SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

[Wartstein]

I am new to the knife world, in fact I just joined the forum the other day. So take what I have to say with a salt lick. But over the last year I’ve used a tasman salt 2 in h1 full SE. frankly, I’ve never sharpened it because I don’t know how to.
From a layman; it seems to cut well enough still? It’s not a religious experience through paper. But if I ask it to make 1 thing 2 things , it delivers.

Michael

I get what you mean: Actually, SE tends to make me lazy when it comes to sharpening: My serrated knives still cut food or carve away wood pretty well when the actual edge is comparably dull already (so when a PE knife would really not separate matter sufficiently already), so I actually sharpen them clearly less frequently than PE knives (one additional factor is of course, that SE stays sharp longer anyway)

[Doonzman]

Yeah there’s definitely a place for SE. Like I said, I defer to all of you and y’all’s experiences cuz I’m new. But even with a steel that’s apparently poopy (H1) it’s been a good companion.

[Doonzman]

I’ll get on it!

[cabfrank]

Not at all "poopy". Not at all. I have more H1 than any other steel. Many of us admire it. It's "poopy" reputation is a false narrative in my opinion.

[Doonzman]

Yeah when I was looking at knives corrosion resistance was BIG for me. It gets humid down here in the South. Thankfully I don’t live near the ocean so salt water isn’t an issue. I think I’d opt for LC200N going forward but I think H1 is cool

[Wartstein]

Yeah when I was looking at knives corrosion resistance was BIG for me. It gets humid down here in the South. Thankfully I don’t live near the ocean so salt water isn’t an issue. I think I’d opt for LC200N going forward but I think H1 is cool

It really is in SE, believe me (never tried and so can´t weight on H1 in PE, but this is an SE thread anyway... )

[JoviAl]

I have read through this thread a couple of times and see that there are many (many many in fact) proposed mods to improve the cutting performance of SE blades. For those of you with experience of this, what would you say are the most significant changes you can make to an SE blade to make it cut better? I ask as having now added a Caribbean Salt leaf SE to my work rotation I am finding it fairly uninspiring. I suspect that amongst its august PE company who all get mirror edges and daily touch ups it in its factory form is getting somewhat left in the dust. Any recommendations on how to bring out its best and make it shine?

[Evil D]

I have read through this thread a couple of times and see that there are many (many many in fact) proposed mods to improve the cutting performance of SE blades. For those of you with experience of this, what would you say are the most significant changes you can make to an SE blade to make it cut better? I ask as having now added a Caribbean Salt leaf SE to my work rotation I am finding it fairly uninspiring. I suspect that amongst its august PE company who all get mirror edges and daily touch ups it in its factory form is getting somewhat left in the dust. Any recommendations on how to bring out its best and make it shine?

Not really sure what to say

Mine was a cutting monster straight out of the box. What are your expectations and comparisons?

For example, I love my SE but they definitely don't slice like my regrind Military. On the other hand my reprofiled Caribbean slices way better than my factory bevel SE Military.

[JoviAl]

I have read through this thread a couple of times and see that there are many (many many in fact) proposed mods to improve the cutting performance of SE blades. For those of you with experience of this, what would you say are the most significant changes you can make to an SE blade to make it cut better? I ask as having now added a Caribbean Salt leaf SE to my work rotation I am finding it fairly uninspiring. I suspect that amongst its august PE company who all get mirror edges and daily touch ups it in its factory form is getting somewhat left in the dust. Any recommendations on how to bring out its best and make it shine?

Not really sure what to say

Mine was a cutting monster straight out of the box. What are your expectations and comparisons?

For example, I love my SE but they definitely don't slice like my regrind Military. On the other hand my reprofiled Caribbean slices way better than my factory bevel SE Military.

