Knife myths you should not accept as true a priori (meant to be a POSITIVE thread!)

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Wartstein
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Knife myths you should not accept as true a priori (meant to be a POSITIVE thread!)

Postby Wartstein » Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:04 am

Below I listed some "knife-myths" I sometimes come across (more generally on the internet, not so often, but still also, on this forum).
These are myths I believe, or to put it better, definitely found out, at least for (just) ME, are not true at all.

The intention of this thread is NOT to argue over wether one lock, method, approach, and so on is better than the other! I´d just want to invite all of you to post (negative) knife myths YOU believe not to be true, so that the one or the other can try for themselves, perhaps overcome certain misbeliefes and enjoy knives in an additional or new way ;) - let´s keep this positive! :)

- Serrations are hard to sharpen: No. At least not if one owns a sharpmaker
- Under 3mm bladestock is too thin to be robust enough in a general utility knife: No. Delica (2.5mm) and Chaparral (2.00mm) do every knife task for me without any problem and I never feared I could break their blades
- Backlocks are hard and awkward to close / operate one handed: No. Has been discussed a lot lately, it just takes a bit more practice than with other locks maybe
- Choking up on a (Endura-/Delica-ish) Ricasso is unsafe and uncomfortable compared to a dedicated choil: : No. I do it ALL the time, in various tasks and conditions, no problems at all (concerning safety, comfort can be discussed of course and depends a lot on personal preference)
- Linerlocks are too weak: : No, at least not on Spydies. They have other aspects that make me like backlocks more, but no Spyderco linerlock will ever fail due to "weakness" in a normal or even hard knife task.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Knife myths you should not accept as true a priori (meant to be a POSITIVE thread!)

Postby Notsurewhy » Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:30 am

Flat grinds cut better than hollow grinds. It depends on what you are cutting.

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Re: Knife myths you should not accept as true a priori (meant to be a POSITIVE thread!)

Postby cycleguy » Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:33 am

If it ain't a PM2, it ain't diddly!!!! Nope, not true. All the other Spydercos are good too...

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Re: Knife myths you should not accept as true a priori (meant to be a POSITIVE thread!)

Postby Evil D » Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:48 am

Boy there's gonna be a whole lot of "depends" in this thread.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David

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Re: Knife myths you should not accept as true a priori (meant to be a POSITIVE thread!)

Postby Wartstein » Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:56 am

Evil D wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:48 am
Boy there's gonna be a whole lot of "depends" in this thread.
You may be right, and if, it´s my fault cause I could not put my op the way it was meant properly perhaps...

All I intend is: Give people a hint and the chance to try out things they would have maybe not otherwise, due to a (false??) "myth" YOU personally do not believe to be true... So that they can decide for themselvves what THEY believe after trying...
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Knife myths you should not accept as true a priori (meant to be a POSITIVE thread!)

Postby cycleguy » Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:15 am

cycleguy wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:33 am
If it ain't a PM2, it ain't diddly!!!! Nope, not true. All the other Spydercos are good too...

CG
Put a few of these behind it :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) and don't get to serious about it...

CG
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Re: Knife myths you should not accept as true a priori (meant to be a POSITIVE thread!)

Postby anycal » Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:17 am

In the spirit of keeping this positive, I will say that I have knives with various locks and don't dislike any of them because of the lock.

Liner locks and compression locks try to commit a murder in your pocket every time you carry them - there is less than a handful of users here I can think of that keep repeating something along these lines. Not knowing these individuals, and not knowing the circumstances of these incidents, it is what it is. One in particular ;) , admittedly hasn't carried such knife in over five years, yet based on the bi-monthly mention of this would make it seem like this happened to him yesterday.

Back locks are immune to opening when dropped - not in my experience. Any lock you can upside down, gravity drop, flick open (every knife I tried) may open upon impact.

Edit: Now that I finally had my cup of coffee, I'd like to apologize for coming off as critical of a member and his experiences and opinions. I was only trying to take a friendly jab at the frequency of them on this topic.
Last edited by anycal on Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Knife myths you should not accept as true a priori (meant to be a POSITIVE thread!)

Postby Wartstein » Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:26 am

anycal wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:17 am
In the spirit of keeping this positive, I will say that I have knives with various locks and don't dislike any of them because of the lock.

Liner locks and compression locks try to commit a murder in your pocket every time you carry them - there is less than a handful of users here I can think of that keep repeating something along these lines. Not knowing these individuals, and not knowing the circumstances of these incidents, it is what it is. One in particular ;) , admittedly hasn't carried such knife in over five years, yet based on the bi-monthly mention of this would make it seem like this happened to him yesterday.

