Problem sharpening a Mannix 154CM

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CranstonSnord
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Problem sharpening a Mannix 154CM

#1

Post by CranstonSnord »

Hello everybody! First time poster here. I bought a used Mannix at a pawn shop that was in good condition, but was as dull as a butter knife. I only paid $40.00 for it so I thought I was getting a great deal. Now I am not so sure! I am no expert at sharpening knives, but have been using a Smith's pull through that has adjustable sharpening angles. I read that Spyderco does theirs from the factory at 30 degrees, but this sharpener will only go up to 24, so that it what I have it set at. I also have been using a Lansky Deluxe Controlled Angle set on it, which uses stones of various types. I have been toying with this all week, and while I have managed to get the knife sharper, it still does not even cut paper. I can feel it has more of an edge, but I think some of what I am feeling is burrs. It should not take that much effort to sharpen this knife. What am I doing wrong? Do any of you have any suggestions? Pics are included and that you for any information you can provide!

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attila
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Re: Problem sharpening a Mannix 154CM

#2

Post by attila »

Sorry, I hit the wrong button...
Last edited by attila on Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
Have: old S30V Native, HAP40 Endura, ZDP DF2, S110V Manix LW, Cru-wear Para 3, SE H1 DF2, S90V Native 5, K390 Urban, SE Pac Salt, P.I.T.S., XHP Manix LW, SB Caly 3, B70P, PMA11, K03, Kapara, REX 45 Military, 154CM Manix LW, Swick, AEB-L Urban, KC Cruwear Manix, M390 PM2, Mantra 2, CruCarta Shaman, M390 Manix, K390 Police 4, S90V Manix LW, Rex 45 Manix LW, 20CV Manix, Rex 45 Lil’Native, Shaman, C208GP, Cruwear Manix, Cruwear Manix, M4 Chief, Z-max!!!

Want: SPY27, K490, Swick 5
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TkoK83Spy
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Re: Problem sharpening a Mannix 154CM

#3

Post by TkoK83Spy »

Nice find! That's an older model. To start with, I wouldn't use of a pull through sharpener on a quality knife. Using the Lansky should help if that's your other option. I'm guessing you've been using too many different angles and not enough time at a particular angle. Sharpening is an adventure and you have to be patient. Investing in a Spyderco Sharpmaker wouldn't be a bad idea either!

Spyderco TYPICALLY sharpens up nicely at a 40 degree setting. Best way to check for your knife is to take a Sharpie to your edge bevel, color the entire bevel. Use your sharpener (not the pull through) and see where the sharpie is rubbing off the bevel. That should help aid you in the correct angle you need to hit the apex. Use the coarsest stone you have and progress through, but only once you can rough shave or cut paper on the coarsest grit you have, then continue to the next stone while keeping an eye on the apex and make sure you are continually hitting it. Check after every few passes.

Without getting super specific, that should help you in getting to where you need to be with what you have. I know when I was totally new to sharpening I was overcome with all sorts of options and suggestions, but really needed something simple to get me started. There are plenty of people here that are very experienced and I'm sure will help as well!
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TomAiello
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Re: Problem sharpening a Mannix 154CM

#4

Post by TomAiello »

I had really bade luck with my 154cm Manix. It seemed to form a burr almost instantly, and the burr just kept flopping from one side to another. That was quite a while back in my sharpening skill progression, but it was extremely frustrating. I had some success using another knife (I used a PM2) to "cut" the burr off the Manix blade. In the end I just got rid of it and bought an s30v Manix, which treated me _much_ better.

Are you using some kind of magnification to see the edge? That's how I figured out that I wasn't really removing the burr.
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Ankerson
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Re: Problem sharpening a Mannix 154CM

#5

Post by Ankerson »

Likely just needs to buy a Sharp Maker and use the brown stones. :)
JuPaul
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Re: Problem sharpening a Mannix 154CM

#6

Post by JuPaul »

I'm no expert sharpener, but it sounds like you're not actually apexing the edge, which means you're not quite sharpening all the way to the very edge of the blade, so not forming a burr. I second the sharpie trick. I have a KME (similar to a lansky guided system). If I want to try to match the existing angle on a knife I haven't sharpened yet, I generally start at the 20 degree setting for spyderco knives. Like Tkok83Spy said, color the entire bevel with the sharpie. When you start sharpening, if the stone removes the sharpie from the cutting edge of the bevel but not the higher area (shoulder), then you need to lower your angle. If the sharpie is gone from the shoulder of the bevel but not from the cutting edge, then you need to raise your angle. Just keep adjusting angles until you find the setting that removes all of the sharpie.

