Newbie with knife steel question...

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constructor
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Newbie with knife steel question...

Postby constructor » Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:39 am

Hello Im fairly new and a little overwhelmed to my research on knife specs and steel info so I thought Id just ask a few questions for finding me the best EDC/working knife. For simplicity sake and general understanding Ill just say that my job is basically a general contractor in a very humid environment. Im am wanting a Para2 but am not sure of what steel would be best for me. Everytime I find a thread that says this or that about a steel I find another that seems to contradict some of the info. So what Im looking for is a steel that can cut various objects with minimal honing. Possibly get the blade in a little bind, (side pressure) but come out unscathed. Less prone to rusting then D2, and would likely handle food prep at lunch with minimal clean up. Right now Ive got several knifes that just float around and are just a pain to keep up with. So I was thinking of a good all around general contractor themed Para2. I was pretty interested in the LC200N but I dont see it in a para2 and not sure if other steels would not be better especially if they had a coated blade, like the 4v, s35n, cruwear, maxamet, etc?

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JonLeBlanc
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Re: Newbie with knife steel question...

Postby JonLeBlanc » Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:14 pm

Coatings like DLC may help you in a humid environment, especially if you can't always stop to clean your blade off thoroughly (although I live in great humidity and use almost exclusively non-stainless so take that as you will). A steel like S30V is inexpensive (many stock models), and has a decent balance of corrosion resistance with strength and edge-holding. Also, your looking at the PM2 is a good choice! Oh and welcome to the forum :cool:
My collection so far: 52100 Military (2); 52100 PM2 (2); 52100 Para3; Stretch2 V-Toku; KnifeWorks M4 PM2; BentoBox M390 PM2; BentoBox S90V Military; Police4 K390; S110V PM2; SS Delica AUS-6; Wayne Goddard Sprint VG-10
Wish list: Hundred Pacer; Sliverax; Mantra; 52100 PM2 SE; Kapara

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sal
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Re: Newbie with knife steel question...

Postby sal » Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:15 pm

Hi Constructor,

Welcome to our forum. One of the main attractions of the knife industry is that it is very vast. Steel performance and chemistry alone can be a life time study. Add that to materials, geometries, ergonomics, history, geography, etc., it is easy to see why one would be overwhelmed.

The simple answer to your question, though there is really no perfect simple answer, is the Para 2 or Military , and S30V is one of the more all around blade steels, as it was specifically developed for knife blades with knife makers involved in its development.

If you choose to become more involved in this extraordinary industry, greater knowledge and more experimentation might yield a more effective solution.

sal

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Wartstein
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Re: Newbie with knife steel question...

Postby Wartstein » Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:18 pm

constructor wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:39 am
Hello Im fairly new and a little overwhelmed ...
Welcome to the forum, constructor!

If you like LC200N and the compression lock of the PM 2 I´d suggest considering the Caribbean! I hear only good things about this model, you can get it in leaf shape, sheepsfoot and serrated (which I would prefer) and plain edge! It looks to feature a great, neutral handle and you get a lot of actual cutting edge for the overall package!

I don´t own a Caribbean, but the only reason for that is that I am just an old backlock-guy... :rolleyes:
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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ferider
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Re: Newbie with knife steel question...

Postby ferider » Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:19 pm

Welcome !

Blade coatings don't necessarily prevent rust, there are contradicting reports, I guess it depends on what exactly corrodes the steel.

D2 is more corrosion resistant than most tool steels, like 4v, maxamet, etc. So I think you want real stainless. And on the tougher side (side pressure). Probably the toughest stainless you can get the PM2 in today, is M390/20CV. The BBS blue M390 PM2 is still available: http://www.bentoboxshop.com/images/PE_B ... itary2.jpg. Not cheap, but great knife.

Now, I'm sure many here will suggest to get an LC200N knife like the Carribean instead, but M390 is less maintenance for sure (you said "minimal honing"), unless you are an Ocean diver.

Roland.

