S30v

[spyderg]

A few have commented “yet another S30v thread” or something to that effect. But really all those other threads were actually on something else and got hijacked and turned into S30v arguments. This is a dedicated thread on the subject and I’m glad it turned back to the steels rather than getting too far off topic.

In my experience, most makers seem to do a good job with its heat treat, I’m guessing it’s an easy one to work with in that regard adding to its desirability as a widely used steel.
It’s fairly easy to sharpen as well making a good choice for novices and experienced knife owners.

For my edc uses S30v makes for a great steel but I like something tougher for yard work, renovation projects, etc. If I was buying one of the pricey collaborations, I’d want something different as well.

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

Thanks for all the sharpening comments. I only have one blade in S30V, the HH UKPK limited edition. Currently it's unsharpened, just in ex-factory form. It's a nice piece so I want to start off with at least roughly the right edge form.

Yeah Thanks guys I always learn something new and it is great to see how the old hands talk to us about how they have improved their techniques over time.

[James Y]

Even though I'm fine with S30V, I'm still wondering why Spyderco chose to go with it instead of S35VN. Since S35VN is supposedly virtually the same, except for having a bit more toughness and being easier to work/machine. I would have thought S35VN would have made a better base steel for the Golden models. Unless there is more S30V manufactured and available than S35VN.

Jim

[ladybug93]

i’ve never taken issue with s30v except when it sits in an overpriced knife. i won’t get into that here. my only real beef with s30v is that i think it should be replaced with lc200n for even better corrosion resistance and similar performance in the other areas that people care about. maybe that level of corrosion resistance isn’t necessary for everyone, but it can’t hurt to have it on an edc blade.

[Pelagic]

An official move to LC200N would be a game changer. I believe that in time it would be highly beneficial to the company. I have a feeling that people are more likely to remember a brand of knives that is rust-proof as opposed to a specific series of knives from a particular company. Word of mouth is big for business in the long run. I can see people telling someone "You want stainless? Get a spyderco!" before saying "Want stainless? Get a salt series knife by spyderco". It's just easier to remember. Your average knife user will not notice small or even moderate differences in edge retention or toughness, but they certainly WILL notice whether something rusts or not. And to a lesser extent, they will notice sharpenability as well, especially since s30v is more difficult to sharpen than virtually all budget steels. I haven't used my Shaman much at work, but I am already seeing rust on the spyderco symbol and a few other spots on the blade. It happens quickly.

[Sumdumguy]

An official move to LC200N would be a game changer. I believe that in time it would be highly beneficial to the company. I have a feeling that people are more likely to remember a brand of knives that is rust-proof as opposed to a specific series of knives from a particular company. Word of mouth is big for business in the long run. I can see people telling someone "You want stainless? Get a spyderco!" before saying "Want stainless? Get a salt series knife by spyderco". It's just easier to remember. Your average knife user will not notice small or even moderate differences in edge retention or toughness, but they certainly WILL notice whether something rusts or not. And to a lesser extent, they will notice sharpenability as well, especially since s30v is more difficult to sharpen than virtually all budget steels. I haven't used my Shaman much at work, but I am already seeing rust on the spyderco symbol and a few other spots on the blade. It happens quickly.

I would like to echo this.

LC200N becoming the "base" steel would be fantastic! Requiring less than the most basic care/maintenance and having a near perfect balance of performance attributes make this steel hard to argue with.

I have been using my Caribbean relentlessly since it came out and it has suffered almost no damage. The one incident I had with edge damage was after it violetly glanced across a large toolbox(don't ask) there was a tiny bit of rolled edge. The roll was less than 1/4" and was fixed in seconds on a kitchen honing steel.
As far as maintenance, it has seen nothing more than water and Sharpmaker.

Again, GAME CHANGER!

[boing]

Your average knife user will not notice small or even moderate differences in edge retention or toughness, but they certainly WILL notice whether something rusts or not.

I think most would agree, but I don’t think LC200N would differentiate Spyderco from other brands. Your average knife user is already getting all the stainlessness they need from other makers using more common steels. Moving away from S30V to something more stain resistant would just make Spyderco “even” with the competition, in the eyes of the average user. That’s assuming that Spyderco has a reputation among the masses for being rust-prone due to it’s use of S30V, in the first place. I don’t really know if it does or not?

