S30V
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S30V
S30V a report.
After having owned many models of knives with S30V and experiencing it daily in use I grew disappointed with it.
Honestly it is not the best choice for all models. In my opinion it has great all around characteristics but fails to excel as a blanket steel for all models, mostly because once you experience steels like Cruwear or VG-10 you look at S30V and go hey man not cool why can’t I get a super sharp edge like Cruwear? Or VG10?
The Sharp maker alone doesn’t not in my experience bring out the best in this steel at all, which I will try to offer a better solution below in conjunction with the sharpmaker.
The sharpmaker has it’s place to be sure.
There are other steels that also exhibit great all around characteristics and would do much better in all models as a blanket uniform base steel. VG-10 is one such steel.
As we can see Spyderco uses it in many models, I have yet to be disappointed with it in any model I have purchased.
Why is this?
Well VG10 is the perfect companion steel for the sharp-maker they work wonderfully together.
S30V requires proper tools and education to get really sharp. Only recently after 7 years of owning S30V knives have I figured it out.
I have used guided systems like the Wicked Edge Pro 3 and all the way down to sub micron pastes and wood strop paddles.
I have brought out scratch-less mirror bevels.
I have also never been pleased with the results.
In the last year or so thanks to this forum, many members especially Evil D and Vivi mostly with added help from Pelagic I have learned allot.
First of all coarse edges as in Spyderco Brown stones are perfect for S30V no need to go past this. S30V is full of carbides which are micro serration toothy. So keep the edge toothy and make use of what you paid for... the carbides.
Second of all keep a very light touch on the stones after you re-profile and get a bur on each side light strokes on each side as in weight of the knife light strokes.
I also learned to take the edge and run it across plastic wood or even cardboard lightly to remove a bur then test and if snagging in paper more back and forth to emote the bur.
Third the sharpmaker while wonderful is not the best tool for S30V. It is good for touch ups but there is a better way.
I have purchased the Spyderco brown stone full size bench stone, put angle wedges on it to keep me consistent and now I can get S30V extremely sharp and am loving this steel like never before.
It is my opinion that the sharpmaker rods lack sufficient surface area to really get S30V to that next level without wearing out ones arm and patience.
Other steels work better like they were made to work with the sharp-maker like VG-10 and Cruwear.
S30V will work on the sharpmaker but the truly sharp edge I always got off of it was short lived now it is longer lived.
The same is true of cruwear on the bench stone and VG10 as well Hap40 responds extremely well.
So my advice get a Spyderco Bench Stone some Wedgek’s and do not be afraid to free hand with training wheels.
As for models I think S30V excels in there are many but my favorite is the Native Chief their is just something magical about how this one likes to get sharp.
Makes me wonder if the heat treat is different on it?
Lastly considering mirrored bevel for looks and friction reduction followed by a toothy micro bevel.
After having owned many models of knives with S30V and experiencing it daily in use I grew disappointed with it.
Honestly it is not the best choice for all models. In my opinion it has great all around characteristics but fails to excel as a blanket steel for all models, mostly because once you experience steels like Cruwear or VG-10 you look at S30V and go hey man not cool why can’t I get a super sharp edge like Cruwear? Or VG10?
The Sharp maker alone doesn’t not in my experience bring out the best in this steel at all, which I will try to offer a better solution below in conjunction with the sharpmaker.
The sharpmaker has it’s place to be sure.
There are other steels that also exhibit great all around characteristics and would do much better in all models as a blanket uniform base steel. VG-10 is one such steel.
As we can see Spyderco uses it in many models, I have yet to be disappointed with it in any model I have purchased.
Why is this?
Well VG10 is the perfect companion steel for the sharp-maker they work wonderfully together.
S30V requires proper tools and education to get really sharp. Only recently after 7 years of owning S30V knives have I figured it out.
I have used guided systems like the Wicked Edge Pro 3 and all the way down to sub micron pastes and wood strop paddles.
I have brought out scratch-less mirror bevels.
I have also never been pleased with the results.
