SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
Chisel-ground blades are great for shaving filler flush to a surface. Was trimming partially hardened epoxy from some posts I’d rot repaired, and the Endura 4 SE did a great job, taking nice thin shavings to get me close so it wouldn’t require a ton of sanding when fully cured. The wavy serrations are great to work with. No snagging at all.
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
i've recently found another great use for the spyderedge. it makes an amazing back scratcher. you have to be pretty careful, but it's so good. my sheepsfoot caribbean especially excels with the rounded tip and nearly wharncliffe edge.
keep your knife sharp and your focus sharper.
current collection:
C36MCW2, C258YL, C253GBBK, C258GFBL, C101GBBK2, C11GYW, C11FWNB20CV, C101GBN15V2, C101GODFDE2, C60GGY, C149G, C189, C101GBN2, MT35, C211TI, C242CF, C217GSSF, C101BN2, C85G2, C91BBK, C142G, C122GBBK, LBK, LYL3HB, C193, C28YL2, C11ZPGYD, C41YL5, C252G, C130G, PLKIT1
spyderco steels:
H2, CPM 20CV, CPM 15V, CTS 204P, CPM CRUWEAR, CPM S30V, N690Co, M390, CPM MagnaCut, LC200N, CTS XHP, H1, 8Cr13MoV, GIN-1, CTS BD1, VG-10, VG-10/Damascus, 440C
current collection:
C36MCW2, C258YL, C253GBBK, C258GFBL, C101GBBK2, C11GYW, C11FWNB20CV, C101GBN15V2, C101GODFDE2, C60GGY, C149G, C189, C101GBN2, MT35, C211TI, C242CF, C217GSSF, C101BN2, C85G2, C91BBK, C142G, C122GBBK, LBK, LYL3HB, C193, C28YL2, C11ZPGYD, C41YL5, C252G, C130G, PLKIT1
spyderco steels:
H2, CPM 20CV, CPM 15V, CTS 204P, CPM CRUWEAR, CPM S30V, N690Co, M390, CPM MagnaCut, LC200N, CTS XHP, H1, 8Cr13MoV, GIN-1, CTS BD1, VG-10, VG-10/Damascus, 440C
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
You are a braver person than me :D
/ David
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
keep your knife sharp and your focus sharper.
current collection:
C36MCW2, C258YL, C253GBBK, C258GFBL, C101GBBK2, C11GYW, C11FWNB20CV, C101GBN15V2, C101GODFDE2, C60GGY, C149G, C189, C101GBN2, MT35, C211TI, C242CF, C217GSSF, C101BN2, C85G2, C91BBK, C142G, C122GBBK, LBK, LYL3HB, C193, C28YL2, C11ZPGYD, C41YL5, C252G, C130G, PLKIT1
spyderco steels:
H2, CPM 20CV, CPM 15V, CTS 204P, CPM CRUWEAR, CPM S30V, N690Co, M390, CPM MagnaCut, LC200N, CTS XHP, H1, 8Cr13MoV, GIN-1, CTS BD1, VG-10, VG-10/Damascus, 440C
current collection:
C36MCW2, C258YL, C253GBBK, C258GFBL, C101GBBK2, C11GYW, C11FWNB20CV, C101GBN15V2, C101GODFDE2, C60GGY, C149G, C189, C101GBN2, MT35, C211TI, C242CF, C217GSSF, C101BN2, C85G2, C91BBK, C142G, C122GBBK, LBK, LYL3HB, C193, C28YL2, C11ZPGYD, C41YL5, C252G, C130G, PLKIT1
spyderco steels:
H2, CPM 20CV, CPM 15V, CTS 204P, CPM CRUWEAR, CPM S30V, N690Co, M390, CPM MagnaCut, LC200N, CTS XHP, H1, 8Cr13MoV, GIN-1, CTS BD1, VG-10, VG-10/Damascus, 440C
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
Well my dumbass machismo tells me to give it a try!
/ David
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
Great that this is a sticky now!!! :)
But: Vivis SE sharpening thread should be so too imho viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84544
(EDIT: Or in a dedicated sharpening sub forum viewtopic.php?f=2&t=89684)
But: Vivis SE sharpening thread should be so too imho viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84544
(EDIT: Or in a dedicated sharpening sub forum viewtopic.php?f=2&t=89684)
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
Wartstein wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 9:37 pmGreat that this is a sticky now!!! :)
But: Vivis SE sharpening thread should be so too imho viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84544
(EDIT: Or in a dedicated sharpening sub forum viewtopic.php?f=2&t=89684)
I added a link to it at the top of this thread.