[vivi]

An official move to LC200N would be a game changer. I believe that in time it would be highly beneficial to the company. I have a feeling that people are more likely to remember a brand of knives that is rust-proof as opposed to a specific series of knives from a particular company. Word of mouth is big for business in the long run. I can see people telling someone "You want stainless? Get a spyderco!" before saying "Want stainless? Get a salt series knife by spyderco". It's just easier to remember. Your average knife user will not notice small or even moderate differences in edge retention or toughness, but they certainly WILL notice whether something rusts or not. And to a lesser extent, they will notice sharpenability as well, especially since s30v is more difficult to sharpen than virtually all budget steels. I haven't used my Shaman much at work, but I am already seeing rust on the spyderco symbol and a few other spots on the blade. It happens quickly.

Have you ever tried DLC S30V at work?

[Pelagic]

An official move to LC200N would be a game changer. I believe that in time it would be highly beneficial to the company. I have a feeling that people are more likely to remember a brand of knives that is rust-proof as opposed to a specific series of knives from a particular company. Word of mouth is big for business in the long run. I can see people telling someone "You want stainless? Get a spyderco!" before saying "Want stainless? Get a salt series knife by spyderco". It's just easier to remember. Your average knife user will not notice small or even moderate differences in edge retention or toughness, but they certainly WILL notice whether something rusts or not. And to a lesser extent, they will notice sharpenability as well, especially since s30v is more difficult to sharpen than virtually all budget steels. I haven't used my Shaman much at work, but I am already seeing rust on the spyderco symbol and a few other spots on the blade. It happens quickly.

Have you ever tried DLC S30V at work?

Unfortunately, no. I didn't get a chance to put it to the test and currently don't have any DLC blades by spyderco. I just know Cold Steel's is absolutely impervious to rust. I really need to get a DLC blade (are you listening, St Nick's?) and put it through the paces. But unfortunately DLC isn't as popular as it should be imo, and I still think an official shift to LC200N would be a good move for spyderco.

[Wartstein]

Just a quick real world account on S30V (though not on Spydercos...) from a non-steel-expert, but knife-user:

The most extensive "hard use" experience I have with S30V comes from my White River Backpacker (very small fixed blade, like a large neck-knife (coming NOW in S35VN))

This thing has quite a specific role: I carry it especially on multi day (winter-) light weight mountaineering, and it´s mostly for batoning smaller-in-diameter wood and branches (often rather moisty on the outside) to start fires in the very primitive stoves the mountain shelters have (like "Youkon stoves").
So I literally beat a lot on that blade, and have to say: Really good edge holding, an no chipping at all (though I have to say: That knife does not slice as well as my Spydercos, even when really sharp, so I assume it must have a rather thick and robust gemoetry in the first place / be thick behind the edge. Never measured that though)

[5-by-5]

We're the 1% who even care about steel. If you put 100 first responders in a room only 60% will even have dedicated EDC. 80 to 90% of those will be carrying S&W and Harly Davidson knives. That's what is sold in tactical and uniform catalogs. Of the remaining, 8 to 9% will have a traditional their grandfather or dad liked.

[wrdwrght]

An official move to LC200N would be a game changer. I believe that in time it would be highly beneficial to the company. I have a feeling that people are more likely to remember a brand of knives that is rust-proof as opposed to a specific series of knives from a particular company. Word of mouth is big for business in the long run. I can see people telling someone "You want stainless? Get a spyderco!" before saying "Want stainless? Get a salt series knife by spyderco". It's just easier to remember. Your average knife user will not notice small or even moderate differences in edge retention or toughness, but they certainly WILL notice whether something rusts or not. And to a lesser extent, they will notice sharpenability as well, especially since s30v is more difficult to sharpen than virtually all budget steels. I haven't used my Shaman much at work, but I am already seeing rust on the spyderco symbol and a few other spots on the blade. It happens quickly.

I would like to echo this.

