Is my waterway underperforming or do I have unrealistic expectations?

[Murat_Cyp]

Hi,

This is my first post here. I bought my first Spyderco about 12 years ago (endura VG10) I quite regret later for not buying the full flat grind!

Anyway, after lots of consideration, I bought my second Spyderco, waterway to use as spearfishing and general utility knife!

However, in its first day, I got a bit or roll on the edge near the tip (I think it is a rolled edge, it shines but not like a chip). I only put in and out of the sheath few time to get the feeling of the retention resistance, and I filleted a one small fish.

I have been using it for a week now, and after three dives I noticed a very small stain on the blade even though I washed the blade after every diving session. Moreover, I have more rolled points on the edge on the first half of the knife towards the tip. In total, I killed 6-8 fish it by stabbing through the skull and filleted 4 of them. Now, the first quarter of the blade toward the tip does not even slice a paper. Knowing LC200N has a decent edge holding capability and stability due to high toughness, I am quite disappointed to have rolled edge so soon. Could this be a so called "factory edge" problem? I do not have a sharpening system yet but I will put a new edge on it when my sharpening system arrives. I donated my Spyderco triangle sharp maker to a friend who was in need a few years ago!

Considering all this, does my waterway underperform? or do I have unrealistic expectations from this knife?

Kind regards,

Murat

[wrdwrght]

My WaterWay did not come typically sharp from the factory. And I was not alone.

Oddly, mine had a bit of a burr. No biggie, just surprising. I ran it over my SharpMaker a few times. Problem solved.

LC200N has fantastic sharpening response. You’ll get that rolled edge (or burr?) off rather easily even with a bench stone. But don’t expect the WaterWay’s edge-holding to amaze you. It’s very good, but not amazing. It’s the sharpening response that is amazing. Perfect for a work knife.

[TomAiello]

Welcome to the forum!

I'd definitely sharpen it yourself and see if you get better performance.

[Murat_Cyp]

Mine came paper slicing sharp out of the box with no rolled edge. Edge rolled after very light use (i think filleting few fish is a very light use). Yes, it does not have the highest wear resistance, but it supposed to be tough steel as far as I am aware. Therefore, seeing rolled edge so soon quite surprised me. Unfortunately, I do not have any means of sharpening now, my sharpening system will not arrive until December or January. So, I thought stropping might solve my problem. But I am not sure which grid to buy. I was thinking 4micron diamond compound might be coarse enough to fix the rolled edge. But I am not sure since I do not know what grid the edge is finished on the waterway.

[Xplorer]

Mine arrived sharp, and dulled somewhat easily with the first bit of usage. After sharpening it myself the edge held up better. It is normal for a lot of tough steels to have a stubborn burr that can be difficult to remove. If the OP's edge developed a shiny area from pulling it out of the sheath I would have to guess that it had a burr left over from factory sharpening that rolled.

Edge retention on LC200N is good but not amazing. Very similar to VG10 in fact. It's also very tough and is unlikely to chip, but fish bones and fish scales are very tough materials that will dull an edge more quickly than a lot of materials. Re-sharpening is going to be necessary and if fish processing is the plan I suggest an 800 grit edge (no more than 1000) to maintain the necessary "toothyness" for cutting through scales. I use a 1000 grit diamond compound to finish it on my strop.

If it is difficult to remove the burr, stropping or adding a micro-bevel at the end of the sharpening process should take care of it.

[Xplorer]

... but it supposed to be tough steel as far as I am aware. Therefore, seeing rolled edge so soon quite surprised me....

Toughness without high hardness effectively results in a blade that will roll instead of chip. Rolling is how a tough blade dulls as opposed to chipping, which would be the way a brittle blade may dull or fail. Hardness is the primary factory in rolling resistance. Hardness of LC200N is typically in the HRC58/59 range. This is a steel that will roll long before it chips or fractures.

