SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
Bill1170
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Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

#261

Post by Bill1170 »

Chisel-ground blades are great for shaving filler flush to a surface. Was trimming partially hardened epoxy from some posts I’d rot repaired, and the Endura 4 SE did a great job, taking nice thin shavings to get me close so it wouldn’t require a ton of sanding when fully cured. The wavy serrations are great to work with. No snagging at all.
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ladybug93
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Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

#262

Post by ladybug93 »

i've recently found another great use for the spyderedge. it makes an amazing back scratcher. you have to be pretty careful, but it's so good. my sheepsfoot caribbean especially excels with the rounded tip and nearly wharncliffe edge.
keep your knife sharp and your focus sharper.
current collection:
C253GBBK, C258GFBL, C101GBBK2, C11GYW, C11FWNB20CV, C101GBN15V2, C101GODFDE2, C60GGY, C149G, C189, C101GBN2, MT35, C211TI, C242CF, C217GSSF, C101BN2, C85G2, C91BBK, C142G, C122GBBK, LBK, LYL3HB, C193, C28YL2, C11ZPGYD, C41YL5, C252G, C130G, PLKIT1
spyderco steels:
CPM 20CV, CPM 15V, CTS 204P, CPM CRUWEAR, CPM S30V, N690Co, M390, CPM MagnaCut, LC200N, CTS XHP, H1, 8Cr13MoV, GIN-1, CTS BD1, VG-10, VG-10/Damascus, 440C
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Sonorum
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Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

#263

Post by Sonorum »

ladybug93 wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:35 am
i've recently found another great use for the spyderedge. it makes an amazing back scratcher. you have to be pretty careful, but it's so good. my sheepsfoot caribbean especially excels with the rounded tip and nearly wharncliffe edge.
You are a braver person than me :D
/ David
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ladybug93
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Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

#264

Post by ladybug93 »

Sonorum wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:45 pm
ladybug93 wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:35 am
i've recently found another great use for the spyderedge. it makes an amazing back scratcher. you have to be pretty careful, but it's so good. my sheepsfoot caribbean especially excels with the rounded tip and nearly wharncliffe edge.
You are a braver person than me :D
or dumber...? 🤣
keep your knife sharp and your focus sharper.
current collection:
C253GBBK, C258GFBL, C101GBBK2, C11GYW, C11FWNB20CV, C101GBN15V2, C101GODFDE2, C60GGY, C149G, C189, C101GBN2, MT35, C211TI, C242CF, C217GSSF, C101BN2, C85G2, C91BBK, C142G, C122GBBK, LBK, LYL3HB, C193, C28YL2, C11ZPGYD, C41YL5, C252G, C130G, PLKIT1
spyderco steels:
CPM 20CV, CPM 15V, CTS 204P, CPM CRUWEAR, CPM S30V, N690Co, M390, CPM MagnaCut, LC200N, CTS XHP, H1, 8Cr13MoV, GIN-1, CTS BD1, VG-10, VG-10/Damascus, 440C
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Sonorum
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Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

#265

Post by Sonorum »

ladybug93 wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 3:02 pm
Sonorum wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:45 pm
ladybug93 wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:35 am
i've recently found another great use for the spyderedge. it makes an amazing back scratcher. you have to be pretty careful, but it's so good. my sheepsfoot caribbean especially excels with the rounded tip and nearly wharncliffe edge.
You are a braver person than me :D
or dumber...? 🤣
Well my dumbass machismo tells me to give it a try!
/ David
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Paraguy
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Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

#266

Post by Paraguy »

ladybug93 wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:35 am
i've recently found another great use for the spyderedge. it makes an amazing back scratcher. you have to be pretty careful, but it's so good. my sheepsfoot caribbean especially excels with the rounded tip and nearly wharncliffe edge.
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Wartstein
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Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

#267

Post by Wartstein »

Great that this is a sticky now!!! :)

But: Vivis SE sharpening thread should be so too imho viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84544

(EDIT: Or in a dedicated sharpening sub forum viewtopic.php?f=2&t=89684)
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Evil D
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Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

#268

Post by Evil D »

Wartstein wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 9:37 pm
Great that this is a sticky now!!! :)

But: Vivis SE sharpening thread should be so too imho viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84544

(EDIT: Or in a dedicated sharpening sub forum viewtopic.php?f=2&t=89684)


I added a link to it at the top of this thread.
All SE all the time since 2017
~David
Bill1170
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Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

#269

Post by Bill1170 »

Sticky at last!! There’s no better place than this forum for the definitive thread on serrated knife edge geometry and performance. 👍👍
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Brock O Lee
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Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

#270

Post by Brock O Lee »

With the buzz around the new Police 4 SE, I decided to read this thread. Thank you for the education! :spyder:

I have a love/hate relationship with SE, but I may be coming around slowly… :)

I love the SE kitchen knives, K04 and K05, and have been using them daily for years. Similarly the Victornox serrated paring/steak knives are a hit in the kitchen. Occasional sharpening on the SM using the brown/white rods works well for all of them.

Unfortunately the rest of my SE’s are gathering dust: Ladyhawk Salt, Dragonfly Salt, Salt 1, Aqua Salt FB, Native 5, JD Smith. All of them are very aggressive and snaggers par excellence.

