Spyderco Forums

OD Green Micarta with S110V.

curlyhairedboy wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:20 am

There definitely were a bunch of early Shaman critics, and in many ways the knife from a purely spec-based perspective seemed underwhelming to some opinionmakers.

You had a bunch of people say it was nothing special (black and s30v, snoooooze)
You had a bunch more people say that it was barely worth it at its previous price point, and that it was an even worse value at the increased price point.

I hope that with enough Shamans now in the market and in the aftermarket, people are realizing that the knife is far more than the sum of its parts, especially in hand and when cutting.

This is why I think the practice of introducing models in S30V with black G10 is a bit dated in my opinion. Had the Manix Backlock been introduced in Cruwear with an Earth Tone Peel Ply G10 I think it would still be around today. The Shaman probably would have been embraced early on had it been released in Cruwear / Earth Tone G10 as well. So many people pass and wait for sprints. The Chief is another one. Earth tone G10 with K390 and the thing would be a hit.

Basically i'm saying you can't predict the demand for an exclusive in the hottest steel and the hottest scale material based on demand for the 157th S30V Black G10 model. And you can't base the potential for a knife based on S30V with black G10. I'm not going to buy an initial release of a model JUST because it is in Cruwear, but I will buy the initial release of a lot of knives in Cruwear/Earth Tone G10 (or Micarta or FRN) that I will pass on in S30V/black while I wait impatiently for a Sprint. This Shaman was the first one I have ever held, and I think it is an amazing model now that I finally have it.

Sal, yes, OD Green Micarta and Cruwear would be a GREAT combo, and probably have even greater appeal than the sprint in Natural Micarta. I think you could safety productionalize that version without fear of stagnation. I'd go as far as to release it in both satin and DLC as well. I for one would buy both versions and keep my sprint as well. Sorry for all of the grief you are getting, and I hope you don't take my comments above the wrong way. I do forecasting, pricing, and statistical modeling for a living, so I like to think of myself as an unpaid (and unsolicited..lol) consultant!

I dont understand. How are these selling out so quickly? In seconds??? before the server can even send out an instock email?

bearfacedkiller wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:59 am

Dang Darby, now you're just rubbing it in...

God'sMyJudge wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:11 pm

I dont understand. How are these selling out so quickly? In seconds??? before the server can even send out an instock email?

Probably people just getting lucky and stumbling on them. That's how I purchased mine, I just periodically refreshed the product page across about 15 retailers and happened to hit it at the right time on one, a couple minutes before their in stock email was sent out.

sal wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:23 am

Hank Scorpio wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:55 am

sal wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:19 am

Maybe this a bad time, but what do you guys think of a green Micarta Cruwear Shaman, or maybe a green Micarta with another exotic steel? I could argue for a larger quantity.

sal

Sal, I’m just adding to the din at this point, but I’d say after all this uproar, Spyderco is looking at plenty of additional margin ripe for the taking.

Like they say, scratch where it itches. When a sprint is selling out in minutes or even seconds, that’s a big itch.

Just my 0.02, but I’d wager another ~1200 piece Crucarta sprint (denim? probably doesn’t matter too much) AND a ~2400 piece “double” sprint in K390 and micarta (OD Green?) would have no trouble flying off the shelves.

Great opportunity to capitalize and turn this big win (with residual disappointment as evidenced here in the forum) into an even bigger win.

Hi Hank,

We operate on pretty fixed margins. Enough to run our company and take care of our crew. We'll make less on some makers because their prices are very high, but we don't generally raise prices on a hot item. We feel that "to charge as much as the market will bare" is biting the hand that feeds you.

sal

Hi Sal,

Thanks for the reply! Being on the forum, I’m obviously a fan of Spyderco, due in no small part to the obvious integrity with which you conduct your business and the respect you show to your customer base. Living only 15 mins away from HQ, I’ve been fortunate to have made numerous trips to the SFO, and can vouch for the great crew working there with whom I’ve interacted.

I realize my wording could be read as supporting raising prices, but that wasn’t my intent. I probably should have just said “money” rather than margin, but my idea was just to support the idea of meeting this voracious demand with additional supply (more margin by volume, not by %, if that makes any sense).

