Community Sharpening Journal

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
vivi
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

Postby vivi » Sun Oct 11, 2020 2:39 pm

SpyderCuse wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 12:39 pm
Vivi you're a sharpening mad scientist, man. I bought the Xtra coarse DMT stone a few weeks ago because of your video and now I happened to have that Harbor Freight 4 sided sharpener laying around. Did one knife with 300 and another with 400 and they're both screaming sharp! They were S35VN and 154cm. Thanks again man for constantly testing new things and sharing it with us!
Glad they're giving you good results!

My Siren lost its aggression pretty quick with the 1200 grit edge. Broke down and gave it the 300 grit treatment last night. Cutting much better.

This week I plan to fully reset the bevel on that and the S110V Para 3.
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Baron Mind
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

Postby Baron Mind » Sun Oct 11, 2020 5:57 pm

I love to see people taking their serrated knives thinner bte. Great idea. I've got a Cruwear para 3 and a pm2 I've thinned bte by hand, and I really like the performance. It's not the most attractive thing in the world. I usually go thst route after mucking up the appearance some other way. But, I'm hoping Spyderco notices their diehard fans interest in thinner cutting geometries and starts working it in to their production knives.

Other random sharpening tidbits:

I can't wait for the new CBN stone to come out.

I just ordered a coticule. That should be a ton of fun.

I almost pulled the trigger on an Astute, but went with a CJRB Ria instead. 8cr13mov vs AR-RPM9... I couldn't do it, at least not at that moment. Despite the fancy name, AR-RPM9 is just a powdered version of 9cr18mov, but 9cr is a noticeable upgrade over 8cr to begin with, and powdering it makes it even better. IMO, it's time for Spyderco to step up the steel on thrir China knives. Bd1n on their other budget knives is great, but the 8cr needs to go. It's time. The industry is advancing. Any Sandvik steel would be fine, bd1 would be fine, bd1n would be great... need to do something.

vivi
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

Postby vivi » Sun Oct 11, 2020 10:56 pm

I challenged myself to get my Aqua Salt shaving sharp off my 200 grit plate tonight.

To start it had a fairly uneven bevel in the 10dps ballpark, with a microbevel that had grown thick ground at 15dps.

First I reset the bevel holding the knife about as close as I could get to flat to the stone, without touching the top of the hollow grind. I started out grinding each side until the bevel looked reasonably flat and I raised a burr, then finished with alternating strokes to minimize the burr.

Then I did about 3 feather light strokes per side at a more obtuse angle, a little under 15 degrees per side.

No stropping. Fresh off the coarsest diamond stone I own:

Image
Image

https://streamable.com/conwn8

Here I am attempting to shave arm hairs with this edge:

https://streamable.com/jcqv1q
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Baron Mind
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

Postby Baron Mind » Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:18 pm

vivi wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 10:56 pm
I challenged myself to get my Aqua Salt shaving sharp off my 200 grit plate tonight.

To start it had a fairly uneven bevel in the 10dps ballpark, with a microbevel that had grown thick ground at 15dps.

First I reset the bevel holding the knife about as close as I could get to flat to the stone, without touching the top of the hollow grind. I started out grinding each side until the bevel looked reasonably flat and I raised a burr, then finished with alternating strokes to minimize the burr.

Then I did about 3 feather light strokes per side at a more obtuse angle, a little under 15 degrees per side.

No stropping. Fresh off the coarsest diamond stone I own:

Image
Image

https://streamable.com/conwn8

Here I am attempting to shave arm hairs with this edge:

https://streamable.com/jcqv1q
Nice job. I have found it quite difficult to get a clean, keen apex off of my coarse stones. I think what I'm missing is the ultralight pressure strokes at the end, but it certainly is challenging either way.

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RustyIron
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Prettying up a couple work knives

Postby RustyIron » Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:53 pm

These two knives have been seeing the most use over the past couple weeks. The Native 5 in REX 45 is in my shorts pocket after work. Most recently it's been hacking and pruning small plants and woody things. Diamond Matrix stones are the answer for this material. I can leave it at 250 or take it up to 4k, depending on my mood. Either gives a satisfying edge. Today I rubbed it on some 1 micron and 0.25 micron CBN, just because. It's kinda sharp now.

IMG_9294.jpeg
IMG_9297.jpeg

The Manix 2 in Maxamet is for work, and it sometimes it touches copper or brass. That's how it gets those little chips towards the tip. I don't clean it up completely because that would use up a lot of material. Consider the chips like serrations -- Maxa-rations. I use the same diamond matrix stones as on the previous knife. Normally I leave this edge at about 650, but not today.

IMG_9307.jpeg
Sometimes I'll use diamond plates if I want to remove a lot of material fast, but there's a downside. Even when using fine plates, there are deep scratches and microscopic chips. I think this is because the diamonds, even the small ones, sit high on the plate, so they gouge deep. With a matrix, the area between the diamonds is filled up, so they don't sit as high, and are gentler on the blade.

vivi
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

Postby vivi » Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:17 pm

Baron Mind wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:18 pm
vivi wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 10:56 pm
I challenged myself to get my Aqua Salt shaving sharp off my 200 grit plate tonight.
https://streamable.com/jcqv1q
Nice job. I have found it quite difficult to get a clean, keen apex off of my coarse stones. I think what I'm missing is the ultralight pressure strokes at the end, but it certainly is challenging either way.
I've been using this knife on anything I can come up with an excuse for and its making me re-think sharpening again. I love the way it cuts and setting the edge was so much faster than higher grit stones.

