Knife myths you should not accept as true a priori (meant to be a POSITIVE thread!)

[vivi]

Liner locks were huge in the 90's. When I first got introduced to Spyderco I thought their use of backlocks was quaint and I didn't understand why they used an "outdated" lock.

[Surfingringo]

Myth: A combo edge doesn’t have enough of either edge type to be useful.

This is one of the most oft repeated comments I hear explaining people’s dislike for combo edges. I understand that a combo edge is not for everyone and I can think of some reasons not to like one but this statement doesn’t even make any sense. Is it to be taken literally? When people say this do they really mean that 1.5 inches of serrations is not useful? Even one or two serrations can be extremely useful. Or do they mean that one inch of pe is not useful because that makes no sense either. I would assume that what they mean is that a combo edge doesn’t have enough pe to be as useful as a full pe blade nor enough se to be as useful as a full se blade, but the statement neglects the fact that a combo edge offers FAR more se ability then a full pe blade and FAR more pe ability than a full se blade.

Honestly, I think a lot of folks just don’t like combo edges but struggle to articulate exactly why. Someone offers up this statement and it sounds like a good reason to hate combo edges (whether it makes sense or not) and it gets repeated as a common reason for the dislike. I don’t know, I’m ranting at this point based on my opinions and point of view but isn’t that kind of what this thread is all about? Hahaha. :p :p

[Doc Dan]

I like combo edges as a general rule. There are times I prefer a pe or se, but combos are good for daily use.

[James Y]

I think I might have stated that combo edges on shorter blades weren't so great, such as under 3" blades. My opinion only. I generally prefer a combo edge to be 3.5" or over. One of my favorite work knives was a combo edge Endura 3.

I've read people disliking combo edges because they're supposedly "hard to sharpen." I disagree. That's one criticism I never understood, because many who made that argument then stated they prefer either full plain or full serrated. Meaning they already have no trouble resharpening either edge type.

Jim

[aesmith]

My most carried knife is a combo UKPK. The sharpening issue that I face is reconciling the angles, between 15 degrees per side on the plain part, and 20 degrees one side and almost zero on the other for the serrations. What I end up doing is sharpening the segments separately, either just the plain bit or just the serrations.

[Wartstein]

Myth: A combo edge doesn’t have enough of either edge type to be useful.

This is one of the most oft repeated comments I hear explaining people’s dislike for combo edges. ....

Honestly, I think a lot of folks just don’t like combo edges but struggle to articulate exactly why. Someone offers up this statement and it sounds like a good reason to hate combo edges (whether it makes sense or not) and it gets repeated as a common reason for the dislike. I don’t know, I’m ranting at this point based on my opinions and point of view but isn’t that kind of what this thread is all about? Hahaha. :p :p

Great example for an on and on repeated myth! (Can´t believt I did not think of it myself in my OP.. )

Somehow the "myth" goes even further, something like this: People new to knives and still clueless very often want combo edges, thinking they would look cool and give you the best of both worlds. BUT: When you progress to being a SERIOUS, EXPERIENCED knife-user, you almost HAVE to realize that combo edges are just gimmicky in fact (otherwise you CAN`T be experienced ) and solely for newbs (again, that´s the myth)

I am not a real fan of combo edges myself, but mostly for aesthetic reasons I guess. They can be very usefull, and if both the SE and the PE part is sharpened properly, most cutting tasks can be done with the WHOLE edge anyway (so in one slicing motion, utilizing both PE and SE in a single cut)

And my old CE Delica still is the best knife for rock climbing I currently have. Exactly BECAUSE it has a combo edge...

[The Meat man]

Myth: A combo edge doesn’t have enough of either edge type to be useful.

This is one of the most oft repeated comments I hear explaining people’s dislike for combo edges. I understand that a combo edge is not for everyone and I can think of some reasons not to like one but this statement doesn’t even make any sense. Is it to be taken literally? When people say this do they really mean that 1.5 inches of serrations is not useful? Even one or two serrations can be extremely useful. Or do they mean that one inch of pe is not useful because that makes no sense either. I would assume that what they mean is that a combo edge doesn’t have enough pe to be as useful as a full pe blade nor enough se to be as useful as a full se blade, but the statement neglects the fact that a combo edge offers FAR more se ability then a full pe blade and FAR more pe ability than a full se blade.

