SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

[Surfingringo]

That was an amazing write up David. I read every word and that is one of the best written and most informative posts I have read in my years here. I have a lot of experience with serrated edges and my observations about what performs best mirror yours almost exactly. I have used a serrated pacific salt to do just about anything that a plain edge could do, including filleting hundreds of fish when I didn’t have a pe available. This post made me want to grab a SE and carry it exclusively for awhile...I think I will. Thank you for taking the time to create such a great post. I vote to make this one a sticky.

P.S. I think this has made me want a SE Waterway. Maybe I will create a poll about that and see if anyone is interested.

[Evil D]

I think you're pretty much spot on really, and I've never seen anyone say they prefer the deeper serrations/pointer teeth like I do. Even Sal himself says worn in/rounded off serrations are better. I'm the one just sharing my personal experience since it is so different. And of course I'm essentially ONLY cutting rope with my serrated knives. THICK rope. So my experience is very specific and anecdotal. But it seems to perform like a saw blade. Ever had to use a hack saw on wood in a pinch? It's not the right tool for the job, but boy, there's a big difference between a 24 tooth blade and 32 tooth blade. The 24 can walk through wood (not like a coping saw or bow saw of course) much faster than the 32 tooth blade due to the size of the teeth, while the 32 tooth blade does better with hardened steel. Not the the perfect analogy but I feel it illustrates my thoughts. I know I'm not the only one getting my SE knives extremely sharp, so I guess it's partially the sheer amount of force I put into the draw cuts (sawing, essentially) which causes all the fibers that the teeth catch to cut instantly, allowing me to cut the rope in fewer slices. I always cut rope quickly, partially for practice. If a towing line (or any line) under tension traps someone in the stern corner of the boat or God forbid gets wrapped around them or something (a million different things could happen), I want to be able to cut that line before someone loses a limb. So everything is focused on speed, from grabbing the knife to the last slice.

I think with some materials like rope you might actually want the snagging action, because there are so many fibers. Cutting a box or something more common is where most people (myself included) have complained about snagging and uneven cuts.

[Doc Dan]

This is timely and a bit funny. I have a SE Native 5 I have never liked. It is not a good slicer. But, I just bought a SE Dragonfly Salt specifically to see if this knife would live up to the SE hype. It is better than the Native by miles.

[Evil D]

This is timely and a bit funny. I have a SE Native 5 I have never liked. It is not a good slicer. But, I just bought a SE Dragonfly Salt specifically to see if this knife would live up to the SE hype. It is better than the Native by miles.

For whatever reason the Natives are ground thick. The Dragonfly Salt also has one of the highest hollow grinds that I've seen from Spyderco and it's a thinner than average blade so even in rigid material it doesn't bind up as much as a Native will.

I'm still hoping for a SE Chaparral, so long as they keep the blade grind just as thin.

[Pelagic]

I think you're pretty much spot on really, and I've never seen anyone say they prefer the deeper serrations/pointer teeth like I do. Even Sal himself says worn in/rounded off serrations are better. I'm the one just sharing my personal experience since it is so different. And of course I'm essentially ONLY cutting rope with my serrated knives. THICK rope. So my experience is very specific and anecdotal. But it seems to perform like a saw blade. Ever had to use a hack saw on wood in a pinch? It's not the right tool for the job, but boy, there's a big difference between a 24 tooth blade and 32 tooth blade. The 24 can walk through wood (not like a coping saw or bow saw of course) much faster than the 32 tooth blade due to the size of the teeth, while the 32 tooth blade does better with hardened steel. Not the the perfect analogy but I feel it illustrates my thoughts. I know I'm not the only one getting my SE knives extremely sharp, so I guess it's partially the sheer amount of force I put into the draw cuts (sawing, essentially) which causes all the fibers that the teeth catch to cut instantly, allowing me to cut the rope in fewer slices. I always cut rope quickly, partially for practice. If a towing line (or any line) under tension traps someone in the stern corner of the boat or God forbid gets wrapped around them or something (a million different things could happen), I want to be able to cut that line before someone loses a limb. So everything is focused on speed, from grabbing the knife to the last slice.

I think with some materials like rope you might actually want the snagging action, because there are so many fibers. Cutting a box or something more common is where most people (myself included) have complained about snagging and uneven cuts.

Yes I agree with that.

[JD Spydo]

This is timely and a bit funny. I have a SE Native 5 I have never liked. It is not a good slicer. But, I just bought a SE Dragonfly Salt specifically to see if this knife would live up to the SE hype. It is better than the Native by miles.