In the last year or so thanks to this forum, many members especially Evil D and Vivi mostly with added help from Pelagic I have learned allot.
First of all coarse edges as in Spyderco Brown stones are perfect for S30V no need to go past this. S30V is full of carbides which are micro serration toothy. So keep the edge toothy and make use of what you paid for... the carbides.
Second of all keep a very light touch on the stones after you re-profile and get a bur on each side light strokes on each side as in weight of the knife light strokes.
I also learned to take the edge and run it across plastic wood or even cardboard lightly to remove a bur then test and if snagging in paper more back and forth to emote the bur.
Third the sharpmaker while wonderful is not the best tool for S30V. It is good for touch ups but there is a better way.
I have purchased the Spyderco brown stone full size bench stone, put angle wedges on it to keep me consistent and now I can get S30V extremely sharp and am loving this steel like never before.
It is my opinion that the sharpmaker rods lack sufficient surface area to really get S30V to that next level without wearing out ones arm and patience.
Other steels work better like they were made to work with the sharp-maker like VG-10 and Cruwear.
S30V will work on the sharpmaker but the truly sharp edge I always got off of it was short lived now it is longer lived.
The same is true of cruwear on the bench stone and VG10 as well Hap40 responds extremely well.
So my advice get a Spyderco Bench Stone some Wedgek’s and do not be afraid to free hand with training wheels.
As for models I think S30V excels in there are many but my favorite is the Native Chief their is just something magical about how this one likes to get sharp.
Makes me wonder if the heat treat is different on it?
Lastly considering mirrored bevel for looks and friction reduction followed by a toothy micro bevel.
Last edited by Doeswhateveraspidercan on Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: S30V
The s30v I have from two makers take nice keen refined edges that lasts longer than vg10, and should last longer than Cruwear. Properly refined edges benefit from carbide content just like any other edge.
It just takes the right abrasives and technique.
It just takes the right abrasives and technique.
Re: S30V
Does anyone here own a Buck Vantage Pro? The s30v on that model seems more finely grained, more stable, and possibly harder than other s30v models I've tried. It has an excellent sharpening response and great edge retention. I saw some YouTuber (can't remember who) do a cut test between the Buck Vantage pro and some Benchmade (I think) model in s30v. To their surprise the Buck easily outcut the other model. I wasn't surprised a bit.
I have never used a custom knife in s30v so I can't say anything for certain, but I feel the heat treat protocol is tricky for grain refinement. 90% of models I'm not super happy with (the steel, s30v) although I can get them screaming sharp quickly at low grits (high grits too, but you're rarely seeing a performance gain worth the extra time spent). Then there's a few that seem to take an edge much more quickly, deburr much more easily, hold high sharpness longer, and respond better to finer grit finishes.
I have never used a custom knife in s30v so I can't say anything for certain, but I feel the heat treat protocol is tricky for grain refinement. 90% of models I'm not super happy with (the steel, s30v) although I can get them screaming sharp quickly at low grits (high grits too, but you're rarely seeing a performance gain worth the extra time spent). Then there's a few that seem to take an edge much more quickly, deburr much more easily, hold high sharpness longer, and respond better to finer grit finishes.
Re: S30V
Glad to see you've finally warmed up to S30V, because with that mentality you had when you first got here, you'd be missing out on the opportunity at some fantastic models!
15 's in 10 different steels
1 - Bradford Guardian 3 / Vanadis 4E Wharnie
1 - Monterey Bay Knives Slayback Flipper / ZDP 189
1 - CRK Small Sebenza 31/Macassar Ebony Inlays
1 - CRK Large Inkosi Insingo/ Black Micarta Inlays
1 - CRK Small Sebenza 31 Insingo/Magnacut
-Rick
1 - Bradford Guardian 3 / Vanadis 4E Wharnie
1 - Monterey Bay Knives Slayback Flipper / ZDP 189
1 - CRK Small Sebenza 31/Macassar Ebony Inlays
1 - CRK Large Inkosi Insingo/ Black Micarta Inlays
1 - CRK Small Sebenza 31 Insingo/Magnacut
-Rick
Re: S30V
+1 on the Spyderco ceramic bench stones. Couldn't live without them anymore (medium/brown and fine/white). BTW, I get rid of most of the burr with one or two final soft strokes on the stone but along/parallel to the knife edge.