Back locks are immune to opening when dropped - not in my experience. Any lock you can upside down, gravity drop, flick open (every knife I tried) may open upon impact.

Thanks for your comment!

BUT: I´d just ask anyone who might feel the urge to reply to it and start another discussion about locks (and in other threads I´d probably be one of those guys too!): Please resist if possible, or at least keep it brief.
Would be nice to have a thread that mainly brings people to try out "knife-things" they would perhaps have not otherwise (due to believing in a negative "knife-myth"), and then decide for themselves if whatever "knife-thing" is for them or not.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Knife myths you should not accept as true a priori (meant to be a POSITIVE thread!)

Postby Dazen » Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:45 am

Folders are easier to carry than Fixed Blades!

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Re: Knife myths you should not accept as true a priori (meant to be a POSITIVE thread!)

Postby Pancake » Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:51 am

You only need a one good quality Spyderco. For sure, hahhahaha :D
In the pocket: Chaparral FRN, Native Chief, Police 4 K390
On belt: Bow River, Waterway

Plans for future: Manix 2 XL (?)
Hoping for: Cru-Wear Proficient

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Re: Knife myths you should not accept as true a priori (meant to be a POSITIVE thread!)

Postby cycleguy » Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:53 am

Knives without locks are no good ... Wouldn't ever consider owning one of them!!! Nope, not true ... the UK PenKnife is a wonderful user!!!

After using one for a few months, I'm finding locks to be a pesky nuisance. I guess for my uses, non-emergency light duty slicing, they really aren't necessary. Can I go as far as to say they may be nothing more than "training wheels" for knives (again for my uses). I guess if you understand force, direction, and fulcrum you aren't going to have a problem. I've used them for ohhh around 50 years without issues.

Now casting my vote for the small and medium sized Spyderco line-up to be offered without locks. Suppose that is probably a first. :) :cool: :p ;) :D :o Current dream knife ... slip joint Delica 4 then slip joint Chaparral followed by slip joint Sage. "Locks ... We Don't Need No Stinking Locks"! :eek:

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Re: Knife myths you should not accept as true a priori (meant to be a POSITIVE thread!)

Postby Wartstein » Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:59 am

cycleguy wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:53 am
Knives without locks are no good ... Wouldn't ever consider owning one of them!!! Nope, not true ... the UK PenKnife is a wonderful user!!!

After using one for a few months, I'm finding locks to be a pesky nuisance. I guess for my uses, non-emergency light duty slicing, they really aren't necessary. Can I go as far as to say they may be nothing more than "training wheels" for knives (again for my uses). I guess if you understand force, direction, and fulcrum you aren't going to have a problem. I've used them for ohhh around 50 years without issues.

Now casting my vote for the small and medium sized Spyderco line-up to be offered without locks. Suppose that is probably a first. :) :cool: :p ;) :D :o Current dream knife ... slip joint Delica 4 then slip joint Chaparral followed by slip joint Sage. "Locks ... We Don't Need No Stinking Locks"! :eek:

CG

That´s actually a good example for what I wanted to achieve with this thread, and your comment directly concerns myself.. ;)

I´d really never, ever consider carrying a non locking Spyderco, despite I honestly never tried or even held one, so I can´t speak from experience... so the assumption it would not work for me, is preliminary not much more than just a "myth"

(Still: All small and medium Spydies GENERALLY without a lock... :eek: :eek: :eek: )
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Knife myths you should not accept as true a priori (meant to be a POSITIVE thread!)

Postby The Meat man » Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:05 am

Wartstein wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:04 am
Below I listed some "knife-myths" I sometimes come across (more generally on the internet, not so often, but still also, on this forum).
These are myths I believe, or to put it better, definitely found out, at least for (just) ME, are not true at all.

The intention of this thread is NOT to argue over wether one lock, method, approach, and so on is better than the other! I´d just want to invite all of you to post (negative) knife myths YOU believe not to be true, so that the one or the other can try for themselves, perhaps overcome certain misbeliefes and enjoy knives in an additional or new way ;) - let´s keep this positive! :)

- Serrations are hard to sharpen: No. At least not if one owns a sharpmaker
- Under 3mm bladestock is too thin to be robust enough in a general utility knife: No. Delica (2.5mm) and Chaparral (2.00mm) do every knife task for me without any problem and I never feared I could break their blades
- Backlocks are hard and awkward to close / operate one handed: No. Has been discussed a lot lately, it just takes a bit more practice than with other locks maybe
- Choking up on a (Endura-/Delica-ish) Ricasso is unsafe and uncomfortable compared to a dedicated choil: : No. I do it ALL the time, in various tasks and conditions, no problems at all (concerning safety, comfort can be discussed of course and depends a lot on personal preference)
- Linerlocks are too weak: : No, at least not on Spydies. They have other aspects that make me like backlocks more, but no Spyderco linerlock will ever fail due to "weakness" in a normal or even hard knife task.


