SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

[Bill1170]

The two issues I anticipate with using CNC milling to form serrations are:

1) It is too slow compared with current methods.

2) Potential high tooling costs would add expense.

Rather than using end mills, I think hob-style cutters would be faster, freer cutting.

There’s also high speed wire EDM, which would work fine after heat treatment.

[R100]

Thanks for all the detailed discussion Evil D, I've been using SE more as time goes by but this has really inspired me.

A SE knife which should be excellent is the Salt 1 but mine has long snaggy teeth and I rarely use it.

Here's a comparison to my Pac Salt

I would like to modify it but I'm not sure how to go about that. Is it best to start by working carefully as though I was cutting into a DMT benchstone until the teeth are squared off? I could then maybe reestablish an edge by sharpening on a bench stone as if it were a plain edge. Once the newly shaped teeth were sharp on the bottom I suppose I could move back to the Sharpmaker as per normal for SE.

I'd love people's thoughts on this.

[40mm]

On my most recent copy of the Dragonfly Salt SE, the teeth don't seem to be as aggressive as some others that I've had in the past. Love it. Untitled by Six Pound Cat, on Flickr

[Evil D]

On my most recent copy of the Dragonfly Salt SE, the teeth don't seem to be as aggressive as some others that I've had in the past. Love it.

The Dfly Salt in general has always been one of my most favorite SE knives because it's most likely the thinnest behind the edge SE knife you can get from Spyderco and it has one of the highest and thinnest hollow grinds I've seen so it's a great combo all around. A lot of that has to do with it being thinner stock than the Salt, but it has a much higher grind too which always made me wonder why other Salt/Pacific models weren't ground that thin/high too.

[40mm]

Yessir I hear you Evil. Forgot to mention that I got this one used so there is a good chance that the previous owner worn the teeth down\rounded them out a bit through sharpening. This thing locks up rock solid, falls shut, is centered, and cuts through things like a champ. By far my favorite pocket knife I've ever had.

On my most recent copy of the Dragonfly Salt SE, the teeth don't seem to be as aggressive as some others that I've had in the past. Love it.

The Dfly Salt in general has always been one of my most favorite SE knives because it's most likely the thinnest behind the edge SE knife you can get from Spyderco and it has one of the highest and thinnest hollow grinds I've seen so it's a great combo all around. A lot of that has to do with it being thinner stock than the Salt, but it has a much higher grind too which always made me wonder why other Salt/Pacific models weren't ground that thin/high too.

[sal]

Hi R100,

Welcome to our forum.

sal

[tonijedi]

Thanks for all the detailed discussion Evil D, I've been using SE more as time goes by but this has really inspired me.

A SE knife which should be excellent is the Salt 1 but mine has long snaggy teeth and I rarely use it.


SE_comparison.jpg


I would like to modify it but I'm not sure how to go about that. Is it best to start by working carefully as though I was cutting into a DMT benchstone until the teeth are squared off? I could then maybe reestablish an edge by sharpening on a bench stone as if it were a plain edge. Once the newly shaped teeth were sharp on the bottom I suppose I could move back to the Sharpmaker as per normal for SE.

I'd love people's thoughts on this.

Hi R100,

I wouldn't do that. I'd simply use the diamond or CBN stones of the sharpmaker to speed up the process of sharpening. Normal sharpening, on the long run, will make those serrations rounder and less snaggy.
Unfortunately the Salt 1/2 has a shorter blade (less tall) than the Pacific and that leads to a bigger thickness behind the edge.
My Salt 2, after many sharpening sessions, is finally a joy to use.

[R100]

Thanks Tonijedi, I wondered if that was all too easy.

I have some CBN rods inbound with an order I placed for the new lc200n Pac Salt in SE. I guess it's just a matter of working slowly with them until I'm happy with the result.

I've never tried SE in FFG before and can't wait to get the new Pac Salt 2. I just hope the toxic green isn't too shocking in the flesh :eek:

[tonijedi]

Thanks Tonijedi, I wondered if that was all too easy.

I have some CBN rods inbound with an order I placed for the new lc200n Pac Salt in SE. I guess it's just a matter of working slowly with them until I'm happy with the result.

I've never tried SE in FFG before and can't wait to get the new Pac Salt 2. I just hope the toxic green isn't too shocking in the flesh :eek:

Keep light pressure on the stones so you don't damage them. It takes time, but it works.

[Evil D]

Thanks for all the detailed discussion Evil D, I've been using SE more as time goes by but this has really inspired me.

A SE knife which should be excellent is the Salt 1 but mine has long snaggy teeth and I rarely use it.


SE_comparison.jpg


I would like to modify it but I'm not sure how to go about that. Is it best to start by working carefully as though I was cutting into a DMT benchstone until the teeth are squared off? I could then maybe reestablish an edge by sharpening on a bench stone as if it were a plain edge. Once the newly shaped teeth were sharp on the bottom I suppose I could move back to the Sharpmaker as per normal for SE.

I'd love people's thoughts on this.

Hey sorry I missed this, it's been a wild week at work.

Pretty much as has been mentioned, just take it slow on the diamond or CBN rods and let the grit do the work. If you use too much pressure on those rods you WILL rip the particles out of the rods and ruin them. You will also need to rinse them periodically to clean the metal dust out of them so they cut well. It definitely does take some time, but for me it's totally worth the end result and you shouldn't need to do it very often. Also as mentioned, the Salt is a bit thicker than the knives I've posted in this thread, so it may even take a bit more work to blend them in than it did on a Caribbean for example.

[bearfacedkiller]

The Shaman arrived and I got the edge reprofiled pretty good. I am happy with it for my first try.