Reg. S30V, there are simply some really outstanding Spyderco designs that don't come in anything else .... In particular collaborations like Chinook, Szabo, Smock, Amalgam, Opus, Bowie, etc. Wish they'd all have Cruwear or XHP, but beggars can't be choosers :)
BTW, any experience with S35VN, and if yes, do you notice a difference ?
Reg. S30V, there are simply some really outstanding Spyderco designs that don't come in anything else .... In particular collaborations like Chinook, Szabo, Smock, Amalgam, Opus, Bowie, etc. Wish they'd all have Cruwear or XHP, but beggars can't be choosers :)
BTW, any experience with S35VN, and if yes, do you notice a difference ?
Last edited by ferider on Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:11 am, edited 4 times in total.
Re: S30V
I could take issue with many points in the OP, but won’t.
I have Spyderco’s S30V in a various shapes, sizes, and personalizations.
I can’t fault it in any one, except that it is not “the new”, which is not much of a criticism.
I have Spyderco’s S30V in a various shapes, sizes, and personalizations.
I can’t fault it in any one, except that it is not “the new”, which is not much of a criticism.
-Marc (pocketing an M4 Sage5 today)
“When science changes its opinion, it didn’t lie to you. It learned more.”
“When science changes its opinion, it didn’t lie to you. It learned more.”
- The Mastiff
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Re: S30V
+1 . It remains a excellent blade steel but we have become pretty spoiled here in our community.I can’t fault it in any one, except that it is not “the new”, which is not much of a criticism.
They all can get as sharp as the others within reason. Some do take more effort and experience to really get the best out of but i don't see that with S30V as long as good quality sharpening tools like Spyderco's are used. Maybe I'm just used to S30V though?hey man not cool why can’t I get a super sharp edge like Cruwear? Or VG10?
Joe
Re: S30V
I've never had any problems getting S30V sharp and having it hold an edge for a reasonable amount of time. And I'm no sharpening 'master'. As far as S35VN, I find it's just a little bit easier to resharpen, and seems a bit tougher, but otherwise the differences are probably negligible. I do like S35VN a bit more, but the reasons could be all in my head, because, all else being equal, I honestly haven't found much difference between the two.
I will say that I like VG-10 more than S30V, even though VG-10 doesn't hold an edge quite as long.
Jim
I will say that I like VG-10 more than S30V, even though VG-10 doesn't hold an edge quite as long.
Jim
Re: S30V
CPM-S30V is an awesome allround steel given it's properly heat treated (60-61 HRC) and Spyderco knows how to deal with this steel. I have no problem sharpening S30V using just my Sharpmaker. Sometimes I just use the corners of the brown rods and the result is a shaving sharp edge but sometimes I take my time and I finish with the corners of the UF rods and the final product is a surgical scary sharp edge. I never... ever... use the flats. Enough said.
Marius
" A mind all logic is like a knife all blade. It makes the hand bleed that uses it "
( Rabindranath Tagore )
Proud member of the old school spyderedge nation
" A mind all logic is like a knife all blade. It makes the hand bleed that uses it "
( Rabindranath Tagore )
Proud member of the old school spyderedge nation
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Re: S30V
It did take a while :) the thing that really changed my mind was the excellent results I am getting using the Brown Bench stone.
To be fair I tried and experiment with an S90V Military last weekend and was shocked how swiftly the edge refined and sharpened on the brown bench stone.
Then I thought my goodness I wonder what will happen with S30V? I had allowed the Native Chief to get less sharp than I like and decided to use it as my test subject. Completly surprised and pleased by the results.
Still have much to learn about more or less free hand sharpening but if I learned nothing more than this it is sufficient to put S30V back in the saddle again.