Its funny because this is the knife I began my low grit experiments with.

Used to reprofile my knives to 8-12 degrees per side on DMT plates, then touch up with the 15 degree slots on the sharpmaker using the fine or ultrafine rods.

Using this setup my edges had good geometry but did not last as long as I could like. Particularly in PE H1.

With PE H1 and a few other steels I noticed polished edges start out cutting very nice, then when they get dulled to the 80-90% sharp range, cutting ability starts to dramatically fall off. They start sliding around on materials once the apex experiences a little wear or deformation.

I had heard that lower grit edges tended to last longer but never tested it.

I tried using the medium rods I never really used and I was happy with the edge I got. It cut a little more aggressively testing the Aqua Salt on cardboard and could still push cut paper or shave.

I started using that finish on my folders too and came to enjoy the enhanced slicing abilities and extra edge holding.

Eventually I tried finishing the edge with my DMT X Coarse reprofiling stone. Took me a few tries to be able to get shaving sharpness with it, but eventually I was there.

After buying a new four sided diamond plate I gradually worked my way down the grits, starting with 600, then 400, then settled on 300 for a while, now 200.

I see I can get 180 grit plates from the same source. I'm going to try one soon :cool:

Recently took my M4 Manix from a medium rod finish to the DMT black and it doesn't feel nearly coarse enough for my current preferences. Feels half way there.
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u.w.
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

Postby u.w. » Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:42 pm

So between ViVi, and Joe Calton, I started playing around with "courser" edges last year. I Absolutely Loved the aggression that the 325 grit edge had on any, and every knife I put it on. Continuing to follow ViVi's lead, I stopped by my local HF and grabbed the 4 sided diamond plate sharpener yesterday... Oh wow!
Thank you ViVi for sharing your knowledge, experiences, etc...

u.w.

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Bloke
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

Postby Bloke » Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:54 pm

vivi wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:17 pm
With PE H1 ...
The only PE H1 I have is my HB Tasman Salt. I use the knife exclusively to clean fish, including cutting out gill rakes and it also works exceptionally well at brain spiking my targeted species. I sharpen it with the the SharpMaker diamond rods and lightly strop with plain old chrome oxide on firm cowhide leather. This leaves an aggressive edge that sails through fish bellies and edge retention has never been an issue.

I'm convinced that how we sharpen is the biggest variable when it comes to edge retention. :)
A day without laughter is a day wasted. ~ Charlie Chaplin

vivi
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

Postby vivi » Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:14 pm

Bloke wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:54 pm
vivi wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:17 pm
With PE H1 ...
The only PE H1 I have is my HB Tasman Salt. I use the knife exclusively to clean fish, including cutting out gill rakes and it also works exceptionally well at brain spiking my targeted species. I sharpen it with the the SharpMaker diamond rods and lightly strop with plain old chrome oxide on firm cowhide leather. This leaves an aggressive edge that sails through fish bellies and edge retention has never been an issue.

I'm convinced that how we sharpen is the biggest variable when it comes to edge retention. :)
I'm convinced you're right. Heck, give three people the same VG10 Endura and the same sharpening system and you'll probably get three different levels of sharpness.

Sounds like the perfect type of edge for PE H1. The diamond sharpmaker stones leave an aggressive edge that's about what I'm getting from my 300 grit plate, maybe a touch finer.
u.w. wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:42 pm
So between ViVi, and Joe Calton, I started playing around with "courser" edges last year. I Absolutely Loved the aggression that the 325 grit edge had on any, and every knife I put it on. Continuing to follow ViVi's lead, I stopped by my local HF and grabbed the 4 sided diamond plate sharpener yesterday... Oh wow!
Thank you ViVi for sharing your knowledge, experiences, etc...

u.w.
Glad its working good for you.

For me going from an edge finished with fine sharpmaker rods to the 200-300 grit plates on that harbor freight stone is nearly as dramatic of a difference as going from plain edge to serrated edge.

The way a 200 grit and 2000 grit edge cut is very different. How the cut as they dull is even more different. If I take two identical knives with those finishes and dull them both just past the point of scraping arm hairs, the 200 grit edge will still be very useful while the 2000 grit edge will slip more than cut on certain materials.

The higher polish edges not only took more time to apply, but more time to maintain, because they required more frequent touch ups to perform well.

Anyways, I decided to take the Manix down to 300 grit tonight. Wasn't happy with how it was cutting. I'll give it a full reprofile soon, but needed to photograph the factory bevel some first.

