What is detail work????

[BornIn1500]

Delete... double post.

[vivi]

The Caribbean is a perfect example of how a choil is unnecessary. With a handle designed with the guard all the way at the end, you're as "choked up" as you could ever want to be. And it's done without compromising edge length. The only way choils make sense to me is with very small knives.

I suspect the cries for eliminating the finger choil in order to get a small increase in edge length is a solution looking for a problem.

I think the opposite. I think shuffling back the finger guard and adding a choil was a solution looking for a problem.

Exactly. Choils let you choke up.....the same amount as the Tenacious or Caribbean handle.....

[jpm2]

The top picture is a hammer grip with thumb extended. I don't believe I've ever used a knife with that grip. What's the purpose of your thumb extended?

I know for sure I've never used a knife with grip in 2nd picture. I don't see any fingers underneath for support. This would be very unstable for my use. I need at least 2 fingers wrapped underneath, preferably 3.

The top one is a grip I never use, but I've seen many other members post here.

My pinch is strong enough to support the knife like the second picture shows. I only use that grip for light work like cutting out a magazine article or cutting tape on a box.

I think when showing off a knife, like for pictures here, it's rarely held like it would as used, I'm guilty of that myself.

Hmm, I've got a nice strong grip myself, but if there's room for it, I support the knife from all 4 directions, and possibly a 5th if the handle is short enough.

[sok]

Compare the Salt 2 to the Delica 4. They're using the same basic design so that is what we should expect for the next pac salt (the pac salt currently uses an endura 3 handle). Won't be a complete redesign. And I'm pretty sure that adding a choil would make a whole new model, not a pac salt 2. I like choils, but plenty of people don't.

I know. I am in no way under the impression or have the delusion that the Pacific Salt 2 will have a choil. I was just wishing. I also understand the nashing of teeth it would cause if it were to occur. We all have a perfect knife in our head that will probably never happen. Mine is the PS with a choil.
Pacific Salt choil

[Wartstein]

I've said it before (many times) and say it again:

No problem at all to choke up on a Ricasso (like the Endura or Pac Salt have), it is as comfortable and safe as choking up on a dedicated choil.
Same goes for choking up on the EDGE itself: No problem, even on a shaving sharp one.

I do both all the time, never ever hurt myself by doing so.

[MichaelScott]

Manix, Stretch 2, Shaman, Sage, Chaparral, Para 3, Para Military 2, Native, Lil’ Native, Dragonfly, Cali, Chicago, Efficient, Emphasis, Insistent, Kiwi, Oroboros, Parata, Perrin, Q-Ball, Smock.

These have choils. Many are staples in Spyderco’s lineup. Many others don’t have choils. There are options either way. One style is not inherently better than another even though some folks would have us think so. I like discussion but not fond of declarations based on personal preferences.

[Albatross]

Manix, Stretch 2, Shaman, Sage, Chaparral, Para 3, Para Military 2, Native, Lil’ Native, Dragonfly, Cali, Chicago, Efficient, Emphasis, Insistent, Kiwi, Oroboros, Parata, Perrin, Q-Ball, Smock.

These have choils. Many are staples in Spyderco’s lineup. Many others don’t have choils. There are options either way. One style is not inherently better than another even though some folks would have us think so. I like discussion but not fond of declarations based on personal preferences.

Exactly

[vivi]

These have choils. Many are staples in Spyderco’s lineup. Many others don’t have choils. There are options either way. One style is not inherently better than another even though some folks would have us think so. I like discussion but not fond of declarations based on personal preferences.

I suspect the cries for eliminating the finger choil in order to get a small increase in edge length is a solution looking for a problem.

Well.......seems someone has been making bold declarations......

[Jazz]

I consider how I choke up and put my index finger on top front of my Delica wharnie’s blade to help not cut too deep in boxes I’m opening, detail work. The ricasso is better than a choil - perfect on this knife. Big *** blades for such things are stupid, in my opinion, unless you have big *** hands.

Why won’t this let me type the word a$$, when I read actual curse words in others’ posts?

[jpm2]

I consider how I choke up and put my index finger on top front of my Delica wharnie’s blade to help not cut too deep in boxes I’m opening, detail work. The ricasso is better than a choil - perfect on this knife. Big *** blades for such things are stupid, in my opinion, unless you have big *** hands.