For whatever reason the Natives are ground thick. The Dragonfly Salt also has one of the highest hollow grinds that I've seen from Spyderco and it's a thinner than average blade so even in rigid material it doesn't bind up as much as a Native will.

I'm still hoping for a SE Chaparral, so long as they keep the blade grind just as thin.

Interesting that you bring up that Golden made SE Native model. The one that I have which is a 440V, SE model which I consider my "wrecking ball" knife for use in really brutal jobs where I'm willing to sacrifice the knife if things go bad. I've often wondered why I've had such great luck with my 440V Native over the years. I give some credit to that incredibly tough 440V ( S60V) blade steel>> which is a sharpening nightmare by the way.

I also consider the 440V SE NATIVE to be a Pitbull of a folder as well. Maybe blade thickness does play into the equation but it also seems like that the locking system on that model also helps it to be able to take such brutal punishment. But my point being is that I literally tried to destroy that knife on a job once or should I say that I was convinced that it wouldn't endure that job but yet it did still surprises me a lot. But there are a lot of attributes that make that SE Spyderco model the beast that it is.

[Evil D]

This is timely and a bit funny. I have a SE Native 5 I have never liked. It is not a good slicer. But, I just bought a SE Dragonfly Salt specifically to see if this knife would live up to the SE hype. It is better than the Native by miles.

For whatever reason the Natives are ground thick. The Dragonfly Salt also has one of the highest hollow grinds that I've seen from Spyderco and it's a thinner than average blade so even in rigid material it doesn't bind up as much as a Native will.

I'm still hoping for a SE Chaparral, so long as they keep the blade grind just as thin.

Interesting that you bring up that Golden made SE Native model. The one that I have which is a 440V, SE model which I consider my "wrecking ball" knife for use in really brutal jobs where I'm willing to sacrifice the knife if things go bad. I've often wondered why I've had such great luck with my 440V Native over the years. I give some credit to that incredibly tough 440V ( S60V) blade steel>> which is a sharpening nightmare by the way.

I also consider the 440V SE NATIVE to be a Pitbull of a folder as well. Maybe blade thickness does play into the equation but it also seems like that the locking system on that model also helps it to be able to take such brutal punishment. But my point being is that I literally tried to destroy that knife on a job once or should I say that I was convinced that it wouldn't endure that job but yet it did still surprises me a lot. But there are a lot of attributes that make that SE Spyderco model the beast that it is.

Thick grinds definitely help to make a tough knife. Again, I don't mean to say the Native is a crappy knife, it's all relative to what you compare it to. The Native 5 is a slicing beast compared to my ZT0303 but it's also a door stop compared to a Chaparral.

[elena86]

Great thread David. I am a huge fan of the spyderedge pattern myself. I would probably go with a SE Pac Salt or a SE Salt2 for the rest of my life and not feel the need for another blade. The secret is to keep them ultra sharp... easy peasy with the Sharpmaker. My next purchase will be a SE Caribbean... I am so eager to try that ffg blade in LC200N with teeth. I must add that my beloved SE wharnie Delica is a terrific riper ... it seems that VG10 performs better than I expected in that configuration. You should try one ... it will rock your spyderedged world :)

[prndltech]

This has got me wanting a SE d-fly salt. I don’t know why I don’t have one already... the question then becomes... regular blade shape or or Hawkbill? Hmmmm.....

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

This has got me wanting a SE d-fly salt. I don’t know why I don’t have one already... the question then becomes... regular blade shape or or Hawkbill? Hmmmm.....

I have the hawksbill it is like having a serrated talon coming out of your finger very sharp, lots of cutting power. Have been considering the regular one for a while now.

[Evil D]

Great thread David. I am a huge fan of the spyderedge pattern myself. I would probably go with a SE Pac Salt or a SE Salt2 for the rest of my life and not feel the need for another blade. The secret is to keep them ultra sharp... easy peasy with the Sharpmaker. My next purchase will be a SE Caribbean... I am so eager to try that ffg blade in LC200N with teeth. I must add that my beloved SE wharnie Delica is a terrific riper ... it seems that VG10 performs better than I expected in that configuration. You should try one ... it will rock your spyderedged world :)

My Stretch is VG10. It did burr a lot more than I expected and I initially had some flashbacks from sharpening my first Delica but I got it under control. I've had that knife for at least 7 years and haven't really used it as much as I should since it's only been the last couple years I really got good at sharpening serrations.