[Holland]

The Shaman arrived and I got the edge reprofiled pretty good. I am happy with it for my first try.

Looks awesome!

Does it slice paper without having to push cut now?

[Evil D]

Man that looks awesome. I really hope the Shaman gets SE Spy27.

[bearfacedkiller]

Thanks guys! I had some apprehension about sharpening it so aggressively but I wanted to sharpen it until it didn’t snag anymore. Snagging has always been my main issue. Maybe it is foolish to try to make a serrated edge perform like a plain edge or maybe I will find out that I like serrated edges after all. I bought this knife used for a very reasonable price so I just went all in.

It took about one hour but I admit to being pretty aggressive. I started on a 220 grit diamond bench stone. That flattened the top of the teeth and squared up the cutting edge of them a little like small chisels. From there I wrapped 200 grit sand paper around the corner of a sharpmaker rod and started with back and forth sharpening. Once the tips were rounded instead of square and the flats on top of the teeth were gone I switched to my well worn diamond rods for the final finish. From there I just deburred it and now it is shaving sharp.

I easily draw cuts paper without snagging now and I have used it a little bit and the cuts are certainly smooth. I’m going to carry this for a few weeks and see how it goes.

[JRinFL]

Thanks guys! I had some apprehension about sharpening it so aggressively but I wanted to sharpen it until it didn’t snag anymore. Snagging has always been my main issue. Maybe it is foolish to try to make a serrated edge perform like a plain edge or maybe I will find out that I like serrated edges after all. I bought this knife used for a very reasonable price so I just went all in.

It took about one hour but I admit to being pretty aggressive. I started on a 220 grit diamond bench stone. That flattened the top of the teeth and squared up the cutting edge of them a little like small chisels. From there I wrapped 200 grit sand paper around the corner of a sharpmaker rod and started with back and forth sharpening. Once the tips were rounded instead of square and the flats on top of the teeth were gone I switched to my well worn diamond rods for the final finish. From there I just deburred it and now it is shaving sharp.

I easily draw cuts paper without snagging now and I have used it a little bit and the cuts are certainly smooth. I’m going to carry this for a few weeks and see how it goes.

Thank you for the detailed and still easily followed directions. I'm going to give this a try.

[curlyhairedboy]

i wonder if a non-steering spyderedge could be made by alternating the tooth pattern on each side of the blade.

Right now, all of the scallops are on the same side, but if they alternated, the edge would look funky but theoretically would not steer...all while maintaining the same thin measurement behind the edge.

[Evil D]

i wonder if a non-steering spyderedge could be made by alternating the tooth pattern on each side of the blade.

Right now, all of the scallops are on the same side, but if they alternated, the edge would look funky but theoretically would not steer...all while maintaining the same thin measurement behind the edge.

I think the ultimate answer to this is giving the back side of the blade a slight convex grind from the factory, that way there's some kind of bevel or curve to the back of the blade to counter the steering feeling. To be honest this issue doesn't even register in my head anymore, maybe I've adjusted to it. I don't even think about it until someone mentions it here, and that's something because it was one of my biggest complaints in the beginning but I also think a big part of that has to do with hollow grinds too because my old Manix 2 used to steer too.

[James Y]

i wonder if a non-steering spyderedge could be made by alternating the tooth pattern on each side of the blade.

Right now, all of the scallops are on the same side, but if they alternated, the edge would look funky but theoretically would not steer...all while maintaining the same thin measurement behind the edge.

I wonder if doing that would have a negative effect on cutting efficiency. I’m betting that serrations are cut single-sided into knives the way they are for a reason that goes beyond just ease of manufacture and aesthetics.

Jim

[Evil D]

Finally got around to finishing up the reprofile job on my Rock Jumper. It's a thing of beauty. They didn't smooth out quite as much as I would have liked since they aren't ground quite as shallow as my Caribbean but it glides through phone book paper going over each serration without any snagging so it's a win.

I also have totally fallen in love with the Rock Jumper. Such a fantastic design.

I'm also quite happy with SE/VG10 at this point. I really regret not giving it more attention sooner. It takes a really great edge and SE is no different.


I love it when you've finally made it all the way through reprofiling the whole bevel and you can see consistent scratch patterns all the way to the edge (I recolor the bevel to make sure this happens).



I did however encounter some pretty nasty burrs. They weren't too horrible to get rid of but I haven't had burr issues with LC200N, though I have with H1. If you look close here you can see the burr reflecting light at the edge.


In the end it's quite sharp.

[Bill1170]

Finally got around to finishing up the reprofile job on my Rock Jumper. It's a thing of beauty. They didn't smooth out quite as much as I would have liked since they aren't ground quite as shallow as my Caribbean but it glides through phone book paper going over each serration without any snagging so it's a win.

I also have totally fallen in love with the Rock Jumper. Such a fantastic design.

I'm also quite happy with SE/VG10 at this point. I really regret not giving it more attention sooner. It takes a really great edge and SE is no different.


I love it when you've finally made it all the way through reprofiling the whole bevel and you can see consistent scratch patterns all the way to the edge (I recolor the bevel to make sure this happens).



I did however encounter some pretty nasty burrs. They weren't too horrible to get rid of but I haven't had burr issues with LC200N, though I have with H1. If you look close here you can see the burr reflecting light at the edge.


In the end it's quite sharp.

David, do you just deburr at a nearly flat angle on a SM rod? I’m inspired to round the points on my SE Caribbean because it still snags on paper. The serrations are ground at about 20 degrees on mine, which feels performant enough, given the chisel grind.