Why won’t this let me type the word a$$, when I read actual curse words in others’ posts?

Right, it's not how big it is, it's how you use it.

I don't think they allow Canadians to cuss here.

[SG89]

I don't think they allow Canadians to cuss here.

[Ez556]

I use choils, but not generally for “detailed work”. For that, I’m up on the blade past the choil.

Now, I like choils ... but I use them for the opposite, for rough work. Like cutting a fat piece of wood away from yourself, as an example. The index finger in the choil takes pressure away from the Pivot...

The other day I used my Manix 2 LW to cut off a pretty thick branch from a tree, and I did so using the choil. Same when I’m whittling away on a branch or something, choking up close to where I’m putting force helps greatly.

Mostly, however, they serve the VERY IMPORTANT role of creating a longer grip in a smaller knife. I would have no use for the dragonfly or the Lil native or any number of smaller knives if they didn't magically become 'larger handled' when opened.

This is where choils are most important, making a small knife feel big. My Lil’ Native feels the same as my Manix 2 LW in hand choked up, and it’s a great feat. I can see where it would help a “big knife feel small”, but the utility of such is less than the reverse in my eyes. I couldn’t imagine a Lil’ Native, Cat etc. without choils. Choils on non-locking blades is very important as well.

The Caribbean is a perfect example of how a choil is unnecessary. With a handle designed with the guard all the way at the end, you're as "choked up" as you could ever want to be. And it's done without compromising edge length.

And this is where I fall for the most part when it comes to blades longer than 2.5-3”. If the handle is big enough to fit on without a choil, I’d rather have the extra blade length given the choice. Cutting apples today for the kids at the orchard, the choil got in the way more than anything on my Manix. If I could delete it in that moment to have an edge that went all the way to the handle, I would have. And the Manix 2 LW is my favorite knife. I use the choil on my Manix to get my hand as close to the blade as I would if I just held the handle normally on a Carribean or Tenacious, and with that in mind I would definitely take the extra blade length over the choil given the choice.

[Wartstein]

....

These have choils. Many are staples in Spyderco’s lineup. Many others don’t have choils. There are options either way. One style is not inherently better than another even though some folks would have us think so. I like discussion but not fond of declarations based on personal preferences.

Michael, just because you posted this right below my last post, where I said that (for me!) it is no problem to choke up on choil or even actual edge (see also here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85026), I assume a bit your statement could be (also) adressed to me (?):
If so: Let me be clear: By saying that I personally have no problem with choking up on a (Endura style-) Ricasso, I did not want to transport in any way that I am "against choils" or even that I "don´t understand people who like choils".
I myself DO, for example on my Chap, but also on the Stretch 1: On the latter I even think the choked-up-on-the-choil-grip is even better than the "regular" one (and that is saying something, for the Stretch is an ergonomic masterpiece...)

[MichaelScott]

....

These have choils. Many are staples in Spyderco’s lineup. Many others don’t have choils. There are options either way. One style is not inherently better than another even though some folks would have us think so. I like discussion but not fond of declarations based on personal preferences.

Michael, just because you posted this right below my last post, where I said that (for me!) it is no problem to choke up on choil or even actual edge (see also here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85026), I assume a bit your statement could be (also) adressed to me (?):
If so: Let me be clear: By saying that I personally have no problem with choking up on a (Endura style-) Ricasso, I did not want to transport in any way that I am "against choils" or even that I "don´t understand people who like choils".
I myself DO, for example on my Chap, but also on the Stretch 1: On the latter I even think the choked-up-on-the-choil-grip is even better than the "regular" one (and that is saying something, for the Stretch is an ergonomic masterpiece...)

Dear Wartstein, no, my post was not intended for you. I try to quote posts to which I am responding. Mine was merely a general comment on those who will declare their opinions to be the only acceptable ones. I am sorry if you took my post as meant for you.

[wrdwrght]

Whenever I feel the urge to index the choil/notch or pinch the ricasso, something I’m doing is telling me to lessen the blade-tip’s arc of travel. Whatever that “something” is what marks the beginning of “detail work” for me. As need for detail increases, I might go farther tipward with a pinch grip.