When It comes to S35VN I do have a dull PM2 in S35VN Guess it is time to give it the test as well, maybe tonight.
I have used S35VN allot in the Chris Reeve brand it never once rusted or pitted on me where S30V has.
S35VN also feels softer to me where as S30V feels harder more crystaline.
Subjectively I hope this makes sense but S30V feels hard to me just like S110V does.
Cruwear feels less crystaline hard and more ductile with a medium toothyness to its bite can take a high polish and push cut like crazy
VG-10 feels oily smooth and ductile to me it is so smooth feeling in a slice can take a high polish and push cut like crazy
M4 feels allot like Cruwear in the hand but maybe less ductile can take a high polish and push cut like crazy
52100 feels very toothy and hard
LC200N very hard feeling and toothy
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Re: S30V
Please do I learn allot from different points of view. Some of the best education I have received is from people telling me I am wrong, turns out allot of them were right. :)
Re: S30V
Using the corners puts more pressure on the apex where it contacts the edge. Using the flats when the blade shape allows it will be beneficial in maintaining the integrity of the apex.elena86 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:25 pmCPM-S30V is an awesome allround steel given it's properly heat treated (60-61 HRC) and Spyderco knows how to deal with this steel. I have no problem sharpening S30V using just my Sharpmaker. Sometimes I just use the corners of the brown rods and the result is a shaving sharp edge but sometimes I take my time and I finish with the corners of the UF rods and the final product is a surgical scary sharp edge. I never... ever... use the flats. Enough said.
Re: S30V
I don't mind S30V but it certainly isn't a driving force in purchases unless there's a model that has always had a more budget steel that gets an upgrade. I've had good luck in getting very good edges on S30V. My only issue is that steels in this family seem to drop down into a working edge fairly quick and loose that initial high level of sharpness. Because of that I would just assume go with S90/110V if I have the option.
That said I would be 100% ok if they replaced S30V with LC200N even if the rest of the knife isn't rust proof. Corrosion resistance aside I've found it to be easier to sharpen and it keeps a sharper initial edge longer.
That said I would be 100% ok if they replaced S30V with LC200N even if the rest of the knife isn't rust proof. Corrosion resistance aside I've found it to be easier to sharpen and it keeps a sharper initial edge longer.
All SE all the time since 2017
~David
~David
Re: S30V
S30V is a bit harder to sharpen than VG10 imo. However, not very difficult either. Gets very sharp with just the sharpmaker. I use a steeper angle than 15 by placing something under the sharpmaker. Then microbevel at 15. Make absolutely sure that you hit the apex before the microbevel is set. You forumites already know that. :p
I must confess that if you gave me S30V and told me it is VG10 I would not find out by sharpening that it is a different steel. I agree with David that the SxxV family drops down quickly to a working edge. That’s why I put a microbevel of 15 on there. Touches up quickly.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on S30V DWASC.
I must confess that if you gave me S30V and told me it is VG10 I would not find out by sharpening that it is a different steel. I agree with David that the SxxV family drops down quickly to a working edge. That’s why I put a microbevel of 15 on there. Touches up quickly.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on S30V DWASC.
- MichaelScott
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Re: S30V
I would like to see five identical Spydercos made with five different steels all unmarked. Then read then read all the reactions to them, then identify each.
Should be both enlightening and fun.
Should be both enlightening and fun.
Overheard at the end of the ice age, “We’ve been having such unnatural weather.”
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Re: S30V
I would welcome this if they were all 3" or less blades I could use at work. It wouldn't take long for my results. They would all be used to failure in short order.MichaelScott wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:30 pmI would like to see five identical Spydercos made with five different steels all unmarked. Then read then read all the reactions to them, then identify each.
Should be both enlightening and fun.
Re: S30V
I would love this. I feel like I'd get a lot right but it's a fun thing to be wrong about.MichaelScott wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:30 pmI would like to see five identical Spydercos made with five different steels all unmarked. Then read then read all the reactions to them, then identify each.
Should be both enlightening and fun.
All SE all the time since 2017
~David
~David