking back locks open, I can do it with almost all my Spyderco back locks, but don’t do it anymore. Hard-flicking folders open is a good way to mess up the tolerances over time.

Jim

JuPaul
Member
Posts: 1371
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:06 am

Re: Back lock action

Postby JuPaul » Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:43 am

GiftedMisfit wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:31 am
I dont think 'drop shut' means that it drops 100% closed with back locks. More like 50-60% then rotate and assist manually. Only speaking from experience.
I wondered if people might have different definitions of "drop shut" for back locks. Maybe half of mine will freely drop about 50% closed, the others require a little wrist action to bump the blade forward. All of that is totally fine by me, as I wouldn't want the blade to be able to drop onto my fingers (even though I keep my index finger high on the handle when I disengage the lock, so it catches the ricasso and keeps my other fingers safe).
- Julia

"Be excellent to each other." - Bill S. Preston, Esq.

AccountDeletedUserRequest
Member
Posts: 6612
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:15 am

Re: Back lock action

Postby AccountDeletedUserRequest » Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:13 am

Three ways you can close Spyderco lockbacks with one hand

https://streamable.com/2rzwf

My lockbacks drop shut 100% of the way, if I fully depress the lock release. If you only partially depress it, that is what prevents them from closing all the way.

I can open and close them by flicking them, or by depressing the lock release and swinging them open and shut like in the video.

Maybe when I get home later I'll go through my collection of backlocks and show them all doing the same thing.

I can do all of this with a triad lock too.

User avatar
JonLeBlanc
Member
Posts: 1107
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 8:00 am
Location: Louisiana

Re: Back lock action

Postby JonLeBlanc » Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:25 am

I can thumb and middle finger flick my Police4 and Goddard Sprint, but it does obviously take more force than a comp lock does. You can try (if this is something you want to do) giving the knife an ever-so-slight rock in the direction of the blade's travel, and that *should* overcome the resistance to the blade swinging open all the way. Of course, now that I write this, I reckon you already figured that out for yourself lol. I kinda like the closing bias of back locks, feels secure I suppose.
My collection so far: 52100 Military (2); 52100 PM2 (2); 52100 Para3; Stretch2 V-Toku; KnifeWorks M4 PM2; BentoBox M390 PM2; BentoBox S90V Military; Police4 K390; S110V PM2; SS Delica AUS-6; Wayne Goddard Sprint VG-10
Wish list: Hundred Pacer; Sliverax; Mantra; 52100 PM2 SE; Kapara

DukeBrnz
Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue May 14, 2019 11:27 am

Re: Back lock action

Postby DukeBrnz » Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:44 am

I’ve never really tried flicking with anything but my thumb, I’m kinda boring like that, but I’m all my backlocks except one the blade flies open with barely any more effort than my Military. When I talk about a drop shut backlock I just mean the blade falls on it’s own when I disengage the lock. It usually just falls till the kick or choil hits my index finger. On a very light blade like a DF2 it won’t fall.

User avatar
Larry_Mott
Member
Posts: 2100
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:00 am
Location: Helsingborg, Sweden

Re: Back lock action

Postby Larry_Mott » Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:11 pm

My Wayne Goddard Jr. My Calypso Jr is the same but i don't have a video of it.

https://youtu.be/0eTA7oEuGvs
"Life is fragile - we should take better care of each other, and ourselves - every day!"
//Eva Mott R.I.P.

JuPaul
Member
Posts: 1371
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:06 am

Re: Back lock action

Postby JuPaul » Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:30 pm

Vivi wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:13 am
Three ways you can close Spyderco lockbacks with one hand

https://streamable.com/2rzwf

My lockbacks drop shut 100% of the way, if I fully depress the lock release. If you only partially depress it, that is what prevents them from closing all the way.

I can open and close them by flicking them, or by depressing the lock release and swinging them open and shut like in the video.

Maybe when I get home later I'll go through my collection of backlocks and show them all doing the same thing.

I can do all of this with a triad lock too.
Yes, I always close mine with one hand, never a problem. But I do see what you mean about fully depressing the lock release - when I push it down in my usual way there is maybe 1 mm still exposed above the scales, and that does prevent the blade from swinging freely past roughly 50% closed. But as I sit here fiddling with my delica, there is still enough friction at the pivot - even with the lock bar fully depressed - to stop it from dropping shut. Maybe the delica's blade just isn't heavy enough to overcome the friction. Maybe a different lube would make a difference (I use BM blue lube).

Anyhow, I don't see the need to have that free-swing-to-close action on a back lock since I always stop the blade from falling with my index finger on the ricasso, then move my fingers out of the way and close the blade fully with my thumb.
- Julia

"Be excellent to each other." - Bill S. Preston, Esq.

JuPaul
Member
Posts: 1371
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:06 am

Re: Back lock action

Postby JuPaul » Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:35 pm

Larry_Mott wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:11 pm
My Wayne Goddard Jr. My Calypso Jr is the same but i don't have a video of it.

https://youtu.be/0eTA7oEuGvs
Wow. My delicas and df's will not do that. I'm definitely thinking the weight of the blade plays a role.