[Evil D]

This has got me wanting a SE d-fly salt. I don’t know why I don’t have one already... the question then becomes... regular blade shape or or Hawkbill? Hmmmm.....

Hawkbills are a whole different animal. I like to think of them as one giant serration scallop full of smaller serrations. Obviously there are some limitations for a blade this shape, you won't be chopping onions with it but if you find that you do a lot of draw cutting while holding material with your off hand, they are unmatched in draw cutting power. They're also my go to yard wrecking knife, that Spyderhawk has gone to war with me against these vines in my back yard for two seasons now and it's unstoppable. If you do any kind of gardening or harvesting they're the way to go, they basically grab onto vines and stems and pull through them. Everyone needs at least one good hawkbill in their collection.

[Evil D]

I just realized I made a similar "coming SE Jesus" thread almost exactly a year ago. I thought I'd quote this post here because it still surprises me. I wish more models were offered in both edge types again. I would be absolutely overjoyed if Taichung put the same pattern SE on the Sliverax. That's grail knife material for me.

It's funny, but back in the '80s when we introduced serrated edges and we were pretty much the only company making serrated knives. Most of our sales (80%) were serrated models. Then the competition started to make serrated models, that mostly didn't perform as well and in time, the serrated sales slowed.

I'm certainly biased, but I still think we make the best teeth and have the best ways to maintain them.

I just received a sample of a warnie serrated salt 2. (Jazzed). What a cutting machine!

sal

[fkmtb07]

Awesome writeup!

My SE Salt 2 is one of my most carried knives, but I do struggle with getting the last bit of straight edge near the tip (~1/2") sharp. Anyone have any tips?

[vivi]

Awesome writeup!

My SE Salt 2 is one of my most carried knives, but I do struggle with getting the last bit of straight edge near the tip (~1/2") sharp. Anyone have any tips?

Use the flats instead of the corners for the tip. I use the corners for the meat of the edge, then when I'm happy with it I do a few strokes on the flats along the PE portion at the tip.

[tonijedi]

Awesome writeup!

My SE Salt 2 is one of my most carried knives, but I do struggle with getting the last bit of straight edge near the tip (~1/2") sharp. Anyone have any tips?

Same with me. My Salt 2 is my most carried knife these days and although I can sharpen my PE Dragonfly and PE Aqua Salt (both H1) I can't get that chisel PE part of the Salt 2 sharp.
I try to do it with the flat stones of the sharpmaker, gone from diamonds to fine, tried 30 and 40 degrees, nothing seems to work. It's not dull like a butter knife, but it's nowhere near the PE H1 Dragonfly. If I were to judge PE H1 based on that Salt 2's tip I'd never buy a H1 knife in my life.

[Evil D]

Awesome writeup!

My SE Salt 2 is one of my most carried knives, but I do struggle with getting the last bit of straight edge near the tip (~1/2") sharp. Anyone have any tips?

I position my index finger just behind the end of the PE portion right before the first serration to block accidentally getting the serrations on the flat of the stone and then just sharpen it like anything else. Be careful and make sure you hold it straight up and down at 90 degrees.

[Jazz]

P.S. I think this has made me want a SE Waterway. Maybe I will create a poll about that and see if anyone is interested.

I was wondering why your folder is only in PE, bro. Seems like it would be a great serrated knife.

[vivi]

Awesome writeup!

My SE Salt 2 is one of my most carried knives, but I do struggle with getting the last bit of straight edge near the tip (~1/2") sharp. Anyone have any tips?

Same with me. My Salt 2 is my most carried knife these days and although I can sharpen my PE Dragonfly and PE Aqua Salt (both H1) I can't get that chisel PE part of the Salt 2 sharp.
I try to do it with the flat stones of the sharpmaker, gone from diamonds to fine, tried 30 and 40 degrees, nothing seems to work. It's not dull like a butter knife, but it's nowhere near the PE H1 Dragonfly. If I were to judge PE H1 based on that Salt 2's tip I'd never buy a H1 knife in my life.

Maybe I can shoot a video next time I touch up my Pacific Salt, might give you guys some ideas. I usually get that PE part sharp enough to pop arm hairs. Easiest part of the edge to test for shaving sharpness, haha.

[The Meat man]

Had a bunch of Amazon points, so I ordered a set of CBN Sharpmaker rods. I'm going to try reprofiling my Pacific Salt and hopefully revitalize it. It's been used hard, and suffered some edge damage.