Very interesting thread Wartstein! I must say I agree with all of your points here.
- Connor

Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." (John 14:6)

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Re: Knife myths you should not accept as true a priori (meant to be a POSITIVE thread!)

Postby ferider » Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:25 am

Wartstein wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:04 am
: : :
- Backlocks are hard and awkward to close / operate one handed: No. Has been discussed a lot lately, it just takes a bit more practice than with other locks maybe
: : :
My friend: have you ever considered that you make other people feel stupid or less dexterious by emphasizing this over, and over again ? I have many back-locks, but I like to close them with one hand and my leg, period. Because 1 out of 100 times, I _will_ cut myself closing a backlock one-handed, so I don't. Not a backlock, but take this other example of the point I want to make: yesterday, I was EDC'ing a 3" Hinderer XM-18 Wharncliffe, such a beautiful knife, and not cheap: I _really_ wanted to like it (and many people love 3" XM-18s). But during the day, I cut myself twice across the thumb, closing it one-handed; this _never_ happens with any other of my larger Hinderers with similar RIL, but longer blades, and larger choils: they close super easily and comfortably. The difference is caused by how the tiny knife with a strong detent will get my fat thumb stuck undr the flipper (I'm 6' 5"). So the 3" Wharncliffe will go in the safe for now, probably be gifted to one of my daughters for Xmas, and I will carry the XM-24 Wharncliffe instead - because I love it and it fits me.

The point is we all have different hands, making certain things easier than others. Just because you can put any sized sock on your foot, it doesn't mean small socks have to be comfortable :)

Otherwise a good thread; here is a Myth to add to your list:

- High HRC is equal high wear resistance

Carry on :)

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Re: Knife myths you should not accept as true a priori (meant to be a POSITIVE thread!)

Postby rangefinder » Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:28 am

Image
https://xkcd.com/386/

It's difficult to unlock a compression lock wearing gloves.

Some variation of this has been posted a number of times. So I went through my house and put on every pair of gloves I own and tried unlocking a PM2. These included light casual gloves, thicker insulated winter gloves, heavy leather work gloves, even some very thick MIG welding gloves. And I had no issues unlocking the PM2 wearing any of the gloves.

Does that mean my experience is universally true for everyone? Or even true for all compression locks? No. I typically wear a men's size M glove, but I could easily see how someone who wears XL gloves could have difficulty doing this. Just because something is possible for one person (or knife) does not make it universally true.

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Re: Knife myths you should not accept as true a priori (meant to be a POSITIVE thread!)

Postby Wartstein » Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:56 am

rangefinder wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:28 am

It's difficult to unlock a compression lock wearing gloves.

Some variation of this has been posted a number of times. So I went through my house and put on every pair of gloves I own and tried unlocking a PM2. These included light casual gloves, thicker insulated winter gloves, heavy leather work gloves, even some very thick MIG welding gloves. And I had no issues unlocking the PM2 wearing any of the gloves.

Does that mean my experience is universally true for everyone? Or even true for all compression locks? No. I typically wear a men's size M glove, but I could easily see how someone who wears XL gloves could have difficulty doing this. Just because something is possible for one person (or knife) does not make it universally true.
That's kind of the point why I started this thread! (Ok, a bit the other way round: "Just because something is NOT possible for one person or this person says so, does not make it universally NOT possible for everyone..." ;)).

So the "unlocking comp. locks wearing gloves is difficult" -thing is a (not true) knife myth for YOU personally (like the "choking up on the Ricasso is unsafe"-thing is one for ME personally).

And I sure hope some people who just believe a comp. lock is hard to operate with gloves cause they only HEARD so will try for themselves stimulated by your post.

I personally did already several times, and just for ME it happens to be not just a myth. I wear gloves quite often (mountaineering and trailrunning in the cold, skitouring...) and find it by far harder to use a comp.lock in that scenarios than a back- or let alone linerlock.