It certainly could be that the bevel on your knife is just uneven, in which case you won't find a setting that perfectly removes all the sharpie along the entire length of the bevel. So in that case I find the setting that removes the most and stick with it, or I go with 20 degrees and prepare for a little more effort. Evening out the bevel will take some time and effort, so go with a really coarse stone until you feel a burr along the entire cutting edge, then flip sides and do the same thing. Remove the burr, then you can move up to the next finest stone and repeat.

If you want a good explanation of burr formation, look up "the Burr Bird" on youtube. Great and simple explanation.

Btw: Welcome to the forum! And sorry if this is all stuff you already know!
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Evil D
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Re: Problem sharpening a Mannix 154CM

#7

Post by Evil D »

I've had the worst luck with this steel out of any that I've ever used, it is very prone to burr depending on how you're sharpening it. The lesson to be learned here is to use a very light touch and let the stones do the work, and don't deliberately make a burr. Use a strong light source and chech the edge for light reflection and then work on getting the edge so it no longer reflects light. My experience with this steel was also with a Lansky so I know exactly what you're dealing with.
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aaronkb
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Re: Problem sharpening a Mannix 154CM

#8

Post by aaronkb »

It’s strange to think that your sharpener only goes up to 24, which is definitely on the thin side... sorry if this is a stupid question, but since I don’t know much about you or your level of knowledge: what you read about spyderco sharpening to 30 degrees is the inclusive angle, meaning it’s actually 15 degrees on each side. Are you sure that the setting you’re looking at is 24 degrees inclusive (total) and not 24 degrees per side?
CranstonSnord
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Re: Problem sharpening a Mannix 154CM

#9

Post by CranstonSnord »

JuPaul wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:03 am
I'm no expert sharpener, but it sounds like you're not actually apexing the edge, which means you're not quite sharpening all the way to the very edge of the blade, so not forming a burr. I second the sharpie trick. I have a KME (similar to a lansky guided system). If I want to try to match the existing angle on a knife I haven't sharpened yet, I generally start at the 20 degree setting for spyderco knives. Like Tkok83Spy said, color the entire bevel with the sharpie. When you start sharpening, if the stone removes the sharpie from the cutting edge of the bevel but not the higher area (shoulder), then you need to lower your angle. If the sharpie is gone from the shoulder of the bevel but not from the cutting edge, then you need to raise your angle. Just keep adjusting angles until you find the setting that removes all of the sharpie.

It certainly could be that the bevel on your knife is just uneven, in which case you won't find a setting that perfectly removes all the sharpie along the entire length of the bevel. So in that case I find the setting that removes the most and stick with it, or I go with 20 degrees and prepare for a little more effort. Evening out the bevel will take some time and effort, so go with a really coarse stone until you feel a burr along the entire cutting edge, then flip sides and do the same thing. Remove the burr, then you can move up to the next finest stone and repeat.

If you want a good explanation of burr formation, look up "the Burr Bird" on youtube. Great and simple explanation.

Btw: Welcome to the forum! And sorry if this is all stuff you already know!
Thank you!! The Sharpie trick seems to be working. I was aware of it, but nobody explained it in a way where I fully understood it until now. Using the Lansky, and the medium, fine, and extra fine stones, I am making good progress on this knife. I have a few other knives where I am having the same problem and this trick will help. I actually really appreciate all of your all's help as this has been frustrating for me, but because of this, I have learned a little bit about sharpening a knife!! :D
JuPaul
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Re: Problem sharpening a Mannix 154CM

#10

Post by JuPaul »

CranstonSnord wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 3:14 pm
JuPaul wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:03 am
I'm no expert sharpener, but it sounds like you're not actually apexing the edge, which means you're not quite sharpening all the way to the very edge of the blade, so not forming a burr. I second the sharpie trick. I have a KME (similar to a lansky guided system). If I want to try to match the existing angle on a knife I haven't sharpened yet, I generally start at the 20 degree setting for spyderco knives. Like Tkok83Spy said, color the entire bevel with the sharpie. When you start sharpening, if the stone removes the sharpie from the cutting edge of the bevel but not the higher area (shoulder), then you need to lower your angle. If the sharpie is gone from the shoulder of the bevel but not from the cutting edge, then you need to raise your angle. Just keep adjusting angles until you find the setting that removes all of the sharpie.

