How low do you go?

[Pelagic]

Yep, too bad DMT doesn't make a XXC bench stone. Just the little ones. I'll be getting an Atoma 140 one day I'm sure.

[ekastanis]

Yep, too bad DMT doesn't make a XXC bench stone.

They do, but only the 8" continuous surface (Dia-Sharp) type, the model number is D8XX.

[Pelagic]

Yep, too bad DMT doesn't make a XXC bench stone.

They do, but only the 8" continuous surface (Dia-Sharp) type, the model number is D8XX.

Thanks, I didn't know.

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

After further research it looks like Atoma is the way to go. I have also learned you have to be careful when purchasing Atoma as their are allot of counterfeit Atoma Stones. You also have to be careful not to make a mistake and just purchase the replacement Diamond plate.

One of the things that tipped my scales toward Atoma is the widespread reports of errant raised diamonds with the the DMT stones and the last thing I want to do is scratch up one of my Spyderco's for the sake of a few dollars. Then angle guides should be in from Amazon today and I will give them a try with my Cruwear Delica I just re-profiled. I plan to use my large Spyderco Bench Stone first using the Brown medium stone and then the white fine stone to see what I get.

Carrying that Delica today and getting the feel for it's current level of sharpness compared to tonight. Pretty sure the angle guides are going to be a big help learning to freehand.

Oh and on another note: I just learned Spyderco makes a double stuff with CBN on one side and the white fine stone on the other. Does anyone have experience with that and if so how does it compare to either DMT or Atoma for re-profiling tasks requiring hogging off good amounts of steel to get down into lower profiles?

[vivi]

Double stuffs are a little undersized for serious reprofiling. If you owned one I could see trying it out, but it's not something I'd buy specifically for the job. It's meant more as a field sharpener.

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

Double stuffs are a little undersized for serious reprofiling. If you owned one I could see trying it out, but it's not something I'd buy specifically for the job. It's meant more as a field sharpener.

Good point for some reason I thought it was larger, must have been the picture.

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

The wedges came in and they are training wheels for free hand sharpening and might I add are only perfect!

Just put 20 swipes per side on my Cruwear Delica at 15 degrees using the Spyderco 8 inch brown stone followed by 10 swipes alternating per side to clear the bur and this cuts much better than with the .6 Micron Polish I had on it from the Wicked Edge Pro.

Hard to believe how steep 15 degrees really is until I WEDGED IT.

Will be ordering a second set so I can keep one on either end of the stone.

Even if I graduate beyond training wheels these still set a great reference point for different angles.

[Cambertree]

After further research it looks like Atoma is the way to go. I have also learned you have to be careful when purchasing Atoma as their are allot of counterfeit Atoma Stones. You also have to be careful not to make a mistake and just purchase the replacement Diamond plate.

One of the things that tipped my scales toward Atoma is the widespread reports of errant raised diamonds with the the DMT stones and the last thing I want to do is scratch up one of my Spyderco's for the sake of a few dollars. Then angle guides should be in from Amazon today and I will give them a try with my Cruwear Delica I just re-profiled. I plan to use my large Spyderco Bench Stone first using the Brown medium stone and then the white fine stone to see what I get.

Carrying that Delica today and getting the feel for it's current level of sharpness compared to tonight. Pretty sure the angle guides are going to be a big help learning to freehand.

Oh and on another note: I just learned Spyderco makes a double stuff with CBN on one side and the white fine stone on the other. Does anyone have experience with that and if so how does it compare to either DMT or Atoma for re-profiling tasks requiring hogging off good amounts of steel to get down into lower profiles?

Yeah, I have the Doublestuff 2, and second what Vivi said. I have used it Michael Christy style, as a handheld stone for grinding back edge bevels, but at 400 mesh, it's not really the ideal tool for removing a good amount of steel. One thing to mention about it is the CBN side needs to be used with a very light touch. It's a great tool for field sharpening, and sharpening other peoples dull knives away from home.

The Atomas have a much more consistent grit size than the DMTs. On thescienceofsharp blog, the author takes scanning electron microscope images of different diamond plates and abrasive particles. He found that the DMT plates on average had a random diamond particle which was about 10x the advertised grit size for every square millimetre of their surface area.

(Edit: the blog post says ‘millimetre’ but I think that is an error and the writer meant ‘every square centimetre’.)

https://scienceofsharp.com/2015/09/28/d ... in-part-2/

Plates will eventually break in of course, but that's one of the reasons I went with the full Atoma set.

Also be aware that the Atomas are arranged in little raised kind of polka dot piles of abrasive, whereas the DMTs are distributed like a surface sprinkling of particles on and in the nickel substrate binder.

This is why the Atomas are especially good at 'hogging off' material. They cut very fast, and leave a very consistent scratch pattern, but in terms of leaving a crisp, sharp apex, the DMTs may be better.

I just use the Atomas for thinning out knives, and stop just before the new bevel reaches the apex. Then I clean up the bevel with the Venev bonded diamond stones, and apex with the Sharpmaker.

The first sharpening takes the longest. After that, it's usually less than a minute to restore a razor keen apex with just the Sharpmaker.

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

Hey Cambertree thanks for the great link wow that was one heck of a revealing bit of information on the DMT diamond plates! I guess they are just fine for their primary use of lapping stones. There is no way I would buy one for sharpening knives.