All SE all the time since 2017
~David
~David
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
Sticky at last!! There’s no better place than this forum for the definitive thread on serrated knife edge geometry and performance.
- Brock O Lee
- Member
- Posts: 3320
- Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:34 am
- Location: Victoria, Australia
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
With the buzz around the new Police 4 SE, I decided to read this thread. Thank you for the education! :spyder:
I have a love/hate relationship with SE, but I may be coming around slowly… :)
I love the SE kitchen knives, K04 and K05, and have been using them daily for years. Similarly the Victornox serrated paring/steak knives are a hit in the kitchen. Occasional sharpening on the SM using the brown/white rods works well for all of them.
Unfortunately the rest of my SE’s are gathering dust: Ladyhawk Salt, Dragonfly Salt, Salt 1, Aqua Salt FB, Native 5, JD Smith. All of them are very aggressive and snaggers par excellence.
I understood part of the problem was a lack of sharpness, so I’ve made a few unsuccessful attempts over the years to sharpen most them. Still a snagfest. I am a proficient freehand sharpener of plain edges, but serrations defeated my best attempts.
I realise now there were a number of problems with my old technique. This is the journey of the poor Dragonfly Salt over the years, which took the brunt of my ignorance:
- initial lack of patience to set the bevel properly on the SM brown stones using the SM technique as advertised. I just cannot get it to slice paper without snagging.
- bought diamond rods, and thought I used light enough pressure, but eventually stripped the diamonds off the corners, using the SM technique as advertised. Same result.
- tried to hit the apex freehand using 701’s, and managed to get the bevel angles all over the place. Now it really needed a reprofile! :o
- bought a DMT Diafold coarse conical diamond rod to “fix” my previous screw-ups, and managed to make the angles much worse by “working the scallops individually”. :o
- tried to “restore” the factory edge profile by shaping the teeth to be nice and sharp and pointy! :o
Thank you for the explanations and examples of good serrations in this thread. With this newfound knowledge I went to work on the mangled Dragonfly and Salt 1 yesterday. I have undone most of the unspeakable horrors of the past, and I am well pleased with the paper slicing results!
To repeat my key learning, to sharpen serrations successfully, you have to be patient and let the SM do it’s work. It is desirable for the points to mellow out and round off over time! Work towards that. In hindsight, this makes a lot of sence... Sometimes you just need one good example to make a concept “click”. :)
I have a love/hate relationship with SE, but I may be coming around slowly… :)
I love the SE kitchen knives, K04 and K05, and have been using them daily for years. Similarly the Victornox serrated paring/steak knives are a hit in the kitchen. Occasional sharpening on the SM using the brown/white rods works well for all of them.
Unfortunately the rest of my SE’s are gathering dust: Ladyhawk Salt, Dragonfly Salt, Salt 1, Aqua Salt FB, Native 5, JD Smith. All of them are very aggressive and snaggers par excellence.
I understood part of the problem was a lack of sharpness, so I’ve made a few unsuccessful attempts over the years to sharpen most them. Still a snagfest. I am a proficient freehand sharpener of plain edges, but serrations defeated my best attempts.
I realise now there were a number of problems with my old technique. This is the journey of the poor Dragonfly Salt over the years, which took the brunt of my ignorance:
- initial lack of patience to set the bevel properly on the SM brown stones using the SM technique as advertised. I just cannot get it to slice paper without snagging.
- bought diamond rods, and thought I used light enough pressure, but eventually stripped the diamonds off the corners, using the SM technique as advertised. Same result.
- tried to hit the apex freehand using 701’s, and managed to get the bevel angles all over the place. Now it really needed a reprofile! :o
- bought a DMT Diafold coarse conical diamond rod to “fix” my previous screw-ups, and managed to make the angles much worse by “working the scallops individually”. :o
- tried to “restore” the factory edge profile by shaping the teeth to be nice and sharp and pointy! :o
Thank you for the explanations and examples of good serrations in this thread. With this newfound knowledge I went to work on the mangled Dragonfly and Salt 1 yesterday. I have undone most of the unspeakable horrors of the past, and I am well pleased with the paper slicing results!
To repeat my key learning, to sharpen serrations successfully, you have to be patient and let the SM do it’s work. It is desirable for the points to mellow out and round off over time! Work towards that. In hindsight, this makes a lot of sence... Sometimes you just need one good example to make a concept “click”. :)
Hans
Favourite Spydies: Military, PM2, Shaman, UKPK
Others: Victorinox Pioneer, CRK L Sebenza 31, CRK L Inkosi
Favourite Spydies: Military, PM2, Shaman, UKPK
Others: Victorinox Pioneer, CRK L Sebenza 31, CRK L Inkosi
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
Brock O Lee wrote: ↑Sat May 15, 2021 10:36 pm
To repeat my key learning, to sharpen serrations successfully, you have to be patient and let the SM do it’s work. It is desirable for the points to mellow out and round off over time! Work towards that. In hindsight, this makes a lot of sence... Sometimes you just need one good example to make a concept “click”. :)
The good news is this isn't something you need to do very often, and it makes fixing edge damage easier in the future.