Honestly, I think a lot of folks just don’t like combo edges but struggle to articulate exactly why. Someone offers up this statement and it sounds like a good reason to hate combo edges (whether it makes sense or not) and it gets repeated as a common reason for the dislike. I don’t know, I’m ranting at this point based on my opinions and point of view but isn’t that kind of what this thread is all about? Hahaha. :p :p

The main reason I don't like combo edges is because with CE there aren't enough serrations to really highlight their chief advantage, i.e., aggressive pull cutting. If you only have an inch or so of SE, how much slicing are you going to be doing versus straight push cutting? Your slicing stroke is limited by how much blade length you have, and if you've only got an inch of serrations, you aren't going to get much of the great benefits serrations offer.

Now if the combo edge SE/PE ratio was more like 60/40, or 70/30, and on a longer blade like the Military, it might be a completely different story.

[Surfingringo]

Hey Meat man, I hear you but I also think it depends what you are cutting. I like serrations on the kayak for gill cutting fish. Even a couple or serrations is enough to grab the gill and make a much more controlled and short pull cut. One of the biggest advantages I get out of serrations is how they make it easier to initiate a cut on certain materials. When cutting into a heavily scaled snapper a low grit finish will bite much better than a polished edge. Serrations will initiate the cut even easier for the same reason. For this reason, i DO tend to like my serrations to cover the belly of the blade. Like you i tend to prefer a 70/30 combo to a 50/50. That’s usually enough to carry the serrations through the belly while leaving an inch or so of pe at the tip.

[jpm2]

I don't recall ever reading or hearing anyone say a linerlock was as strong or stronger than a backlock.

Myth: High carbide steels don't take or hold a fine edge as long as low/no carbide steels.

Great one.

I will say sometimes lower carbide steels can be a better choice for knives where high sharpness is important, due to the ease of keeping them that sharp, but high carbide steels can absolutely take fine, polished edges and hold them.

A lot of people seem to think the S30V, S110V etc. can't hold hair whittling sharp mirror edges, but there is 0 truth to that. In fact S30V was the first blade steel I got hair whittling sharp (Original G10 UKPK off a DMT Fine)

Absolutely the lower carbide steels are faster to sharpen, all else equal. 1095, 52100, aeb-l, etc all take a razor edge very quick.
I'll go a little further and say in general, the higher the carbide content, the longer the fine edge lasts.
Right now of the blade steels I own and have used, maxamet is the king of fine edge holding. It's also the highest carbide content and the hardest rc. This follows suite all the way down the line to 10XX class steels.

[Surfingringo]

I don't recall ever reading or hearing anyone say a linerlock was as strong or stronger than a backlock.

Myth: High carbide steels don't take or hold a fine edge as long as low/no carbide steels.

Great one.

I will say sometimes lower carbide steels can be a better choice for knives where high sharpness is important, due to the ease of keeping them that sharp, but high carbide steels can absolutely take fine, polished edges and hold them.

A lot of people seem to think the S30V, S110V etc. can't hold hair whittling sharp mirror edges, but there is 0 truth to that. In fact S30V was the first blade steel I got hair whittling sharp (Original G10 UKPK off a DMT Fine)

Absolutely the lower carbide steels are faster to sharpen, all else equal. 1095, 52100, aeb-l, etc all take a razor edge very quick.
I'll go a little further and say in general, the higher the carbide content, the longer the fine edge lasts.
Right now of the blade steels I own and have used, maxamet is the king of fine edge holding. It's also the highest carbide content and the hardest rc. This follows suite all the way down the line to 10XX class steels.

I too have been impressed with how long Maxamet will hold its high level sharpness. I suspect this has more to do with hardness than carbide content.