Again, you’ve found a winning itch here, and I have no doubt you, Eric, et al, are going to give it the due consideration it deserves.

SpyderPhreak wrote: Dang Darby, now you're just rubbing it in...

Not my intention and not my style. No schadenfreude here. I hope everybody who wants one gets one and I have even been trying to grab a second just to pass on to one of my fellow forumites.

I figured folks would like to see one getting carried and used instead of being flipped or locked up in a safe. :)

bearfacedkiller wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:21 pm

SpyderPhreak wrote: Dang Darby, now you're just rubbing it in...

Not my intention and not my style. No schadenfreude here. I hope everybody who wants one gets one and I have even been trying to grab a second just to pass on to one of my fellow forumites.

I figured folks would like to see one getting carried and used instead of being flipped or locked up in a safe. :)

Just giving you a hard time brother. Especially since you already had posted that pic.

It is a good pic though. :)

JRinFL wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:47 am

bearfacedkiller wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:11 am

It is easy for me to say it because I already have one but...

This is a hobby and hobbies are supposed to be fun. If you are not enjoying yourself then you aren’t doing it right.

Now I’ll get a little Buddhist on you. Desire is the root of suffering. It is ok to want something but it is unhealthy to allow it to overpower you. :D :cool: :spyder:

I missed out on the Jade/M4 and Red/4V Shamans. Luckily a kind forum member helped me out with the Jade. I was bummed about the 4V but life went on. My wishlist of knives still exceeds how many I can enjoy or afford so I just focus my eyes on the next shiny object.

True, "all want is pain".

As to others comparing it to a kidney, well keep in mind actual kidneys are few and far between on transplant schedule, for good reasons. No one is making spares. However, this knife has a completely artificial shortage which is creating this stress. It is a model many, many people want but the decision was made to stick with the low limit of 1200 items. With the years of demand for Cruwear models I really do not think it was much a stretch to make twice that or to even make it a standard offering. Of course, not my company, not my decision. For some of us this model is *exactly* what we want, not red 4v, not Rosewood, etc. Now, I have one on preorder so I am not constantly refreshing or worrying about near instant sellouts. If I do not get one, I will be disappointed. It is rarely a good business practice to disappoint a customer who is willing to spend money with your company. Sal already says he is working on it, so I'm not going belabor the point further.

Good luck to everyone who wants one. To those who have one, keep posting especially if you actually use it as intended.

(edited for clarity)

I guess that it is a good business practice to create an artificial demand to show retailers that customers will go into a feeding frenzy for a specific product. You can then load your production cue with expensive exclusives as the retailers line up with dollar signs in their eyes. As the producer you have tied up less money and have less risk on the relatively few of the first sprint production models that you made and then you have others paying for producing additional models, reducing your risk of being the one holding dead stock.

jdw wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:35 pm

JRinFL wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:47 am

bearfacedkiller wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:11 am

It is easy for me to say it because I already have one but...

This is a hobby and hobbies are supposed to be fun. If you are not enjoying yourself then you aren’t doing it right.

Now I’ll get a little Buddhist on you. Desire is the root of suffering. It is ok to want something but it is unhealthy to allow it to overpower you. :D :cool: :spyder:

I missed out on the Jade/M4 and Red/4V Shamans. Luckily a kind forum member helped me out with the Jade. I was bummed about the 4V but life went on. My wishlist of knives still exceeds how many I can enjoy or afford so I just focus my eyes on the next shiny object.

True, "all want is pain".

As to others comparing it to a kidney, well keep in mind actual kidneys are few and far between on transplant schedule, for good reasons. No one is making spares. However, this knife has a completely artificial shortage which is creating this stress. It is a model many, many people want but the decision was made to stick with the low limit of 1200 items. With the years of demand for Cruwear models I really do not think it was much a stretch to make twice that or to even make it a standard offering. Of course, not my company, not my decision. For some of us this model is *exactly* what we want, not red 4v, not Rosewood, etc. Now, I have one on preorder so I am not constantly refreshing or worrying about near instant sellouts. If I do not get one, I will be disappointed. It is rarely a good business practice to disappoint a customer who is willing to spend money with your company. Sal already says he is working on it, so I'm not going belabor the point further.