Hi David,
I can definitely see the benefits of SE for applications where you need your knife to cut aggressively and for protracted periods of time, and especially in abrasive materials like carpet or card board. I’ve been using my Caribbean SE for all of my daily tasks like cutting ropes, pruning plants, carving and whittling various types of wood or anything else that crops up. What I’ve noticed is that my Magnacut mule and S90V Yojumbo are staying functionally sharp for as long, but make much cleaner cuts with the same level of decisiveness (the Yojumbo might even swap the word ‘decisiveness’ for ‘extreme prejudice’ ). So I suppose what I’d like to know is do you know of a way to get SE as ferociously sharp as a PE blade? I keep all of my tools hair popping (I’m very fortunate to have time set aside for this each week at work), but I just can’t seem to reliably get the SE anything like as sharp. It’s still sticky sharp and will push cut, but it seems to lose that rapidly and I feel like I’m bludgeoning through materials. I realise as I write this that LC200N may be playing a large part in my dissatisfaction as I normally purchase firmly towards the edge retention end of the steel spectrum, my least retentive being cru wear normally.

I realise I’ve basically written an ambiguous War and Peace and don’t want to waste anyone’s time with my musings. I think I need to up my serrated sharpening game and maybe try out Magnacut SE (apparently back in stock at National Knives as of a few hours ago). It’s possible that for my use cases I’m just better off with PE, but I’m glad I’m trying SE if for no other reason than to find out. It’s all too easy to write things off in this day and age just off the back of other people’s anecdotal evidence.

Have a great day,
Al

[RustyIron]

So I suppose what I’d like to know is do you know of a way to get SE as ferociously sharp as a PE blade? I keep all of my tools hair popping (I’m very fortunate to have time set aside for this each week at work), but I just can’t seem to reliably get the SE anything like as sharp.

Hey, Al.
For a serrated edge, not only is the Sharpmaker the greatest thing since sliced bread, the Sharpmaker made it possible to slice the first bread. Since you seem to know how to get a nice edge on a plain edge, remember that you're doing the same thing on a serrated edge, but you're doing it to steel with a different shape.

When using the Sharpmaker, I don't do a vertical stroke like in the instructions. I tip the blade so that I perfectly match the factory edge. The Sharpie technique is very helpful to get started. I try to hit the WHOLE edge, copying the factory bevel. The Sharpie gets you in the ballpark, but you'll need magnification to ensure you're hitting the entire edge along each scallop. If you're missing the valley of the scallops, it's like not forming a burr on your plain edge. Magnification is your friend. After getting the bevel side, then I go to the flat side. I sharpen the flat side just a hair more than flat, to avoid scuffing the side of the blade.

After that, I'll go side to side a few times, and by then the edge is finished. I don't expect the serrated edge to be a great letter opener, arm shaver, or sushi slicer. If you're not getting a "sharp" edge, I'd guess you're not hitting the edge along the entirety of each serration. Again, magnification will give you a hint to where you've gone awry.

Rob

[Wartstein]

So I suppose what I’d like to know is do you know of a way to get SE as ferociously sharp as a PE blade? I keep all of my tools hair popping (I’m very fortunate to have time set aside for this each week at work), but I just can’t seem to reliably get the SE anything like as sharp.

Hey, Al.
For a serrated edge, not only is the Sharpmaker the greatest thing since sliced bread, the Sharpmaker made it possible to slice the first bread. Since you seem to know how to get a nice edge on a plain edge, remember that you're doing the same thing on a serrated edge, but you're doing it to steel with a different shape.

When using the Sharpmaker, I don't do a vertical stroke like in the instructions. I tip the blade so that I perfectly match the factory edge. The Sharpie technique is very helpful to get started. I try to hit the WHOLE edge, copying the factory bevel. The Sharpie gets you in the ballpark, but you'll need magnification to ensure you're hitting the entire edge along each scallop. If you're missing the valley of the scallops, it's like not forming a burr on your plain edge. Magnification is your friend. After getting the bevel side, then I go to the flat side. I sharpen the flat side just a hair more than flat, to avoid scuffing the side of the blade.

After that, I'll go side to side a few times, and by then the edge is finished. I don't expect the serrated edge to be a great letter opener, arm shaver, or sushi slicer. If you're not getting a "sharp" edge, I'd guess you're not hitting the edge along the entirety of each serration. Again, magnification will give you a hint to where you've gone awry.

Rob

Let me add:

With SE it is a lot easier to hit the right angle of the edge, it actually "clicks in place" somehow on the sharpmaker.