Edit: come to think of it, I'm pretty sure my manix back lock would do that - it definitely falls closed much more freely than any other back lock I have. I've just never tried to drop it fully shut before since my fingers are in the way. Will have to test that...
Last edited by JuPaul on Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Julia

"Be excellent to each other." - Bill S. Preston, Esq.

AccountDeletedUserRequest
Member
Posts: 6612
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:15 am

Re: Back lock action

Postby AccountDeletedUserRequest » Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:41 pm

Personally I prefer NOT to have a free swinging blade. On all my screw construction Pacific Salts, I've tightened them to the point that there is extra resistance when opening and closing them. I do this to make them as safe to carry IWB as I can while still being reasonable to open.

I'm testing out a GIF program on my phone.....

Image

If your lockback can't do this, here's some steps you can take:

1. Make sure the lock interface is clean
2. Lube
3. Loosen the pivot until it's sloppy with lots of play. Slowly tighten it and check the action every quarter turn. As soon as you feel extra resistance, loosen it back up a touch then leave it.
4. Make sure it's broken in. Lockbacks change significantly compared to liner locks and compression locks after the first 1,000 cycles. You have to keep that in mind.

User avatar
Wartstein
Member
Posts: 4444
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:06 am
Location: Salzburg, Austria, Europe

Re: Back lock action

Postby Wartstein » Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:10 pm

Vivi wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:41 pm
P
Image

If your lockback can't do this, here's some steps you can take:
Mine can do it! :D

Ok, tbh cause it fits the thread, I want to take the opportunity to also post the very first and still only three videos I´ve ever recorded.
Topic is also some methods how to close backlocks one handed. On each vid initially done very slow, than how I do it normally
Perhaps still helpfull for some...?

https://streamable.com/j7fjd

https://streamable.com/bhhzs

https://streamable.com/myzlt
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

JuPaul
Member
Posts: 1371
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:06 am

Re: Back lock action

Postby JuPaul » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:25 am

So...I ordered one of the clearance SE pac salts, and it arrived today. It flips open and drops freely shut perfectly out of the box, in a way none of my delicas, dfs, or natives have ever done. Perhaps it's just a perfectly tuned sample, but I suspect blade weight plays a big role in all this. The pac salt outweighs the delica by 0.5 ozs, and I suspect that's nearly all in the blade, and maybe that is enough to overcome any friction at the pivot - no break in required. Just a theory...
- Julia

"Be excellent to each other." - Bill S. Preston, Esq.

User avatar
DOUBLE D
Member
Posts: 116
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2018 2:44 pm

Re: Back lock action

Postby DOUBLE D » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:48 am

JuPaul wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:25 am
So...I ordered one of the clearance SE pac salts, and it arrived today. It flips open and drops freely shut perfectly out of the box, in a way none of my delicas, dfs, or natives have ever done. Perhaps it's just a perfectly tuned sample, but I suspect blade weight plays a big role in all this. The pac salt outweighs the delica by 0.5 ozs, and I suspect that's nearly all in the blade, and maybe that is enough to overcome any friction at the pivot - no break in required. Just a theory...
I also just got one, and had the same thought you did about the blade weight. I bet a saber ground endura would do the same

JuPaul
Member
Posts: 1371
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:06 am

Re: Back lock action

Postby JuPaul » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:56 am

DOUBLE D wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:48 am
JuPaul wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:25 am
So...I ordered one of the clearance SE pac salts, and it arrived today. It flips open and drops freely shut perfectly out of the box, in a way none of my delicas, dfs, or natives have ever done. Perhaps it's just a perfectly tuned sample, but I suspect blade weight plays a big role in all this. The pac salt outweighs the delica by 0.5 ozs, and I suspect that's nearly all in the blade, and maybe that is enough to overcome any friction at the pivot - no break in required. Just a theory...
I also just got one, and had the same thought you did about the blade weight. I bet a saber ground endura would do the same
Sure would make sense. I've only ever carried smaller sized back locks (with the exception of one manix bl, which also drops shut easily) so haven't really experienced the range of back locks with heavier blades before.
- Julia

"Be excellent to each other." - Bill S. Preston, Esq.

AccountDeletedUserRequest
Member
Posts: 6612
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:15 am

Re: Back lock action

Postby AccountDeletedUserRequest » Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:18 pm

Heavier blades definitely swing more easily. My Voyager XL free swings with ease. In fact I can pop it open without touching the blade or stud, just using inertia from a wrist flick.

User avatar
Pelagic
Member
Posts: 2440
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:49 pm
Location: East Coast/Nomadic

Re: Back lock action

Postby Pelagic » Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:39 pm

I NEVER want a free swinging blade on a backlock. It can be dangerous and I prefer the pivot aiding the lock for stability when open. It reduces future blade play.
Pancake wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:20 pm
Are you a magician? :eek:
Nate wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:32 pm
You're the lone wolf of truth howling into the winds of ignorance
Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:17 pm
You are a nobody got it?


Return to “Spyderco General Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ankerson, Bdubs808, DLTJordan, Lumpy620, moldawe, mpgtsm, MSN [Bot], Theldraskien, TkoK83Spy and 63 guests