Best regards,
CK

[vivi]

Mine came paper slicing sharp out of the box with no rolled edge. Edge rolled after very light use (i think filleting few fish is a very light use). Yes, it does not have the highest wear resistance, but it supposed to be tough steel as far as I am aware. Therefore, seeing rolled edge so soon quite surprised me. Unfortunately, I do not have any means of sharpening now, my sharpening system will not arrive until December or January. So, I thought stropping might solve my problem. But I am not sure which grid to buy. I was thinking 4micron diamond compound might be coarse enough to fix the rolled edge. But I am not sure since I do not know what grid the edge is finished on the waterway.

uy sandpaper instead of a strop. Something in the 400-600 grit range would sharpen out those rolls in no time, and it's only $2. Get a clamp to hold it in place too.

[sal]

Hi Murat_Cyp,

Welcome to our forum.

sal

[Pelagic]

As mentioned, sounds like a small burr was there from the factory. Time to sharpen it. Be very meticulous in your burr observation and burr elimination. And try not to hit fish bones too hard with the edge. Good luck.

[Danvp]

Factory edges never are my favorite. Some knives do oke, others not so much. The best way to enjoy your Waterway is to put a fresh edge on it yourself. LC200N is easy to sharpen. As said in previous posts it holds and edge fairly well but don’t expect miracles. I tend to like rolled edges more. They are easier for me to bring back sharp than (micro)chips. So use and ‘abuse’ your Waterway and sharpen it after. Your will come to appreciate this unique Spyderco.

Btw, never heard of a stain on LC200N. Do you have a picture of it?

[jpm2]

It's almost never fair to judge a blade steel from its factory edge.

[Surfingringo]

Hi Murat, welcome to the forum. Lots of good advice on here already. I find that with lc200n, a 40 degree microbevel helps with edge stability in fish processing work (which can be very taxing on an edge due to the constant contact with bone and scales).

Regarding the stain spot, I have had a number of Waterways exposed to constant 24/7 saltwater exposure and have had no meaningful rust issues with any of them. I had one tiny spot show up that scraped off with a fingernail and never returned and I had a spot of rust leak out of the spyderhole on another. I suspect that both were the result of residue from other steels in the machining process (drill bits or belts). I have tortured lc200n mercilessly in extreme environments for the last 2 years and I don’t hesitate to label it a rust proof steel.

Enjoy your Waterway and keep us posted on performance!

[sal]

Thanx Lance.

sal

[Murat_Cyp]

Wow so much good information! I feel edge-u-cated! Thank you all!.

I definitely will put a new edge on it when my system arrives! Until then I will try to fix it with a stropping but it seems 4micron is not coarse enough to take off the burr or the rolling on the edge? I was thinking of getting 4micron diamond emulsion and nano cloth which will be compatible with my incoming sharpening system.

As requested please find the picture showing the stain below. It was difficult to capture on the phone camera but it is more predominant to the naked eye. This is what it looked like after trying to remove it with a fingernail.



Cheers!

[VooDooChild]

It sounds like plain edge lc200n to me. Ive got several knives with it right now. I think the steel got hyped a bit online. While its definitely better than pe h1, it isnt going to hold an edge as well as alot of other steels in the price range. The price you will pay for extreme corrosion resistance paired with overall toughness of steel vs something like ceramics, or something not great for edges/sharpening like titanium.
Alot of the real world production knife use of lc200n is still in its infancy even though some version of this steel has been around for quite awhile. Also there seems to be no winning with fish. Youre either dulling the best stainless steels or rusting the best nonstainless steels. I guess id rather sharpen than fight rust.
Ignore the spot. Ive seen a spot or two and if coming off with a fingernail is all it takes I cant honestly call it rust. The mule teams might have had some issues. Im curious about the fasteners in the waterways sheath and if any contamination issues could occur down the line.
Lc200n could still have metal exposure/galvanic/contamination issues. What I mean is contact with something else undergoing oxidation causing the blade to stain due to contamination. This brings me to the issue of the sheath. You better keep it clean. If you get a bunch of sand/salt/dirt/ god forbid powdered iron oxide in there, you are still going to get a stain on that blade simply through contact. Should* come off with no issue though.
I cant really give a complete verdict as the only negative evidence I have for the steel occured on my mule team and as stated the mule teams may have had some issues. My native 5 salt has been going through the ringer with no problems so far. I would like to start a somewhat controlled torture test on some of my lc200n knives over the course of a year or so to see how it holds up, if the issue my mule team had were limited to the mules, if sheath storage paired with not rinsing causes anything to happen compared to folders, and etc.
Regardless of most of my ramblings. My advice ist to use and abuse the knife. Get another sharpener cause it will need sharpening. And rinse and keep the sheath clean, if anything for your edge. Beach sand wedged in the crease of the sheath will dull an edge really fast, and it can be very difficult to get that sand out.

