SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

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Bill1170
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Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

#301

Post by Bill1170 »

Evil D wrote:
Fri Sep 03, 2021 2:55 am
Bill1170 wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 10:01 pm
I decided to reprofile my SE Endela to 15 degrees on the scallops. I’m using the CBN rods, same ones I used to reprofile my saber-ground SE Endura. I’m almost to the apex everywhere, just missing a tiny bit in the three large scallops closest to the handle.

Unlike the Endura, the serration pattern on the FFG Endela still looks good. The bevel is about twice as tall as factory, whereas the bevel on the SG Endura got to be 3 times as tall as factory by the time I reached the apex, and the serrations became extremely wavy and poorly defined on the thicker Endura blade.

When first starting out reprofiling a Spyderedge to a more acute bevel angle, progress comes rapidly because you’re just grinding away the shoulder line where the tops of the serrations meet the primary bevel. As work proceeds, progress becomes increasingly slow because the band of steel being removed grows steadily wider. Towards the end it takes hundreds of strokes to eliminate a 0.3 mm area near the apex that’s still at the ~20 degrees factory grind. My unaided eye can’t even see if I’m at the apex, even with Sharpie marking, so I try to push cut paper in the big scallops. Apexed scallops do it easily. Ones that won’t push cut require more grinding. I’m very close now, and am wondering if I’ll keep the “hungry” coarse finish off the CBN rods or if I’ll refine it with the ceramic rods.


That last little fraction of bevel is always the most tedious part, I have my Caribbean and Autonomy sitting on my desk right now because I've had to move on to other stuff before making it all the way. The good news is this process doesn't need done very often, especially if you make it a routine to go back to the 30 slots and remove any micro bevel you develop through touch ups. I'm admittedly really bad with this and my micro bevels end up anything but "micro", so I end up with all my knives needing reprofiled after a while. I need to just make it a routine to drop back to the 30s maybe every other sharpening so I'm never spending too much time with it.


It's sort of a fun problem to have for me because it does force me to change up my EDC, which is another thing I'm terrible at doing. Lately I've been using my rhinoplasty Stretch a lot and it's actually very refreshing. Lately I've sort of been in a slump with the hobby and I think maybe part of that is because I tend to stick with the same knife for long periods.
Earlier tonight I thought I’d hit the apex on my Endela SE, but it wouldn’t push cut paper. Out came the loupe. Back to the CBN rods tomorrow, I’m still not there in the scallops. The points are very sharp. Oh well. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Sonorum
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Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

#302

Post by Sonorum »

I recently bought a Salt 2 Wharncliffe in LC200n and I have to say that I was a bit disappointed at first. Coming from the Endela SE which had shallow serrations to the Salt which is way pointier ones was not satisfying. I have now sharpened down the tips which took quite a while with the regular dark sharpmaker rods and it is finally really good. Sucks to have to put in a lot of time to get it working good.
/ David
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Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

#303

Post by dsvirsky »

Guess it all depends on what you're using it for. I found the Salt 2 wharncliffe LC200N worked quite well for me, right out of the box, but I use it mostly for breaking down boxes and cutting up milk cartons (so they don't take up room in the trash).
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Wartstein
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Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

#304

Post by Wartstein »

Sonorum wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:56 am
I recently bought a Salt 2 Wharncliffe in LC200n and I have to say that I was a bit disappointed at first. Coming from the Endela SE which had shallow serrations to the Salt which is way pointier ones was not satisfying. I have now sharpened down the tips which took quite a while with the regular dark sharpmaker rods and it is finally really good. Sucks to have to put in a lot of time to get it working good.

Same here (though I generally love the little green Salt SE).
Hard to beat the particular Endela serrations, probably only the Caribbean is even better (from what I read and saw), and the Salt serrations are really more aggressive and pointier
...and I have yet to make them less pointy. How long did it take you? And did you use the brown rods on purpose or cause you don´t own CBN/diamond rods?
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

#305

Post by Wartstein »

dsvirsky wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:01 pm
Guess it all depends on what you're using it for. I found the Salt 2 wharncliffe LC200N worked quite well for me, right out of the box, but I use it mostly for breaking down boxes and cutting up milk cartons (so they don't take up room in the trash).

The Salt 2 SE is really good (I own the "regular" one, not the wharnie).