I understood part of the problem was a lack of sharpness, so I’ve made a few unsuccessful attempts over the years to sharpen most them. Still a snagfest. I am a proficient freehand sharpener of plain edges, but serrations defeated my best attempts.

I realise now there were a number of problems with my old technique. This is the journey of the poor Dragonfly Salt over the years, which took the brunt of my ignorance:
- initial lack of patience to set the bevel properly on the SM brown stones using the SM technique as advertised. I just cannot get it to slice paper without snagging.
- bought diamond rods, and thought I used light enough pressure, but eventually stripped the diamonds off the corners, using the SM technique as advertised. Same result.
- tried to hit the apex freehand using 701’s, and managed to get the bevel angles all over the place. Now it really needed a reprofile! :o
- bought a DMT Diafold coarse conical diamond rod to “fix” my previous screw-ups, and managed to make the angles much worse by “working the scallops individually”. :o
- tried to “restore” the factory edge profile by shaping the teeth to be nice and sharp and pointy! :o

Thank you for the explanations and examples of good serrations in this thread. With this newfound knowledge I went to work on the mangled Dragonfly and Salt 1 yesterday. I have undone most of the unspeakable horrors of the past, and I am well pleased with the paper slicing results!

Image

Image

To repeat my key learning, to sharpen serrations successfully, you have to be patient and let the SM do it’s work. It is desirable for the points to mellow out and round off over time! Work towards that. In hindsight, this makes a lot of sence... Sometimes you just need one good example to make a concept “click”. :)
Hans

Favourite Spydies: Military, PM2, Shaman, UKPK
Others: Victorinox Pioneer, CRK L Sebenza 31, CRK L Inkosi
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Evil D
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Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

#271

Post by Evil D »

Brock O Lee wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 10:36 pm

To repeat my key learning, to sharpen serrations successfully, you have to be patient and let the SM do it’s work. It is desirable for the points to mellow out and round off over time! Work towards that. In hindsight, this makes a lot of sence... Sometimes you just need one good example to make a concept “click”. :)



The good news is this isn't something you need to do very often, and it makes fixing edge damage easier in the future.
All SE all the time since 2017
~David
Josh1973
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Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

#272

Post by Josh1973 »

Great post on serrated edges Evil D. I ruined my first Byrd serrated hawkbill by using a diamond tapered rod.
Jason Paul
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Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

#273

Post by Jason Paul »

Brock O Lee wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 10:36 pm
With the buzz around the new Police 4 SE, I decided to read this thread. Thank you for the education! :spyder:

I have a love/hate relationship with SE, but I may be coming around slowly… :)

I love the SE kitchen knives, K04 and K05, and have been using them daily for years. Similarly the Victornox serrated paring/steak knives are a hit in the kitchen. Occasional sharpening on the SM using the brown/white rods works well for all of them.

Unfortunately the rest of my SE’s are gathering dust: Ladyhawk Salt, Dragonfly Salt, Salt 1, Aqua Salt FB, Native 5, JD Smith. All of them are very aggressive and snaggers par excellence.

I understood part of the problem was a lack of sharpness, so I’ve made a few unsuccessful attempts over the years to sharpen most them. Still a snagfest. I am a proficient freehand sharpener of plain edges, but serrations defeated my best attempts.

I realise now there were a number of problems with my old technique. This is the journey of the poor Dragonfly Salt over the years, which took the brunt of my ignorance:
- initial lack of patience to set the bevel properly on the SM brown stones using the SM technique as advertised. I just cannot get it to slice paper without snagging.
- bought diamond rods, and thought I used light enough pressure, but eventually stripped the diamonds off the corners, using the SM technique as advertised. Same result.
- tried to hit the apex freehand using 701’s, and managed to get the bevel angles all over the place. Now it really needed a reprofile! :o
- bought a DMT Diafold coarse conical diamond rod to “fix” my previous screw-ups, and managed to make the angles much worse by “working the scallops individually”. :o
- tried to “restore” the factory edge profile by shaping the teeth to be nice and sharp and pointy! :o

Thank you for the explanations and examples of good serrations in this thread. With this newfound knowledge I went to work on the mangled Dragonfly and Salt 1 yesterday. I have undone most of the unspeakable horrors of the past, and I am well pleased with the paper slicing results!

Image

Image

To repeat my key learning, to sharpen serrations successfully, you have to be patient and let the SM do it’s work. It is desirable for the points to mellow out and round off over time! Work towards that. In hindsight, this makes a lot of sence... Sometimes you just need one good example to make a concept “click”. :)
Quick question - what exactly did you do differently this time vs. your previous attempts that didn't work?

It sounds like you used the Sharpmaker. Did you set to the 30-degree side only? Did you use diamond/CBN rods first, then the brown rods? Fine or ultra-fine rods at all? No microbevel with the 40-degree side?

Did you essentially do the same thing you did the first time, but just went slower, lighter pressure, more careful with the angle?

