Spyderco Supergold, Superblue ? VG10

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
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Wartstein
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Re: Spyderco Supergold, Superblue ? VG10

#21

Post by Wartstein »

bearfacedkiller wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:37 am
.... Super Gold is a powdered stainless steel enriched with vanadium. It is also called R2. It should fall somewhere between XHP and S30V in performance....

I am not a steel expert by ANY means, but happen to have a bit experience with both XHP and S30V: Is there really much space between those two performance-wise? For me (again, only very basic knowledge/ skills when it comes to steels and sharpening) they feel very similar...
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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bearfacedkiller
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Re: Spyderco Supergold, Superblue ? VG10

#22

Post by bearfacedkiller »

Wartstein wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:07 pm
bearfacedkiller wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:37 am
.... Super Gold is a powdered stainless steel enriched with vanadium. It is also called R2. It should fall somewhere between XHP and S30V in performance....

I am not a steel expert by ANY means, but happen to have a bit experience with both XHP and S30V: Is there really much space between those two performance-wise? For me (again, only very basic knowledge/ skills when it comes to steels and sharpening) they feel very similar...
Nope, they are quite similar. If you look at their compositions Super Gold falls right in between them though.
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?
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Wartstein
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Re: Spyderco Supergold, Superblue ? VG10

#23

Post by Wartstein »

bearfacedkiller wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:29 pm
Wartstein wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:07 pm
bearfacedkiller wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:37 am
.... Super Gold is a powdered stainless steel enriched with vanadium. It is also called R2. It should fall somewhere between XHP and S30V in performance....

I am not a steel expert by ANY means, but happen to have a bit experience with both XHP and S30V: Is there really much space between those two performance-wise? For me (again, only very basic knowledge/ skills when it comes to steels and sharpening) they feel very similar...
Nope, they are quite similar. If you look at their compositions Super Gold falls right in between them though.
Ok, thanks! I just asked cause you said "in performance". Steel compositions is something I know very little about tbh.
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Cambertree
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Re: Spyderco Supergold, Superblue ? VG10

#24

Post by Cambertree »

There’s also a Hitachi Yellow Steel series which you don’t hear of that much outside Japan. It’s used for more mid range cutlery and basic agricultural edged tools. It looks similar in composition to 1075/1084/1095 etc.

The White series is ‘cleaner’.

White No. 2 seems to be the standard quality carbon cutlery steel in Japan, with White No. 1 being used for high end applications.

Here’s a pic I took of some steel bar stock at a bladesmith’s forge in Sakai:

Image

You can see they use coloured paint on the end of the billets these days, instead of paper to indicate the grade.

Interestingly, when I had an opportunity to ask the kamisori master, Mr. Iwasaki in Sanjo, what kind of steel he uses for his straight razors, he said he actually favours one of the European White Steel No. 1 analogues made with Swedish iron ore, rather than the local Japanese product.

Might have been 26C3 or 125SC. His father was a metallurgist too, so no doubt he had some sound reasoning for that preference.

To the OP, you'll also see the White and Blue Paper steels referred to as Shirogami and Aogami - literally the same thing in Japanese.

Sal's mentioned before that one of the design applications for VG10 was for grafting tools in the horticulture industry.

One of the other original design parameters of Takefu's VG10 was to create a steel which could be used for sujihiki and yanagiba knives in commercial fish and seafood processing settings like the vast Tsukiji market in Tokyo. The steel needed to deliver similar or better performance characteristics to carbon steel, with the added benefit of stainless corrosion resistance.

It's worth remembering that despite many Western steels not being designed specifically for cutley, most of the Japanese steels mentioned by the OP are cutlery specific steels. I'm not sure about Super Gold/SG2/3G, but the White Steels, Blue Steels, VG10, and ZDP189 were all designed for high performance knives and other edged tools.
Last edited by Cambertree on Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:49 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Spyderco Supergold, Superblue ? VG10

#25

Post by Cambertree »

The best grade of cladding steel - essentially a mild steel - used by traditional Japanese bladesmiths also has a similar 'high purity', relative to other mild steels.

It's called Gokunantetsu. I remember being told that the level of 'impurity' - or undesirable elements in the steel is about 10 times less than other relative steels.
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Re: Spyderco Supergold, Superblue ? VG10

#26

Post by Doeswhateveraspidercan »

Thanks for all the great replies special appreciation to BBB and Cambertree. Respectful nod of thanks to everyone else as well.
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Re: Spyderco Supergold, Superblue ? VG10

#27

Post by Albatross »

Isn't V-toku2 white #2, or was it #3? Could have sworn it's a lower grade white steel.
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Re: Spyderco Supergold, Superblue ? VG10

#28

Post by p_atrick »

I thought that when people speak of white steel, they are referring to a type of steel from Hitachi. Is that true? That's not to say that V-Toku2 (which is from Takefu) doesn't start with a steel with the same composition as Hitachi white and then add alloying elements.
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Re: Spyderco Supergold, Superblue ? VG10

#29

Post by Deadboxhero »

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Re: Spyderco Supergold, Superblue ? VG10

#30

Post by bearfacedkiller »

Albatross wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:05 pm
Isn't V-toku2 white #2, or was it #3? Could have sworn it's a lower grade white steel.
The white, yellow and blue steels are made by hitachi. V-Toku2 is made by Takefu.

V-Toku2 looks like Blue #2 except that it is made with Swedish iron ore. The white steels lack tungsten and chromium and these two both have a similar dash of each.
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?
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Re: Spyderco Supergold, Superblue ? VG10

#31

Post by Albatross »

bearfacedkiller wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:21 pm
Albatross wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:05 pm
Isn't V-toku2 white #2, or was it #3? Could have sworn it's a lower grade white steel.
The white, yellow and blue steels are made by hitachi. V-Toku2 is made by Takefu.

V-Toku2 looks like Blue #2 except that it is made with Swedish iron ore. The white steels lack tungsten and chromium and these two both have a similar dash of each.
Maybe that's what I'm remembering. Thanks for the info.
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