[The Meat man]

Hey Meat man, I hear you but I also think it depends what you are cutting. I like serrations on the kayak for gill cutting fish. Even a couple or serrations is enough to grab the gill and make a much more controlled and short pull cut. One of the biggest advantages I get out of serrations is how they make it easier to initiate a cut on certain materials. When cutting into a heavily scaled snapper a low grit finish will bite much better than a polished edge. Serrations will initiate the cut even easier for the same reason. For this reason, i DO tend to like my serrations to cover the belly of the blade. Like you i tend to prefer a 70/30 combo to a 50/50. That’s usually enough to carry the serrations through the belly while leaving an inch or so of pe at the tip.

Yeah I can see how in some cases even a few serrations could be helpful in grabbing and initiating a cut in tougher material.
I would like to try out a combo edge, 4" blade, with the first 1.25" plain edge and the rest serrated. I think that might be a better way of combining the best of both worlds, at least for my uses.

[jpm2]

I don't recall ever reading or hearing anyone say a linerlock was as strong or stronger than a backlock.

I have both read and heard people say that liner locks are as strong or stronger than lockbacks. But it's been many years since then. Mostly back in the late '90s/early 2K. I recall reading something posted by Chris Caracci (who designed Benchmade's AFCK, which was originally inspired to be a liner lock version of Spyderco's Police model), say that liner locks were superior and safer/more reliable than lockbacks. IIRC, he also said that liner locks are also safer/more reliable than Axis locks.

I read in a knife making book by Bob Terzuola that liner locks are better and safer than lockbacks, because liner locks operate under compression, whereas lockbacks rely on tension, and are therefore more prone to catastrophic failure when they do fail, than a liner lock is.

I knew a knife dealer who used to say that liner locks are always going to be stronger and more reliable than lockbacks, and that's why he preferred them for himself.

I used to have a videotape by some guy who used to sell survival/self-defense gear and put out VHS videos back in the '90s who also stated that, compared to lockbacks, "the liner lock is a better system," and that if you buy a tactical knife for SD, make sure it has a liner lock.

Those are some examples. I started noticing more criticisms of liner locks since around early 2K, around the time that BM introduced the Axis lock.

I like some liner lock knives (my favorite being the Military), but I do not believe that liner locks are superior. Admittedly, I did believe it for a brief period in the late '90s, because I'd heard enough other people say so, and because the modern version of the liner lock was "hot" at the time. Also, my very first locking knife back in the '70s had a brass liner lock that acted as a backup to a backspring on a large Schrade folding hunter. But in the '90s, of course, it was the Walker liner lock that people were gaga over.

Jim

So far, my linerlocks have been strong enough to be "safe" and "reliable", and in that context the added strength of a backlock over a linerlock has little or nothing to do with safe and reliable, but since you brought it up...

I carried and used a benchmade mini afck everyday for 15+ years, it was the knife I used for 99.9% of everything. During that time, it never failed to lock open, stay locked open, and unlock to close. It never opened in my pocket, and I never got cut opening, or closing it.

I have cut myself a few times opening a backlock where my thumb slipped and it snapped back on a finger. If my thumb slips from a linerlock, the blade stays in place.

I have had backlocks fail to lock open, it only takes a tiny bit of lint, dirt, or other trash.

I can somewhat understand the catastrophic failure reference from Mr Terzuola. Although with todays quality a failure is unlikely, a backlock failure will probably leave a blade free swinging, with your fingers most likely in the path of the blade with nothing to stop it, or slow it down. The knife will probably be unuseable, or mostly so.

With a linerlock, unless the liner spring breaks completely and separates from the rest of the knife(not likely), or the spring slips from its locked position (more likely than the former), the only other failure is bending (most likely), which is more of a gradual fail and imo less dangerous. The knife is probably still useable.

Anyway, that's my experience and thoughts on reliability and safety comparing linerlocks and backlocks.

[jpm2]

I don't recall ever reading or hearing anyone say a linerlock was as strong or stronger than a backlock.

Myth: High carbide steels don't take or hold a fine edge as long as low/no carbide steels.

Great one.

I will say sometimes lower carbide steels can be a better choice for knives where high sharpness is important, due to the ease of keeping them that sharp, but high carbide steels can absolutely take fine, polished edges and hold them.