But did you ever try shallower serrations, like on the Endela SE? In my experience they work even better on stuff like cardboard, cause they don´t tend to snag, while the pointier can do so a bit.
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Sonorum
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Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

#306

Post by Sonorum »

Wartstein wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 3:38 am
Sonorum wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:56 am
I recently bought a Salt 2 Wharncliffe in LC200n and I have to say that I was a bit disappointed at first. Coming from the Endela SE which had shallow serrations to the Salt which is way pointier ones was not satisfying. I have now sharpened down the tips which took quite a while with the regular dark sharpmaker rods and it is finally really good. Sucks to have to put in a lot of time to get it working good.

Same here (though I generally love the little green Salt SE).
Hard to beat the particular Endela serrations, probably only the Caribbean is even better (from what I read and saw), and the Salt serrations are really more aggressive and pointier
...and I have yet to make them less pointy. How long did it take you? And did you use the brown rods on purpose or cause you don´t own CBN/diamond rods?
Yes I don't have the CBN rods. Maybe an hour? It wasn't a lot of work. Since I didn't reprofile it I didn't have to remove to much material. I held the rod in my left hand, felt the angle with the knife in my right hand and then just pulled it back an forth across all the serrations. I didn't take too long before you could see the points becoming rounder.
/ David
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Sonorum
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Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

#307

Post by Sonorum »

Wartstein wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 3:40 am
dsvirsky wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:01 pm
Guess it all depends on what you're using it for. I found the Salt 2 wharncliffe LC200N worked quite well for me, right out of the box, but I use it mostly for breaking down boxes and cutting up milk cartons (so they don't take up room in the trash).

The Salt 2 SE is really good (I own the "regular" one, not the wharnie).

But did you ever try shallower serrations, like on the Endela SE? In my experience they work even better on stuff like cardboard, cause they don´t tend to snag, while the pointier can do so a bit.
My Endela is still better with cardboard than the salt, less snaggy.
/ David
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Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

#308

Post by dsvirsky »

Wartstein wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 3:40 am


The Salt 2 SE is really good (I own the "regular" one, not the wharnie).

But did you ever try shallower serrations, like on the Endela SE? In my experience they work even better on stuff like cardboard, cause they don´t tend to snag, while the pointier can do so a bit.
Yes, I also own an Endela and I find it works well on cardboard, although I'd be hard pressed to say whether it's the blade shape or the shallower serrations that allow it to work well. The way I like to slice cardboard, if the knife isn't a wharncliffe, I want lots of belly. My favorite SE knife for cutting cardboard is the PM3 LW (I also prefer Golden serrations to the ones from Seki).
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Wartstein
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Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

#309

Post by Wartstein »

dsvirsky wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:57 am
Wartstein wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 3:40 am
...
Yes, I also own an Endela and I find it works well on cardboard, although I'd be hard pressed to say whether it's the blade shape or the shallower serrations that allow it to work well. The way I like to slice cardboard, if the knife isn't a wharncliffe, I want lots of belly. My favorite SE knife for cutting cardboard is the PM3 LW (I also prefer Golden serrations to the ones from Seki).
That´s interesting!
Could you elaborate how Golden serrations are different to the ones from Seki?

I had/have several serrated Seki knives, but till very recently none from Golden. Actually I bought the except same Golden knife you´re talking about like 6 weeks ago: A Para 3 LW SE, but I already sold it again (this was my plan from the start). Did not particularly focus on how its serrations differ from the Seki ones, so I can´t recall and tell...
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

#310

Post by dsvirsky »

Golden serrations are wider and taller; also tend to be ground closer to 15° than Seki serrations.

UKPK Salt top, Endela bottom. Both have been sharpened.

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defenestrate
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Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

#311

Post by defenestrate »

Just received my K390 SE Police. The serrations are a bit shallow (maybe to avoid any possible chippiness as K390 is very hard and only moderately tough, though still a fine knife steel). I'd like to know why, actually. She's a beaut, though - I think the longest serrated knife I own, unless maybe if you were to straighten out the Spyderhawk (I really miss those, will buy more than 1 or 2 next time).

A quick pic, shallow serrations, highly unlikely to snag or chip, and a fairly rare SE in a premium steel. I also ordered a Resilence in S35V and might even pick up a Tenacious in the same because SE;

Image

https://imgur.com/gallery/QXFltlJ
Last edited by defenestrate on Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

#312

Post by defenestrate »

Er... is imgur blocked? I didn't see that anywhere and I pasted the link in the last comment.

Added the link instead, should work.
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Woodpuppy
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Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

#313

Post by Woodpuppy »

defenestrate wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:44 pm
Er... is imgur blocked? I didn't see that anywhere and I pasted the link in the last comment.