All SE all the time since 2017
~David
~David
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
Great post on serrated edges Evil D. I ruined my first Byrd serrated hawkbill by using a diamond tapered rod.
-
- Member
- Posts: 109
- Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:31 am
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
Quick question - what exactly did you do differently this time vs. your previous attempts that didn't work?Brock O Lee wrote: ↑Sat May 15, 2021 10:36 pmWith the buzz around the new Police 4 SE, I decided to read this thread. Thank you for the education! :spyder:
I have a love/hate relationship with SE, but I may be coming around slowly… :)
I love the SE kitchen knives, K04 and K05, and have been using them daily for years. Similarly the Victornox serrated paring/steak knives are a hit in the kitchen. Occasional sharpening on the SM using the brown/white rods works well for all of them.
Unfortunately the rest of my SE’s are gathering dust: Ladyhawk Salt, Dragonfly Salt, Salt 1, Aqua Salt FB, Native 5, JD Smith. All of them are very aggressive and snaggers par excellence.
I understood part of the problem was a lack of sharpness, so I’ve made a few unsuccessful attempts over the years to sharpen most them. Still a snagfest. I am a proficient freehand sharpener of plain edges, but serrations defeated my best attempts.
I realise now there were a number of problems with my old technique. This is the journey of the poor Dragonfly Salt over the years, which took the brunt of my ignorance:
- initial lack of patience to set the bevel properly on the SM brown stones using the SM technique as advertised. I just cannot get it to slice paper without snagging.
- bought diamond rods, and thought I used light enough pressure, but eventually stripped the diamonds off the corners, using the SM technique as advertised. Same result.
- tried to hit the apex freehand using 701’s, and managed to get the bevel angles all over the place. Now it really needed a reprofile! :o
- bought a DMT Diafold coarse conical diamond rod to “fix” my previous screw-ups, and managed to make the angles much worse by “working the scallops individually”. :o
- tried to “restore” the factory edge profile by shaping the teeth to be nice and sharp and pointy! :o
Thank you for the explanations and examples of good serrations in this thread. With this newfound knowledge I went to work on the mangled Dragonfly and Salt 1 yesterday. I have undone most of the unspeakable horrors of the past, and I am well pleased with the paper slicing results!
To repeat my key learning, to sharpen serrations successfully, you have to be patient and let the SM do it’s work. It is desirable for the points to mellow out and round off over time! Work towards that. In hindsight, this makes a lot of sence... Sometimes you just need one good example to make a concept “click”. :)
It sounds like you used the Sharpmaker. Did you set to the 30-degree side only? Did you use diamond/CBN rods first, then the brown rods? Fine or ultra-fine rods at all? No microbevel with the 40-degree side?
Did you essentially do the same thing you did the first time, but just went slower, lighter pressure, more careful with the angle?
Thanks!
Jason
Jason
Current Rotation:
Pacific Salt 2 PE (H1)
Spydiechef
Stretch 2 (K390)
Chaparral LW
Dragonfly 2 Salt SE (Bonus 2nd blade!)
Current Rotation:
Pacific Salt 2 PE (H1)
Spydiechef
Stretch 2 (K390)
Chaparral LW
Dragonfly 2 Salt SE (Bonus 2nd blade!)
- Brock O Lee
- Member
- Posts: 3320
- Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:34 am
- Location: Victoria, Australia
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
For the Dragonfly:
- Mark bevel with Sharpie throughout the process
- Sharpmaker on 20 dps to match existing bevel, with very used diamond rod corners
- Lots of passes, deburr the back at low angle on SM med
- Switch to SM med on 20+ dps to refine bevel, plus deburr every so often
- Switch to SM fine on 20+ dps to finish, plus deburr every so often
- Finished with a micro bevel
For the Salt 1, I “cheated” a bit:
- cut into SM med a number of times at 90 deg to flatten the points considerably (they looked a bit square afterwards!)
- grind down the ridges between scallops on the bevel with a DMT coarse freehand to smooth them out
- I then followed the same process as with the Dragonfly.
- this resulted in rounder points, and flatter ridges, and is visible on the photos.
- I like this approach, it accelerates the natural wear/sharpening process, and gets you quicker to a point where the ridges and points are rounder and less snaggy.