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Re: Newbie with knife steel question...

Postby carrot » Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:36 pm

S30V will still rust but not nearly as rust-prone as D2. If you sweat like me in the summer and subject your knives all day to that you might start to see some light rust spots but I would normally not worry about it. The DLC-coated blades will be more rust-resistant than the uncoated blades, at least in my experience.

Don't buy S110V. It's, as far as I'm concerned, essentially rust-proof, and stays sharp for a very, very long time. But if you torque the blade you could snap it. It's a lot more brittle than S30V and S30V _used_ to have a reputation for being brittle. (S30V, when heat treated right, really isn't very brittle.) @ferider is right that M390 or 20CV is one of the toughest steels with good corrosion resistance.

But I think you'd still do well with S30V. It's a good all-around steel. Sharpen it occasionally and it'll never let you down. Most aficionados no longer regard S30V as a super-steel because of all the new steels people are going wild for. But it's still a great steel.

And I'm not sure I'd prep food with the same knife I use on dusty drywall. Maybe you need two?

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Re: Newbie with knife steel question...

Postby Hopweaver » Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:54 pm

If I were going to have a construction knife it would be a Manix 2 S30V. Hands down the best knife for the job. It is a tank! And can handle anything thrown at it on the job. Plus has thicker blade stock near the tip, making it better for the occasional 'side pressure'. Although I never promote that for a knife. It is meant to cut, other tools do side pressure.
:spyder: Make time for the important things in life, and learn to enjoy the little things more. :spyder:

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Re: Newbie with knife steel question...

Postby The Mastiff » Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:14 pm

Yes, I'm also thinking S30V would be best in your case along with S35Vn. Either would be fine and my first recommendation to you. If you want better corrosion resistance than D2 you should probably go with a stainless blade. M390 has greater wear resistance than S30V but generally would be a bit less tough.

joe

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Re: Newbie with knife steel question...

Postby The Meat man » Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:15 pm

Welcome to the forum constructor. :)

I think your best choices among Paramilitary 2's would be either the M390 version available from Bento Box Shop, or the standard production CPM S30V model. Both are good, well-balanced stainless steels.

For compete corrosion resistance, there is (as has been mentioned) the Caribbean. I would also recommend highly the Autonomy 2, if your jurisdiction allows it.
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legOFwhat?
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Re: Newbie with knife steel question...

Postby legOFwhat? » Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:29 pm

You're probably gonna end up with multiple Spydies if you hang around here anyway, so I just wanna say welcome to the forum. :D

If I may suggest, a small pocket pry bar instead of torquing a $100+ knife.
-Larry

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DSH007
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Re: Newbie with knife steel question...

Postby DSH007 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:41 pm

It sounds to me like the gist of what you are looking for is the most corrosion resistant PM2 possible. As others have mentioned, M390/20CV are great steels and among the most corrosion resistant PM2 variants presently offered. Can't go wrong with either, if you can get your hands on them.

That said, if you are interested in saving a little bit of money on the base model, the corrosion resistance of S30V is probably perfectly sufficient for your needs, if you are willing to put in a little bit of common sense maintenance work.. at the very least, wipe your knife down, don't put it away wet, a dab of oil/lube here and there, etc.

Anyways.. welcome to the forum and good luck on your search!
Rick H.

..well, that escalated quickly..

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Dazen
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Re: Newbie with knife steel question...

Postby Dazen » Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:51 pm

I believe the PM2 itself is the perfect Spyderco to start with, there isn’t thing I would change about it. The Bento Box M390 would be a fantastic way to start but it is a bit more expensive depending on your budget. The Shaman has similar ergos and is a bit more “pryable” with the thicker blade. It can also be had in s30v as well.

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Re: Newbie with knife steel question...

Postby AccountDeletedUserRequest » Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:57 pm

Get the DLC S30V version. The DLC coating adds a lot of rust resistance. A lot! S30V is a great stainless steel, but any stainless is possible to rust riding around in a sweaty pocket on a warm day.