So here I am different to you. But the point is: I really tried for MYSELF, and not just once. That's what I hope to achieve a tiny bit with this thread
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Knife myths you should not accept as true a priori (meant to be a POSITIVE thread!)

Postby Wartstein » Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:20 am

ferider wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:25 am
Wartstein wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:04 am
: : :
- Backlocks are hard and awkward to close / operate one handed: No. Has been discussed a lot lately, it just takes a bit more practice than with other locks maybe
: : :
My friend: have you ever considered that you make other people feel stupid or less dexterious by emphasizing this over, and over again ? I have many back-locks, but I like to close them with one hand and my leg, period. Because 1 out of 100 times, I _will_ cut myself closing a backlock one-handed, so I don't. Not a backlock, but take this other example of the point I want to make: yesterday, I was EDC'ing a 3" Hinderer XM-18 Wharncliffe, such a beautiful knife, and not cheap: I _really_ wanted to like it (and many people love 3" XM-18s). But during the day, I cut myself twice across the thumb, closing it one-handed; this _never_ happens with any other of my larger Hinderers with similar RIL, but longer blades, and larger choils: they close super easily and comfortably. The difference is caused by how the tiny knife with a strong detent will get my fat thumb stuck undr the flipper (I'm 6' 5"). So the 3" Wharncliffe will go in the safe for now, probably be gifted to one of my daughters for Xmas, and I will carry the XM-24 Wharncliffe instead - because I love it and it fits me.

The point is we all have different hands, making certain things easier than others. Just because you can put any sized sock on your foot, it doesn't mean small socks have to be comfortable :)

Otherwise a good thread; here is a Myth to add to your list:

- High HRC is equal high wear resistance

Carry on :)

Also-my-friend, thanks for your reply!

And yes, as a matter of fact I did consider if debunking the negative "backlock-myths" might come across as if I'd want to make "look other people stupid"..

But: No, with all respect.

Practically all of my posts concerning that were triggered directly or indirectly by really quite silly posts how VERY awkward and very hard to operate one handed backlocks generally should allegedly be.
And that is just not true. If you look at who is online in this forum, most times there are many (unregistered) guests. They might read "backlock awkward" stuff, believe it to be true cause it's stated on the SPYDERCO-forum, maybe try to handle a backlock once and dismiss it, cause, YES, a backlock takes a bit more practice time. But after it should be easy to operate for almost everyone.

Your Hinderer may be a special case, but any Spyderco backlock I am aware of just can be closed one handed without ANY danger for the fingers if one uses the right method (just one as an example: Unlock with the thumb- pull the blade half closed with index finger in the hole- push to close with three or four fingers on the spine).

But, as said: Lock discussions are not what I had in mind with this thread.
Just that people try and practice closing methods for themselves, before deciding- also for themselves- if for THEM the backlock-thing is a myth or not... :)
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Knife myths you should not accept as true a priori (meant to be a POSITIVE thread!)

Postby Wartstein » Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:35 am

ferider wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:25 am
Wartstein wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:04 am
: : :
- Backlocks are hard and awkward to close / operate one handed: No. Has been discussed a lot lately, it just takes a bit more practice than with other locks maybe
: : :
- High HRC is equal high wear resistance

Carry on :)

That's a very good example for a "myth" not too few probably do believe to be true.. I know very little about steels and related stuff myself, so I just took from reading in this forum, that High HRC does not EQUAL high wear resistance, but don't know how high the correlation between those two parameters still is though...
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Knife myths you should not accept as true a priori (meant to be a POSITIVE thread!)

Postby The Meat man » Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:42 am

ferider wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:25 am

Otherwise a good thread; here is a Myth to add to your list:

- High HRC is equal high wear resistance

Carry on :)
This is a myth?
Perhaps you mean that higher HRC doesn't automatically mean steel A will have higher wear resistance than steel B?
There are other factors but HRC most certainly does have some affect on a steel's wear resistance.
- Connor

Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." (John 14:6)

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Re: Knife myths you should not accept as true a priori (meant to be a POSITIVE thread!)

Postby Wartstein » Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:48 am

The Meat man wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:42 am
ferider wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:25 am

Otherwise a good thread; here is a Myth to add to your list:

- High HRC is equal high wear resistance

Carry on :)
This is a myth?
Perhaps you mean that higher HRC doesn't automatically mean steel A will have higher wear resistance than steel B?
There are other factors but HRC most certainly does have some affect on a steel's wear resistance.

I am not good enough in English to be sure, but doesn' t "equal" mean there is a 100% correlation? (Which (100%) is certainly not true in this case, right? )
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40


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