Thanks!
Jason
Jason

Current Rotation:
Pacific Salt 2 PE (H1)
Spydiechef
Stretch 2 (K390)
Chaparral LW
Dragonfly 2 Salt SE (Bonus 2nd blade!)
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Brock O Lee
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Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

#274

Post by Brock O Lee »

For the Dragonfly:
- Mark bevel with Sharpie throughout the process
- Sharpmaker on 20 dps to match existing bevel, with very used diamond rod corners
- Lots of passes, deburr the back at low angle on SM med
- Switch to SM med on 20+ dps to refine bevel, plus deburr every so often
- Switch to SM fine on 20+ dps to finish, plus deburr every so often
- Finished with a micro bevel

For the Salt 1, I “cheated” a bit:
- cut into SM med a number of times at 90 deg to flatten the points considerably (they looked a bit square afterwards!)
- grind down the ridges between scallops on the bevel with a DMT coarse freehand to smooth them out
- I then followed the same process as with the Dragonfly.
- this resulted in rounder points, and flatter ridges, and is visible on the photos.
- I like this approach, it accelerates the natural wear/sharpening process, and gets you quicker to a point where the ridges and points are rounder and less snaggy.

My SM diamonds are now toast. There are no diamonds left on the corners. I plan to get a CBN set next to see how they perform.
Hans

Favourite Spydies: Military, PM2, Shaman, UKPK
Others: Victorinox Pioneer, CRK L Sebenza 31, CRK L Inkosi
Bill1170
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Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

#275

Post by Bill1170 »

Brock O Lee wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 4:52 pm
For the Dragonfly:
- Mark bevel with Sharpie throughout the process
- Sharpmaker on 20 dps to match existing bevel, with very used diamond rod corners
- Lots of passes, deburr the back at low angle on SM med
- Switch to SM med on 20+ dps to refine bevel, plus deburr every so often
- Switch to SM fine on 20+ dps to finish, plus deburr every so often
- Finished with a micro bevel

For the Salt 1, I “cheated” a bit:
- cut into SM med a number of times at 90 deg to flatten the points considerably (they looked a bit square afterwards!)
- grind down the ridges between scallops on the bevel with a DMT coarse freehand to smooth them out
- I then followed the same process as with the Dragonfly.
- this resulted in rounder points, and flatter ridges, and is visible on the photos.
- I like this approach, it accelerates the natural wear/sharpening process, and gets you quicker to a point where the ridges and points are rounder and less snaggy.

My SM diamonds are now toast. There are no diamonds left on the corners. I plan to get a CBN set next to see how they perform.
I also used a bench stone to lower the ridges between scallops before applying the Sharpmaker in earnest. Cutting into the brown rods to pull the points is an interesting idea, one I may try if I need to reprofile a Spyderedge again that’s very snaggy.

I think you will find the CBN rods more durable than the diamond rods, but you still need to use light force and let the grit do the work.
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sal
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Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

#276

Post by sal »

Josh1973 wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 3:13 pm
Great post on serrated edges Evil D. I ruined my first Byrd serrated hawkbill by using a diamond tapered rod.
In My opinion. Tapered rods are very difficult to make work effectively. I tested them and never recommended them.

sal
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Evil D
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Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

#277

Post by Evil D »

Josh1973 wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 3:13 pm
Great post on serrated edges Evil D. I ruined my first Byrd serrated hawkbill by using a diamond tapered rod.



I started out with a tapered diamond rod and stropped the edge with a Dremel and a polishing bit. It actually worked quite well, I can manage to get very nice edges that way but the serrations looked like total garbage. The good news is you can most likely fix them with a Sharpmaker and CBN or diamond rods, it just depends on how steep you ended up making the bevel angle.
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Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

#278

Post by JRinFL »

I like the tapered rods to fix chipped and damaged serrations, but not for general sharpening tasks. Too tedious and too easy to mess up the serration.
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yablanowitz
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Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

#279

Post by yablanowitz »

Yeah but they come in handy when you pick up a used SE that someone has already destroyed with improper sharpening. The trick is - don't try to actually sharpen with it, just use it to cut grooves for the Sharpmaker rods to fall into and turn back into serrations. I have a couple of SE Spydies that were down to "sorta wavy edged" when I got them and are now almost serrated again. The Road Warrior (my daily carry first gen Police Model) is one of them.

Image

Image

It still has a way to go, but this knife has been through a lot.
Josh1973
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Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

#280

Post by Josh1973 »

Evil D wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 2:44 am
Josh1973 wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 3:13 pm
Great post on serrated edges Evil D. I ruined my first Byrd serrated hawkbill by using a diamond tapered rod.



I started out with a tapered diamond rod and stropped the edge with a Dremel and a polishing bit. It actually worked quite well, I can manage to get very nice edges that way but the serrations looked like total garbage. The good news is you can most likely fix them with a Sharpmaker and CBN or diamond rods, it just depends on how steep you ended up making the bevel angle.
To be honest I screwed up lol. At that time I was a noob to sharpening at the time. And the diamond rod I had was a course grit DMT. I used that Byrd for rough work and made it into a practice piece for sharpening. Also I used too much pressure on sharpening it.

Oddly enough I found a standard kitchen honing steel will work well if you keep it touched up regularly.
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