Added the link instead, should work.

You just needed to get the share link, and since it’s an image file you have to include the extension:

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defenestrate
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Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

#314

Post by defenestrate »

Gotcha. I've used it but mostly on reddit and not for that long. I've otherwise used resources in a forum. I know I added a few pics to storage here about 10 years ago or so, but have only linked websites since.

Thanks!
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Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

#315

Post by Ramonade »

Why did I read this thread?
I am now sold on the idea that my next knife (Spyderco obviously) will be in SE configuration.
Now, it is the model that is gonna be important... Endela, Para 3 LW, another of my beloved Native 5s in a new steel, or something else entirely?

I would even be more enclined towards a tough steel, so i could use it on dining plates without worrying too much, the points would get dull but the scallops won't !
:respect In the collection :respect : Lots of different steels, in lots of different (and same) Spydercos.

Robin. Finally made an IG : ramo_knives

MNOSD member 004* aka Mr. N5s :face-clouds
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Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

#316

Post by cabfrank »

Although I don't own one yet, based on what I've read, I would probably get the Endela if it was going to be my first SE. If the Pacific Salt isn't too big for you, I would consider that one also.
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Sonorum
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Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

#317

Post by Sonorum »

Ramonade wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:00 pm
Why did I read this thread?
I am now sold on the idea that my next knife (Spyderco obviously) will be in SE configuration.
Now, it is the model that is gonna be important... Endela, Para 3 LW, another of my beloved Native 5s in a new steel, or something else entirely?

I would even be more enclined towards a tough steel, so i could use it on dining plates without worrying too much, the points would get dull but the scallops won't !
The Endela seems to be widely regarded as a very good fully SE knife that's ready to cut from the start. Can't go wrong with it!
/ David
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Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

#318

Post by Ramonade »

Sonorum wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:27 pm
Ramonade wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:00 pm
Why did I read this thread?
I am now sold on the idea that my next knife (Spyderco obviously) will be in SE configuration.
Now, it is the model that is gonna be important... Endela, Para 3 LW, another of my beloved Native 5s in a new steel, or something else entirely?

I would even be more enclined towards a tough steel, so i could use it on dining plates without worrying too much, the points would get dull but the scallops won't !
The Endela seems to be widely regarded as a very good fully SE knife that's ready to cut from the start. Can't go wrong with it!
Seems that way... And then I'll be able to go talk about how this name is weird with y'all !
As weird as it sound, I do not own any Delica/Endela/Endura and am pretty sur I am missing something considering how much of a staple knife each of 'em is.
:respect In the collection :respect : Lots of different steels, in lots of different (and same) Spydercos.

Robin. Finally made an IG : ramo_knives

MNOSD member 004* aka Mr. N5s :face-clouds
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Sonorum
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Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

#319

Post by Sonorum »

Ramonade wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:19 pm
Sonorum wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:27 pm
Ramonade wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:00 pm
Why did I read this thread?
I am now sold on the idea that my next knife (Spyderco obviously) will be in SE configuration.
Now, it is the model that is gonna be important... Endela, Para 3 LW, another of my beloved Native 5s in a new steel, or something else entirely?

I would even be more enclined towards a tough steel, so i could use it on dining plates without worrying too much, the points would get dull but the scallops won't !
The Endela seems to be widely regarded as a very good fully SE knife that's ready to cut from the start. Can't go wrong with it!
Seems that way... And then I'll be able to go talk about how this name is weird with y'all !
As weird as it sound, I do not own any Delica/Endela/Endura and am pretty sur I am missing something considering how much of a staple knife each of 'em is.
Its wonderfully average, I think it fits most hands very well. Do you have a sharpmaker? It is essential in the "spyder edge experience" :winking-tongue
/ David
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Ramonade
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Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

#320

Post by Ramonade »

Sonorum wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 2:55 am
Its wonderfully average, I think it fits most hands very well. Do you have a sharpmaker? It is essential in the "spyder edge experience" :winking-tongue
I do not ! I have tons of free hand stuff for sharpening, and a guided system. I think I'll invest in a Sharpmaker anyway just because of how classic it is. And to handle a spyder edge I guess I don't have much of a choice since I want good (not necessarily beautiful but ultra sharp) edges no matter what !
:respect In the collection :respect : Lots of different steels, in lots of different (and same) Spydercos.

Robin. Finally made an IG : ramo_knives

MNOSD member 004* aka Mr. N5s :face-clouds
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