And: For me SE is a great letter opener / paper slicer indeed, if sharp: The steep chisel grind makes it possible, that I push only one scallop through paper easily, no need to do a real "cutting / sweeping" motion

[Evil D]

I have read through this thread a couple of times and see that there are many (many many in fact) proposed mods to improve the cutting performance of SE blades. For those of you with experience of this, what would you say are the most significant changes you can make to an SE blade to make it cut better? I ask as having now added a Caribbean Salt leaf SE to my work rotation I am finding it fairly uninspiring. I suspect that amongst its august PE company who all get mirror edges and daily touch ups it in its factory form is getting somewhat left in the dust. Any recommendations on how to bring out its best and make it shine?

Not really sure what to say

Mine was a cutting monster straight out of the box. What are your expectations and comparisons?

For example, I love my SE but they definitely don't slice like my regrind Military. On the other hand my reprofiled Caribbean slices way better than my factory bevel SE Military.

Hi David,
I can definitely see the benefits of SE for applications where you need your knife to cut aggressively and for protracted periods of time, and especially in abrasive materials like carpet or card board. I’ve been using my Caribbean SE for all of my daily tasks like cutting ropes, pruning plants, carving and whittling various types of wood or anything else that crops up. What I’ve noticed is that my Magnacut mule and S90V Yojumbo are staying functionally sharp for as long, but make much cleaner cuts with the same level of decisiveness (the Yojumbo might even swap the word ‘decisiveness’ for ‘extreme prejudice’ ). So I suppose what I’d like to know is do you know of a way to get SE as ferociously sharp as a PE blade? I keep all of my tools hair popping (I’m very fortunate to have time set aside for this each week at work), but I just can’t seem to reliably get the SE anything like as sharp. It’s still sticky sharp and will push cut, but it seems to lose that rapidly and I feel like I’m bludgeoning through materials. I realise as I write this that LC200N may be playing a large part in my dissatisfaction as I normally purchase firmly towards the edge retention end of the steel spectrum, my least retentive being cru wear normally.

I realise I’ve basically written an ambiguous War and Peace and don’t want to waste anyone’s time with my musings. I think I need to up my serrated sharpening game and maybe try out Magnacut SE (apparently back in stock at National Knives as of a few hours ago). It’s possible that for my use cases I’m just better off with PE, but I’m glad I’m trying SE if for no other reason than to find out. It’s all too easy to write things off in this day and age just off the back of other people’s anecdotal evidence.

Have a great day,
Al

LOL nah not a war at all, and in the end if SE just isn't for you there's nothing at all wrong with that either. The best thing you can do is get a Sharpmaker if you don't already have one and start touching up the edge on the brown medium rods. The Caribbean should sharpen up much easier than a lot of other SE grinds so you should start seeing better results if you just use the Sharpmaker by the book, not really much more than that.

On some level a serrated edge may hold an edge longer than plain edge, because of the way the points tend to protect the curves (like with a steak knife banging against a ceramic plate) but personally I touch up my SE all the time, at the very least after every heavy use. Even with the way I reprofile them I do start to dislike how they cut once they start to dull, even if they do continue making cuts. This also really depends on what I'm cutting, but once I start seeing snagging that's when the fun is over for me. Still I have used LC200N quite a bit and in some of my cutting tests I've cut some pretty nasty stuff before the edge got to the point that I'd call it dull, so I wonder if you'll see better results after a couple sharpenings.

[JoviAl]

LOL nah not a war at all, and in the end if SE just isn't for you there's nothing at all wrong with that either. The best thing you can do is get a Sharpmaker if you don't already have one and start touching up the edge on the brown medium rods. The Caribbean should sharpen up much easier than a lot of other SE grinds so you should start seeing better results if you just use the Sharpmaker by the book, not really much more than that.

On some level a serrated edge may hold an edge longer than plain edge, because of the way the points tend to protect the curves (like with a steak knife banging against a ceramic plate) but personally I touch up my SE all the time, at the very least after every heavy use. Even with the way I reprofile them I do start to dislike how they cut once they start to dull, even if they do continue making cuts. This also really depends on what I'm cutting, but once I start seeing snagging that's when the fun is over for me. Still I have used LC200N quite a bit and in some of my cutting tests I've cut some pretty nasty stuff before the edge got to the point that I'd call it dull, so I wonder if you'll see better results after a couple sharpenings.