LC200N becoming the "base" steel would be fantastic! Requiring less than the most basic care/maintenance and having a near perfect balance of performance attributes make this steel hard to argue with.

I have been using my Caribbean relentlessly since it came out and it has suffered almost no damage. The one incident I had with edge damage was after it violetly glanced across a large toolbox(don't ask) there was a tiny bit of rolled edge. The roll was less than 1/4" and was fixed in seconds on a kitchen honing steel.
As far as maintenance, it has seen nothing more than water and Sharpmaker.

Again, GAME CHANGER!

For clarity’s sake, is the proposal that LC200N replace just S30V, or S30V and VG10, VG10 being as much Spyderco’s base steel as S30V?

[Pelagic]

It would probably be more complicated to get LC200N to more than one manufacturing facility. I figured it would just be in Golden (all hypothetical obviously).

[Wartstein]

Double post, sorry

[Wartstein]

For clarity’s sake, is the proposal that LC200N replace just S30V, or S30V and VG10, VG10 being as much Spyderco’s base steel as S30V?

I´d hate to see VG10 go, much more so than S30V.

But then, I never tried LC200N. Maybe it´s so good that I could live without VG10?? (Which is absloutely rustproof enough in my use, so it´s(=LC200Ns) even better corrosion resistance is nothing that I need in LC200N)

[TomAiello]

I don't think LC200N should replace s30v. The base line steel needs to strike a good balance between edge retention, stain resistance, toughness and _cost_. And s30v is doing that nicely. I could see XHP or s35vn in that role, but I don't really see an "upgrade" being worth the increased cost.

The great thing about having a good baseline steel (and I'd put VG-10, s30v and n690--the "baseline" spyderco steels from various places--all in this category) is that it gives a good consumer level model for the non-steel junky, and gives lots of rooms for sprints and exclusives for the knife nuts who populate this forum.

In fact, this thread is making me want to go EDC s30v for a while (which I haven't done in years now).

Last point: For me, s30v was a _huge_ upgrade in my (then) EDC, a Manix 2 in 154cm.

Long live s30v! (and vg-10, and n690)

[Pelagic]

I don't think s30v is striking a good balance in regard to cost. VG-10 holds that title. That's a small part of what this thread is about. There's a lot of people that would rather spend $200 and get exactly what they want versus spend $170 for something they kinda like.

[TomAiello]

I don't think s30v is striking a good balance in regard to cost. VG-10 holds that title.

If we're looking for a good cost balance, I bet the market would rather see BD1N as the baseline steel (for reduced cost). But I think the "knife guy" segment would definitely not like that at all.

Having things like s110v and Maxamet in the line up give really good options for the knife people like us. I'm totally in favor of adding LC200N to that menu, with things like the Manix, Native, PM2, PM3, etc (the ones that are presently available in s30v, s110v and Maxamet) adding an LC200N Salt option to their roster. You could also add a "budget" version (with BD1N), like the Manix LW has, and get a really full set of options. At some point, though, Spyderco has to make business decisions about how big to make the option set they produce for each product line.

[Pelagic]

I don't think s30v is striking a good balance in regard to cost. VG-10 holds that title.

If we're looking for a good cost balance, I bet the market would rather see BD1N as the baseline steel (for reduced cost). But I think the "knife guy" segment would definitely not like that at all.

Having things like s110v and Maxamet in the line up give really good options for the knife people like us. I'm totally in favor of adding LC200N to that menu, with things like the Manix, Native, PM2, PM3, etc (the ones that are presently available in s30v, s110v and Maxamet) adding an LC200N Salt option to their roster. You could also add a "budget" version (with BD1N), like the Manix LW has, and get a really full set of options. At some point, though, Spyderco has to make business decisions about how big to make the option set they produce for each product line.

But do you deny that having a (generally) rust-proof company is good for business? The whole point is the average knife user. And when you buy in bulk, the price goes down. Still, as it is, a Pac Salt in H1 goes for $85. How much would a LC200N version be? Not unattainable, I guarantee you, for someone at least halfway into knives.

[aesmith]

Does the public in general worry about whether a given brand is more rust resistant than another? I would expect a lot just expect anything called "stainless" to be rust resistant.