A lot of people seem to think the S30V, S110V etc. can't hold hair whittling sharp mirror edges, but there is 0 truth to that. In fact S30V was the first blade steel I got hair whittling sharp (Original G10 UKPK off a DMT Fine)

Absolutely the lower carbide steels are faster to sharpen, all else equal. 1095, 52100, aeb-l, etc all take a razor edge very quick.
I'll go a little further and say in general, the higher the carbide content, the longer the fine edge lasts.
Right now of the blade steels I own and have used, maxamet is the king of fine edge holding. It's also the highest carbide content and the hardest rc. This follows suite all the way down the line to 10XX class steels.

I too have been impressed with how long Maxamet will hold its high level sharpness. I suspect this has more to do with hardness than carbide content.

It could be that hardness has more to do with it. A good test would be the S*V family at same hardness to see if carbide content made much difference.

[vivi]

I had one of the buck / strider collabs consistently unlock anytime any pressure was put on the spine. Stab it into a cardboard box and try to wiggle it free, lock failed every time. Sent it in to Buck, got it back in the same condition.

Other than that I've never had an issue with liner locks staying open. It's staying closed they seem to find challenging for me.

[jpm2]

I had one of the buck / strider collabs consistently unlock anytime any pressure was put on the spine. Stab it into a cardboard box and try to wiggle it free, lock failed every time. Sent it in to Buck, got it back in the same condition.

Other than that I've never had an issue with liner locks staying open. It's staying closed they seem to find challenging for me.

That would be intolerable for sure.

[Tucson Tom]

I don't really care about closing a knife. I just want to be able to open it one handed quickly and easily. One is objectively more of a safety concern than the other when it comes to my lifestyle.

Amen brother! How did we get derailed with all this fuss about closing our knives?

I have to draw the analogy with a pistol. It is all about getting it into action -- when it is going back in the holster, you have all the time in the world.

[Wartstein]

I don't really care about closing a knife. I just want to be able to open it one handed quickly and easily. One is objectively more of a safety concern than the other when it comes to my lifestyle.

Amen brother! How did we get derailed with all this fuss about closing our knives?

I have to draw the analogy with a pistol. It is all about getting it into action -- when it is going back in the holster, you have all the time in the world.

I am also somehow sorry about how this discussion about knife closing started to get a bit heated and extensive (and sure I am one of those responsible that it did).

But let me say one thing: If we assume, that anything we´re discussing on this forum is of any relevance at all (and tbh, for most people "outside" this forum it is not: Specific FRN texturing?... S30V vs S35 VN?... drop point vs leaf shape?...), "how to close a knife" is still one of the things that DO have a bit more real life relevance for "just" knife users (as opposed to knife-enthusiasts).

Now I may have put that not right in the past, but my concern is really NOT to tell any specific person that he or she "has to" like backlocks or like closing them.
BUT: It bothers me a bit, when for example guests lurking on this forum maybe never even give backlock-knives a try, cause they assume from comments here that only a few dexterity geniusses with a lot of specific training can get to the point where one handed closing is somewhat possible. That´s just not how it is...

/ Concerning your pistol analogy (and this is definitely not a lock discussion any more, but just my thoughts on the analogy! ):
I have to disagree to a certain degree:
I think when drawing a pistol in an sd situation it is probably almost ALWAYS about doing this very fast, while when going back in the holster there is no need for speed
In a knife-task it CAN be of importance to "getting the knife into action" as fast as possible.
But if time is a concern at all here, I think with MOST knife tasks what counts is the OVERALL time it takes to complete the task (so drawing, opening, cutting, closing, putting the knife away again). But probably what counts more here than the shortest possible time is the convenience and ease with which a knife task (from drawing to putting in the pocket again) can be done.

[vivi]

I don't really care about closing a knife. I just want to be able to open it one handed quickly and easily. One is objectively more of a safety concern than the other when it comes to my lifestyle.

Amen brother! How did we get derailed with all this fuss about closing our knives?

I have to draw the analogy with a pistol. It is all about getting it into action -- when it is going back in the holster, you have all the time in the world.

There's not always a convenient place to leave a sharp knife laying around. Working on a ladder working on a moving boat, working under water, etc.

[Bloke]

[vivi]

lol, this place lately.