It certainly could be that the bevel on your knife is just uneven, in which case you won't find a setting that perfectly removes all the sharpie along the entire length of the bevel. So in that case I find the setting that removes the most and stick with it, or I go with 20 degrees and prepare for a little more effort. Evening out the bevel will take some time and effort, so go with a really coarse stone until you feel a burr along the entire cutting edge, then flip sides and do the same thing. Remove the burr, then you can move up to the next finest stone and repeat.

If you want a good explanation of burr formation, look up "the Burr Bird" on youtube. Great and simple explanation.

Btw: Welcome to the forum! And sorry if this is all stuff you already know!
Thank you!! The Sharpie trick seems to be working. I was aware of it, but nobody explained it in a way where I fully understood it until now. Using the Lansky, and the medium, fine, and extra fine stones, I am making good progress on this knife. I have a few other knives where I am having the same problem and this trick will help. I actually really appreciate all of your all's help as this has been frustrating for me, but because of this, I have learned a little bit about sharpening a knife!! :D
Awesome! I still have a lot to learn about sharpening, too, but that sharpie trick has saved me a ton of frustration. Glad it's helping!
- Julia

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Pelagic
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Re: Problem sharpening a Mannix 154CM

#11

Post by Pelagic »

Sharpening can seem impossible if you're not hitting the apex. It's like trying to start a fire when you're not even throwing the match in the right spot. It's a fundamental mistake. The sharpie method works, but I've never used it. I would have learned faster if I had though.
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bdblue
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Re: Problem sharpening a Mannix 154CM

#12

Post by bdblue »

I have one of those, but with the tumbled finish blade. Mine is easy to sharpen with my DMT Aligner, and with a strop I can get it scary sharp.

Since you said the pull through only went to 24 degrees, is there a misunderstanding in terminology? The Spyderco 30 degrees, or 40 degrees as someone else suggested, is a total of 30 degrees or 40 degrees. This means an angle of 15 or 20 degrees per side. Is the 24 degrees 24 degrees per side or 12 degrees per side. I suspect it is 24 degrees per side.
CranstonSnord
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Re: Problem sharpening a Mannix 154CM

#13

Post by CranstonSnord »

I am not sure if my pull through angle settings are per side. I would guess that but would have to find my instructions. However, I have seemed to get the Lansky sharpening system figured out, and have made my old Manix razor sharp! I am sure somebody skilled at using conventional stones could do better, but I am more than happy with my results! I also used the Lansky to ressurect an old Buck 112 that I got at a pawn shop! Really like the Manix and may get a few more Spyderco knives!!
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Re: Problem sharpening a Mannix 154CM

#14

Post by Cambertree »

CranstonSnord wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:31 pm
I am not sure if my pull through angle settings are per side. I would guess that but would have to find my instructions. However, I have seemed to get the Lansky sharpening system figured out, and have made my old Manix razor sharp! I am sure somebody skilled at using conventional stones could do better, but I am more than happy with my results! I also used the Lansky to ressurect an old Buck 112 that I got at a pawn shop! Really like the Manix and may get a few more Spyderco knives!!
Good to hear, it's a satisfying feeling when you first get a razor sharp edge on a dull knife!

Nice work on that Buck too. Those pull through sharpeners generally aren't worth a pinch of snuff.

As far as maintaining your edge in future, you might find the 17 degree per side setting on the Lansky works well, and investing in a Sharpmaker will allow you to keep it razor sharp on the 20 dps setting.
JuPaul
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Re: Problem sharpening a Mannix 154CM

#15

Post by JuPaul »

CranstonSnord wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:31 pm
I am not sure if my pull through angle settings are per side. I would guess that but would have to find my instructions. However, I have seemed to get the Lansky sharpening system figured out, and have made my old Manix razor sharp! I am sure somebody skilled at using conventional stones could do better, but I am more than happy with my results! I also used the Lansky to ressurect an old Buck 112 that I got at a pawn shop! Really like the Manix and may get a few more Spyderco knives!!
It's so satisfying when you finally figure out how to get that razor edge! Nice job! And don't worry, if you hang out on this forum enough, you will definitely end up with a few more spydercos...or a whole lot more. ;) :D
- Julia

"Be excellent to each other." - Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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