I've worked a lot of physical labor jobs outside in the heat, and if it isn't DLC coated, I'll rust it.

By the way take a look at the Manix XL in DLC. It's a little bigger and heavier than a Para 2, but for my uses it works a little better.

constructor
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Re: Newbie with knife steel question...

Postby constructor » Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:04 pm

I have thought about the Manix variants too. So funneling the steels down looks like the Caribbean lc200n, Manix2 in s30v and Para2's in s30v and m390. I found the PM2 in s35vn or the coated s35vn so the s35vn probably trumps the s30v's I guess? Coated and non-coated m390's, since it was mentioned that its less maintenance/up keep than the lc200n steel. The best choices running seem to be the coated s35vn and m390/20cv, correct? I also do not mind spending more money or waiting a little if need be in order to get a better performing knife/steel.

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Re: Newbie with knife steel question...

Postby JuPaul » Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:14 pm

One other option available now is in s35vn steel, which is very similar to s30v, some argue slightly better. Stainless, good balance of toughness and edge retention.

https://www.bladehq.com/item--Spyderco- ... arth--9775

The link is for the satin blade version, but there is also a dlc-coated version. You might have to look at a few other places to find that one as I think it's sold out at that dealer.
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sal
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Re: Newbie with knife steel question...

Postby sal » Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:58 pm

Hey Constructor,

Which need ranks higher, Edge retention of Corrosion resistance? I spent some time in construction and for me, not having my knife go dull was more important.

sal

constructor
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Re: Newbie with knife steel question...

Postby constructor » Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:41 pm

Edge retention, which was why I was thinking a coated blade on both with an oil regiment would really pretty much nullify the rust issues? Ive also come across a used pm2 in rex45???

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Re: Newbie with knife steel question...

Postby Chris_P_Bacon » Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:56 pm

Hi Constructor,

I think you're going to love the PM2 Model. Now it's just a matter of deciding on a steel.
As Ferider and others have echoed M390, 20CV, and 204P are all pretty much the same steel from different foundry's.

The Bento Box blue M390 is what I chose for that use years ago, in the hot and humid Florida area. Below is no glamour shot, nor was it intended to be. Just an honest pic of a well abused, and neglected construction user.

I jam this blade in drywall when my drywall saw is in the work van (never torqueing the blade sideways however). I cut data wire with it when my snips aren't with me on the scissor lift. I'll shove it in an access hole to cut insulation from the back, all the while the edge is rubbing up against unsmooth metal. Also, gets called in to cut pallet straps, zip ties, and all sorts of things that I have other tools for, it's just quicker sometimes to use the knife, because it's always with me.

I don't bat an eye at using this $200 knife to abuse the living hell out of, it was purchased for this exact purpose. Plus with so many backups of steel in that same family, there's really no fear if it gives up the ghost one day.

Oh, and the reason mines so dark, crappy phone photo, and left Bar Keepers Friend in a water mixture (as a paste) on the blade for 12 hours. Only intended to leave it on there for five minutes, but friends showed up, with beer, and well, the cleaning job kinda went sideways. :D

Image
The rust specs are from metal shavings from electrical and energy management panels we drill into frequently. Never had a spec of rust with this steel from sweat (for what that's worth). Hope that helps!

And,

Welcome to the forum.
Currently have 147 :spyder: 's in 40 different steels.
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Shapton Glass 1000,6000. Suehiro Rika 5000. Shapton Pro 320,1000,2000,5000,8000.
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Dazen
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Re: Newbie with knife steel question...

Postby Dazen » Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:04 pm

I’m getting a kick out of this thread. Constructor may or may not know how fortunate he is to have Mr Sal Glesser commenting on his thread.

Constructor, my advice is take whatever Sal says and go with it. He might just know more than everyone on here combined about knives.

sok
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Re: Newbie with knife steel question...

Postby sok » Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:10 pm

Also, pickup a Spyderco Tri-Angle Sharpmaker and learn the micro-bevel process.


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