Hi David,
I reckon you might be on to something there with the sharp maker. I usually use either a KME with diamond plates followed by a series of strops or tapes on glass blanks. While it is really great for PE it is about as useful as nipples on a piano for doing serrations.

I do love the effortlessness of how my PE’s just glide through materials as if they’re not there, but there’s definitely a time and place for a serrated knife. Interestingly I let some kids at a session I ran this morning try both my Magnacut mule and my Caribbean SE. It was about 50/50 as to which they preferred for whittling green wood, so I think a large part of my feelings is probably an existing bias through familiarity towards PE.

Anyhow thanks for your replies. I’m enjoying discussing and learning about SE almost as much as I am using it. What a great community it is on here.

Have a great morning/afternoon/evening (depending on where in the world this finds you)!

Al

[JoviAl]

So I suppose what I’d like to know is do you know of a way to get SE as ferociously sharp as a PE blade? I keep all of my tools hair popping (I’m very fortunate to have time set aside for this each week at work), but I just can’t seem to reliably get the SE anything like as sharp.

Hey, Al.
For a serrated edge, not only is the Sharpmaker the greatest thing since sliced bread, the Sharpmaker made it possible to slice the first bread. Since you seem to know how to get a nice edge on a plain edge, remember that you're doing the same thing on a serrated edge, but you're doing it to steel with a different shape.

When using the Sharpmaker, I don't do a vertical stroke like in the instructions. I tip the blade so that I perfectly match the factory edge. The Sharpie technique is very helpful to get started. I try to hit the WHOLE edge, copying the factory bevel. The Sharpie gets you in the ballpark, but you'll need magnification to ensure you're hitting the entire edge along each scallop. If you're missing the valley of the scallops, it's like not forming a burr on your plain edge. Magnification is your friend. After getting the bevel side, then I go to the flat side. I sharpen the flat side just a hair more than flat, to avoid scuffing the side of the blade.

After that, I'll go side to side a few times, and by then the edge is finished. I don't expect the serrated edge to be a great letter opener, arm shaver, or sushi slicer. If you're not getting a "sharp" edge, I'd guess you're not hitting the edge along the entirety of each serration. Again, magnification will give you a hint to where you've gone awry.

Rob

Cheers Rob I’m used to being able to get my knives hair splitting sharp and keeping them that way, so I think this is going to be a bit of a learning curve with the SE. I’m up for the challenge anyway, and worst comes to the worst and it just isn’t for me the Caribbean will make a great gift for someone.

Have a brilliant day,
Al

[JoviAl]

So I suppose what I’d like to know is do you know of a way to get SE as ferociously sharp as a PE blade? I keep all of my tools hair popping (I’m very fortunate to have time set aside for this each week at work), but I just can’t seem to reliably get the SE anything like as sharp.

Hey, Al.
For a serrated edge, not only is the Sharpmaker the greatest thing since sliced bread, the Sharpmaker made it possible to slice the first bread. Since you seem to know how to get a nice edge on a plain edge, remember that you're doing the same thing on a serrated edge, but you're doing it to steel with a different shape.

When using the Sharpmaker, I don't do a vertical stroke like in the instructions. I tip the blade so that I perfectly match the factory edge. The Sharpie technique is very helpful to get started. I try to hit the WHOLE edge, copying the factory bevel. The Sharpie gets you in the ballpark, but you'll need magnification to ensure you're hitting the entire edge along each scallop. If you're missing the valley of the scallops, it's like not forming a burr on your plain edge. Magnification is your friend. After getting the bevel side, then I go to the flat side. I sharpen the flat side just a hair more than flat, to avoid scuffing the side of the blade.

After that, I'll go side to side a few times, and by then the edge is finished. I don't expect the serrated edge to be a great letter opener, arm shaver, or sushi slicer. If you're not getting a "sharp" edge, I'd guess you're not hitting the edge along the entirety of each serration. Again, magnification will give you a hint to where you've gone awry.

Rob

Let me add:

With SE it is a lot easier to hit the right angle of the edge, it actually "clicks in place" somehow on the sharpmaker.