Good luck to everyone who wants one. To those who have one, keep posting especially if you actually use it as intended.

(edited for clarity)

I guess that it is a good business practice to create an artificial demand to show retailers that customers will go into a feeding frenzy for a specific product. You can then load your production cue with expensive exclusives as the retailers line up with dollar signs in their eyes. As the producer you have tied up less money and have less risk on the relatively few of the first sprint production models that you made and then you have others paying for producing additional models, reducing your risk of being the one holding dead stock.

I'm going to accept Sal's explanation that it was a simple underestimation of demand for this model.

@steelcity16 makes a valid point, low initial demand is likely caused by the Nth iteration of black G10 and S30V combination, and not by disinterest in a particular new model. I know I have seen enough black G10/S30V to last the rest of my life.

If the low costs of s30v and black G10 are the primary enablers of the wide variety of new models and collaborations, that's something I'd rather keep. Variety in steel is fantastic, variety in design is essential.

As others mention here, i too did not jump on the Shaman before because it was just plain S30V and black G10. That combo just doesn't tickle my fancy. The contoured scales of this model really did appeal to me so i waited for this sprint run. It has been a long wait! I think that new models should get a special sprint run much sooner. Plenty more models that i would never try in plain black G10/FRN and VG10/S30V that i would buy if they had different scales/metal.

I know that Cruwear is nice from the Para 3 that i have, but that was not the primary reason to buy this sprint. It is the Micarta that sold me and i'd take any decent steel upgrade over S30V. I'd be even more happy if this sprint was in K390. The micarta is super nice looking and feels much nicer in the hand than your typical peel ply G10. Would love to see more of it.
I'd love me a nice purple micarta K390 Shaman. But i wouldn't say no to some nice blue denim either. Or maybe some really basic white micarta that is really easy to dye to everyone's own taste?

curlyhairedboy wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:22 pm

If the low costs of s30v and black G10 are the primary enablers of the wide variety of new models and collaborations, that's something I'd rather keep. Variety in steel is fantastic, variety in design is essential.

Very well said! :D

:spyder:

The shaman is a sleeper hit. It is starting to grow on people. I know I don't realize how amazing it really is until recently. You can front flip it! That is so cool. It feels so good in the hand. The Shaman is strong and feels like a fixed blade.

Honestly, I want to sell all my PM2s now because they feel like toys compared to this beast.

If the new models sit until they are Disco'd, I don't see how that helps Spyderco?

I don't think the problem is specifically the S30V/black G10 combo, it's that combo at the cost it comes in. The standard Shaman is $188, while this Cruwear/micarta version is just a mere $20 more. No matter how much we all agree that S30V is good enough, the combination of Cruwear and micarta are going to be more special, more collectable, more tough and better suited for the model and at only $20 more who isn't going to jump on it and maybe even overlook some of the details they don't like? $188 for S30V/G10 is probably more than that combo can sustain over long periods, not enough people are going to buy it and so just like the back lock Manix 2 it'll eventually get discontinued. However, $208 for Cruwear and micarta is less than some other sprints have gone for, it's a popular steel and handle material and it suits the model very well. I think sometimes sprints come along and they may be popular because people want to try out the steel or they buy them just to keep their collection going, but other times a sprint comes along in the right combo of model/steel/handle that all mixes just right and it just makes sense. If that sprint also happens to only be $20 over the base model, I just don't see how it wouldn't sell exactly how this knife is selling. Find the right combo like this for any knife and watch it go.

sal wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:19 am

Maybe this a bad time, but what do you guys think of a green Micarta Cruwear Shaman, or maybe a green Micarta with another exotic steel? I could argue for a larger quantity.

sal

Denim or OD Green micarta w/ rex45 or 15v would be an absolute monster of a knife.

Denim micarta and k390 or 15v is something I would definitely buy IF the run is big enough. I’ve given up on this one because my internet isn’t fast enough to check out before they sell out.