My SM diamonds are now toast. There are no diamonds left on the corners. I plan to get a CBN set next to see how they perform.
- Mark bevel with Sharpie throughout the process
- Sharpmaker on 20 dps to match existing bevel, with very used diamond rod corners
- Lots of passes, deburr the back at low angle on SM med
- Switch to SM med on 20+ dps to refine bevel, plus deburr every so often
- Switch to SM fine on 20+ dps to finish, plus deburr every so often
- Finished with a micro bevel
For the Salt 1, I “cheated” a bit:
- cut into SM med a number of times at 90 deg to flatten the points considerably (they looked a bit square afterwards!)
- grind down the ridges between scallops on the bevel with a DMT coarse freehand to smooth them out
- I then followed the same process as with the Dragonfly.
- this resulted in rounder points, and flatter ridges, and is visible on the photos.
- I like this approach, it accelerates the natural wear/sharpening process, and gets you quicker to a point where the ridges and points are rounder and less snaggy.
My SM diamonds are now toast. There are no diamonds left on the corners. I plan to get a CBN set next to see how they perform.
Hans
Favourite Spydies: Military, PM2, Shaman, UKPK
Others: Victorinox Pioneer, CRK L Sebenza 31, CRK L Inkosi
Favourite Spydies: Military, PM2, Shaman, UKPK
Others: Victorinox Pioneer, CRK L Sebenza 31, CRK L Inkosi
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
I also used a bench stone to lower the ridges between scallops before applying the Sharpmaker in earnest. Cutting into the brown rods to pull the points is an interesting idea, one I may try if I need to reprofile a Spyderedge again that’s very snaggy.Brock O Lee wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 4:52 pmFor the Dragonfly:
- Mark bevel with Sharpie throughout the process
- Sharpmaker on 20 dps to match existing bevel, with very used diamond rod corners
- Lots of passes, deburr the back at low angle on SM med
- Switch to SM med on 20+ dps to refine bevel, plus deburr every so often
- Switch to SM fine on 20+ dps to finish, plus deburr every so often
- Finished with a micro bevel
For the Salt 1, I “cheated” a bit:
- cut into SM med a number of times at 90 deg to flatten the points considerably (they looked a bit square afterwards!)
- grind down the ridges between scallops on the bevel with a DMT coarse freehand to smooth them out
- I then followed the same process as with the Dragonfly.
- this resulted in rounder points, and flatter ridges, and is visible on the photos.
- I like this approach, it accelerates the natural wear/sharpening process, and gets you quicker to a point where the ridges and points are rounder and less snaggy.
My SM diamonds are now toast. There are no diamonds left on the corners. I plan to get a CBN set next to see how they perform.
I think you will find the CBN rods more durable than the diamond rods, but you still need to use light force and let the grit do the work.
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
I started out with a tapered diamond rod and stropped the edge with a Dremel and a polishing bit. It actually worked quite well, I can manage to get very nice edges that way but the serrations looked like total garbage. The good news is you can most likely fix them with a Sharpmaker and CBN or diamond rods, it just depends on how steep you ended up making the bevel angle.
All SE all the time since 2017
~David
~David
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- Member
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- Location: Unfashionable West End of the Galaxy (SE USA)
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
I like the tapered rods to fix chipped and damaged serrations, but not for general sharpening tasks. Too tedious and too easy to mess up the serration.
"...it costs nothing to be polite." - Winston Churchill
“Maybe the cheese in the mousetrap is an artificially created cheaper price?” -Sal
Friends call me Jim. As do my foes.
M.N.O.S.D. 0001
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Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
Yeah but they come in handy when you pick up a used SE that someone has already destroyed with improper sharpening. The trick is - don't try to actually sharpen with it, just use it to cut grooves for the Sharpmaker rods to fall into and turn back into serrations. I have a couple of SE Spydies that were down to "sorta wavy edged" when I got them and are now almost serrated again. The Road Warrior (my daily carry first gen Police Model) is one of them.
It still has a way to go, but this knife has been through a lot.
It still has a way to go, but this knife has been through a lot.
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
To be honest I screwed up lol. At that time I was a noob to sharpening at the time. And the diamond rod I had was a course grit DMT. I used that Byrd for rough work and made it into a practice piece for sharpening. Also I used too much pressure on sharpening it.Evil D wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 2:44 am
I started out with a tapered diamond rod and stropped the edge with a Dremel and a polishing bit. It actually worked quite well, I can manage to get very nice edges that way but the serrations looked like total garbage. The good news is you can most likely fix them with a Sharpmaker and CBN or diamond rods, it just depends on how steep you ended up making the bevel angle.
Oddly enough I found a standard kitchen honing steel will work well if you keep it touched up regularly.