Cambertree Wrote "I have used it Michael Christy style, as a handheld stone for grinding back edge bevels"

Do you have a link on this? I would love to learn how to do this. Is this a process where you remove the step that is created in the blade where the angle meets the flats?

I do have a bit of an update on the wedgek training wheels :) Decided to rubberband it onto my Spyderco Double stuff using the 15 degree wedge and was able to sharpen a Victorinox Techtool 34 using the brown side of the double stuff followed by the white side of the double stuff and to be honest this combination is a real winner.

In the past I have used my Spyderco Sharpmaker to try to sharpen SAK blades but have never gotten them as sharp as with the Spyderco double stuff using these wedges to find the angle. The brown side of the double stuff was more than capable of re-profiling this soft metal down to 15 degrees with ease and the white side got it scalpel sharp.

In my opinion Spyderco should make some Spyderco Spydie-Wedges to add to their bench stones, this really works well with Novice Free Hand Sharpeners like myself.

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

About a year back or so I bought a Hapstone 7 with Vanieve Diamonds. I used the Wicked Edge Pro 3 100 Grit stones with the Hapstone rod adapter as they were far more aggressive than the Vanev Bonded diamond water stones.

This has been a long, long term project beating a S90V Bento Box Shop Spyderco Military down to 10 degrees per side and thinning it out behind the blade.

Looks more like a scandi grind, problem is I wasted allot of time trying to get into where the blade stops and the WEP stones have plastic that gets in the way. Solved that by shaving them down.

Just this week decided to do another Military in CTS-204P only to discover that S90V steel wiped out my 100 Grit paddle.


So anyway started looking into free handing and wow this thread had some great replies that sent me down the rabbit hole of sharpening and how diamonds are utilized.

From this I looked into DMT, Atoma, and Wicked Edge and Vanev Inbeds the diamonds in a heated mold.

Wicked edge uses Electro Plating.

DMT uses Electro plating

These two I know well and fresh WEP Stones are also likely to leave deep scratches.

I tried using the Vanev In 100 Grit but they were no where near as aggressive as the WEP100 grit which was already broken in on S30V and S110V Spyderco’s.

So it was very strange to me to see so much praise for Vanev from the likes of Michael Christy a truly respected sharpener.

I also learned why Big Brown Bear said WEP is behind the times with their Diamond tech IE: Electro Plating.

From a Michael Christy video shared on their site I learned you can use a Nogira stone to clean the Vanev Diamond stones as they are prone to losing which I did not know and also to level them without the carbide powder kit and a plate of glass.

I also learned Vanev is more aggressive than Atoma. After learning this I went and looked at the bundle I purchased and did not use from Gritomatic.

So what I have done is order a Nogira stone 8000grit. Once it arrives I intend to work with these Vanev stones both in the Hapstone 7 and free hand to see what all the fuss is about.

In the past they left me very unimpressed by comparison with the WEP stones which were far more efficient and aggressive to use.

Then on the science of sharp someone posted that the Wicked Edge Pro Stones we’re superior and I thought you know what this is the impression I got also.

Oh well willing to be wrong especially since this experiment will only cost $14.00 as I already have the stones etc just need a good cleaning leveling stone for the Vanev to determine if loading was the issue all along with S90V.

After that though if I find them to be less aggressive than the WEP 100 Grit for husking off steel I will order the WEP stones to replace my worn ones.

This has been a bit of a long meandering post and will conclude it by saying I wonder if these reviewers ever used the Wicked Edge Pro Stones? They may very well not know what they are missing.

I get it that buying into Wicked Edge is like being sucked into one of the tech cultures walled gardens some go Apple, Some go Google and all are effected by Microsoft.

But let’s cut to the chase with diamonds

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

Quick update got home from work and surprise the Nogira Stone has arrived!

[The Meat man]

Interesting thoughts Does. I recently bought two DMT Dia-sharp plates: extra coarse and fine. They're nice and big (8"×3") and offer a lot of surface area for larger blades like a Police or Military.

[ArnAnders89]

I take both my Spydercos to 17 degrees off the flat grind. Since I use my knife for serious work, I'm cognizant of the diminished strength of steeper angles. But even more important, a shallower angle diminishes the aesthetic appeal of an otherwise pretty knife. For me, it makes no sense to go steeper.

The more obtuse edges do look better, but the thinned out ones are surprisingly tough.

Here's a Manix XL in "chippy" S30V



Here's that Manix chopping, batoning, cutting and stabbing with no perceptible reduction in sharpness:

https://youtu.be/hl3n-BtLoaI

Now I'm not trying to say my edges would work better for you, just trying to show that thinned out edges can still hold up to some rougher use.

There is a difference between the freehand edges we like and the fixed angle edges others use.

Freehand will create a convex beefing up the edge angle at the apex.
15dps on a fixed angle system will have less meat down at the apex.

So it's the same angle at the shoulder but not the same Geometry at the edge.

So folks will have different experiences.

So this would be a good reason to learn to freehand I guess right?

[Cambertree]

There’s many reasons, sure.

In my opinion putting some effort into learning how to sharpen competently will increase your enjoyment of all your knives. They will be more effective in use, they will be customised to your exact needs and preferences, and in time, they will also be more satisfying aesthetically.

You will also be able to apply the skill to sharpening other tools which may not lend themselves to being sharpened effectively with a guided system.