[Murat_Cyp]

All good advice thanks! I stropped it on the leather of my laptop case but no success. Probably I need something more abrasive!

[Cambertree]

There's a bunch of ways you can hone and sharpen your knife without using a sharpening system. As Vivi said, you can use wet'n'dry sandpaper clamped or taped to a flat surface. Or you can 'steel' your knife by running it along the frosted, radiused top of one of your car windows. The unglazed ring on the bottom of a ceramic cup or plate would also work well on LC200N.

Regarding the discolouration, I had a few tiny pinprick size orange dots appear on my Waterway blade in the first week. After examining them and thinking about it, I decided they must have been from tiny particles of carbon steel coming off one of my strops and getting caught in the microscopic furrows left by the factory grinding process. They didn't come off with my fingernail, as I would have expected. I just rubbed on a little bit of toothpaste, which has microcrystalline abrasives in it, and the tiny spots were gone and my blade has been stainfree ever since. You could try the same thing.

Interestingly, my Caribbean never got that, despite similar sharpening and treatment. I guess it might have a smoother surface polish.

[Matt Deaner]

I don’t have a Waterway but I do have a mule team and Spydiechef in LC200n. In my experience, it’s edge holding is well below s30v and vg-10. That’s not to say I don’t like the steel. Sharpening response is excellent and edge holding is still decent given that it’s rustproof.

This is a steel run at about 58-59 rc and only has a small percentage (IIRC less than 5%) carbides. It’s not going to hang with higher carbide steels in terms of edge holding. To me, it’s like the softish carbon steel used in old (US made) Old Timer knives, except stainless. Gets very sharp easily, and is easy to bring that edge back. Does not support low angles well due to lack of strength, and doesn’t do so well at edge holding in abrasive media.

[Pelagic]

4 micron is very capable of eliminating a burr or fixing a rolled edge. While I'd recommend hitting the stones first, if all you have is a strop, invest in some diamond powder. I could be the only one here that uses diamond powder as I've never seen anyone else mention it. It can be used dry by itself, or you can sprinkle some on the strop before you spray your emulsion. This will HIGHLY increase the concentration of diamonds on the strop, depending how much you add. I'd also try stropping on wood, which allows you to apply more pressure to one specific spot on the edge (the roll) while still using light passes. Wood also performs more like a stone than leather, denim, or nano cloth, as it will not round your apex if you accidentally apply too much pressure. If you have a flat piece of wood (sand it flat) and sprinkle some 4 micron diamond powder on it, that alone will eradicate any burr and fix almost any roll. Just a thought. But realize that once you use diamond powder, the strop will cut MUCH faster, so you'll have to keep the pressure light and check your blade after every 2 passes. If you just start stropping as usual, your edge will be completely mirrored in no time, so if you want to keep some of the coarse edge yielded by your last stone, keep stropping brief.

Check on eBay. I buy little vials for $8. I believe they have everything from 25 to 0.1 micron. The 0.1 micron will have you whittling hairs both against AND with the grain in no time.

[Murat_Cyp]

Again, thanks for all the info! I just ordered a nano cloth strop, a kangaroo strop and a 4micron CBN emulsion from Jende Industries which all will be compatible with the sharpening system coming in few months (also from Jende Industries).

I will get them by the end of the week and hopefully, I will kill, clean and fillet a few fish during the weekend! I can not wait! :)

Cheers