And: For me SE is a great letter opener / paper slicer indeed, if sharp: The steep chisel grind makes it possible, that I push only one scallop through paper easily, no need to do a real "cutting / sweeping" motion

Hi Wartstein, that’s exactly what I’m looking for - beautiful push cut sharpness in my blades. Good to hear that is attainable!

Have a great day,
Al

[Wartstein]

...

....

....

...
On some level a serrated edge may hold an edge longer than plain edge, because of the way the points tend to protect the curves (like with a steak knife banging against a ceramic plate) ...

For me SE definitely holds an edge longer than PE, one reason will certainly be what you describe, another one maybe the more acute (chisel grind) edge angle?

Plus: On a given edge length, measured from heel to tip, SE effectively has more actual edge due to the wavy scallops. This should translate into "slower dulling" by tendency, right?

[RustyIron]

Cheers Rob I’m used to being able to get my knives hair splitting sharp and keeping them that way, so I think this is going to be a bit of a learning curve with the SE. I’m up for the challenge anyway, and worst comes to the worst and it just isn’t for me the Caribbean will make a great gift for someone.

The challenge for me is to get rid of my "one knife to rule them all" mentality. The plain edge serves me well for most stuff, but when I really need to hack through stuff, the serrated edge is better. Now I just need to learn to predict what I'll be doing during the day and choose the appropriate knife. I'm NOT going to start carrying around a whole cutlery shop in my pockets.

It's been raining here for days, and today is the first clear day. I'm going to go out now and do some yard work... with the SE in my pocket.

[JoviAl]

Cheers Rob I’m used to being able to get my knives hair splitting sharp and keeping them that way, so I think this is going to be a bit of a learning curve with the SE. I’m up for the challenge anyway, and worst comes to the worst and it just isn’t for me the Caribbean will make a great gift for someone.

The challenge for me is to get rid of my "one knife to rule them all" mentality. The plain edge serves me well for most stuff, but when I really need to hack through stuff, the serrated edge is better. Now I just need to learn to predict what I'll be doing during the day and choose the appropriate knife. I'm NOT going to start carrying around a whole cutlery shop in my pockets.

It's been raining here for days, and today is the first clear day. I'm going to go out now and do some yard work... with the SE in my pocket.

I feel you there on avoiding becoming a walking cutlery shop! I work outdoors all day and always have two knives with me (an heir and a spare if you will), so I’ve taken to carrying one PE and one SE most days for the last couple of weeks (although today is a Magnacut mule and a Manix XL, because variety is the spice of life).

With regards to the ‘one knife to rule them all’, if I had to choose one it would likely be my angry ported Husqvarna 372XP OE . Jokes aside, I agree - there’s no such thing as a bad Spyderco, just the wrong situation to use it in. The one that comes closest for me is probably my PM2 tanto. I would literally bulk buy them if I could, they’re that good to use.

Have a great day,
Al

[twinboysdad]

Cheers Rob I’m used to being able to get my knives hair splitting sharp and keeping them that way, so I think this is going to be a bit of a learning curve with the SE. I’m up for the challenge anyway, and worst comes to the worst and it just isn’t for me the Caribbean will make a great gift for someone.

The challenge for me is to get rid of my "one knife to rule them all" mentality. The plain edge serves me well for most stuff, but when I really need to hack through stuff, the serrated edge is better. Now I just need to learn to predict what I'll be doing during the day and choose the appropriate knife. I'm NOT going to start carrying around a whole cutlery shop in my pockets.

It's been raining here for days, and today is the first clear day. I'm going to go out now and do some yard work... with the SE in my pocket.

I too suffer from OKTRTA badly. My One Gun To Rule Them All affliction is even worse! I will say I haven’t yet used my LT2 LW SE I grabbed but need to see what’s up. VG10 is a great SE performer to me

[WyoJon]

Carried an atlantic salt serrated years ago before switching to benchmades for a while. That thing was a warp in physics. Pinch cut 1/2" nylon rope clean through. Id sharpen it on sharp maker stones, freehand. It would easily slice rolling papers. Those spikes and curves grab anything they touch, pull it in sliding it across their angles while increasing cutting area. They cut like wild. My new tasman 2 salt is on order