Image
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RustyIron
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

Postby RustyIron » Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:55 pm

For some... me... a highly refined edge reflects my preferred style of artisanship. It displays an attention to detail that is can be seen in a knife edge, a one-of-a-kind engine part that comes off my mill, an air conditioner pulley that I turn on the lathe for my neighbor, or the giant machines that I work on for customers so that I can indulge myself in new Spyderco's and craft beer. If it's not pretty--well then it's just not finished--and I can't be happy.

While I'll often crank out a coarse edge, it doesn't give me much satisfaction. A refined edge is what I find most useful for doing precision cutting work. Although this afternoon, I used a mirrored edge Maxamet to hack down some tall ornamental grass on my hillside to allow more sunlight to reach my San Clemente Island Bush Mallow. Cutting cardboard is great to use as a benchmark for testing, but really, the most cardboard I ever push cut is when I remove the top from a new box of beer.

vivi
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

Postby vivi » Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:10 pm

Been going through my collection and converting all but a few special use knives for low grit edges.

Tonight I did my Street Bowie. 200 grit diamond plate for the bevel at roughly 12dps, then I switched to 300 grit for a roughly 15dps microbevel, then stropped with 7 micron diamond paste twice per side. Hair popping sharp and slices very aggressively.


Image

I've been testing my edges on plastic shopping bags instead of paper lately. They give me a good idea of how refined the apex is by how much effort it takes to initiate a slice into them. Poorly formed edges require holding the bag with tension to help start the cut. Coarse, well apexed edges don't care about that and bite right into it.

Image

On deck I have my M4 Manix XL, S110V Para 3 and Siren, all set to get similar edges.
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vivi
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

Postby vivi » Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:33 pm

Just knocked out the Siren.

Image

Cut into a DMT fine to dull the edge.

Grinded each side on the 200 grit plate until I raised a burr on each side.

Slightly more obtuse angle for three strokes per side on the 300 grit, alternating sides each pass. Edge leading.

Two strokes per side on the strop.

Image

Here's me testing it out on a plastic shopping bag - https://streamable.com/oq9zzf

One more. As soon as something slides across these edges they're cleanly sliced - https://streamable.com/p242lb
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vivi
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

Postby vivi » Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:01 pm

Well this was interesting.

Image

Got the bevel on this S110V Para 3 about 90% reset in under five minutes. I thought it would take a lot longer but it didn't really feel any more time consuming than S30V on this stone.

I'm going to work on it more tomorrow. It needs a bit more grinding to repair some chipping by the plunge line. But I'm pleasantly surprised at how quickly S110V is grinding for me on this stone.

I'm excited to see how it cuts when I'm done. The plan is to finish resetting the bevel and repairing the edge tomorrow, then give it a finished edge and test it out. I want to see how the toothy S110V edge holds up to slicing large quantities of cardboard.

From there I'll probably just touch up the microbevel with a handful of strokes at either 300 or 400 grit, strop, then mail it back to where it belongs. I'll update my Para 3 thread this weekend.
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bbturbodad
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

Postby bbturbodad » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:38 pm

Went from a 1200 grit polished edge to a 240 grit (50/40 micron) on my Watu this afternoon.

Followed with a single pass on each side with the 1200 (3/2 micron) stone as a strop.

Cuts like a saw!
Image
-Turbo

vivi
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

Postby vivi » Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:38 pm

Glad you saw the light :D
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bbturbodad
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

Postby bbturbodad » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:02 am

vivi wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:38 pm
Glad you saw the light :D
Yes between your (and other's) posts and a knife I sharpened earlier in the day, I'll be doing more like this. :)

A guy was here yesterday doing some work on the house, saw that I had my stones out and asked if I could sharpen his knife. It was a small Kershaw (I don't know the model, it had a built in bottle opener and small prybar) with an 8Cr13MoV blade that was about as dull as anything considered a knife could be. I cleaned up the edge with an 80 grit (200/160 micron) stone...Wow did it cut fast! Took about 3 min. Finished it @ 150 grit (100/80 micron) and it was tree topping my arm hairs and cleanly but loudly push cut magazine paper. Start to finish was well under 10 mins...there's something to be said for lower end steels when it comes to ease of maintenance.

I was thinking about getting some higher micron diamond stropping compound but lately I've been using my finer stones as strops and have been happy with the results.
-Turbo

vivi
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

Postby vivi » Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:31 am

I picked up the Harbor Freight 3 piece diamond plate set. Excited to try out the blue 180 grit plate:


Image

I laughed when I saw this:

Image

Guess word spread fast :D There were plenty 4 sided diamond stones last time I was here.
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cabfrank
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

Postby cabfrank » Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:36 pm

A new kind of influencer.

soc_monki
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

Postby soc_monki » Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:21 pm

I remember seeing a video on plates just like that, and they were all very coarse. Unfortunately they were not flat and had to be transferred to mdf backings to keep them flat. They did work pretty well from what I saw. Will be interesting to see what you think!

I like my Sharpal diamond stones. Work well and have held up well so far!
Spyderco : Resilience, Tenacious, Persistence, Manix 2 G10, Para 3 G10, Para 3 LW, Paramilitary 2,
BBS Paramilitary 2, Amalgam, Native Chief, Blade HQ Manix 2 XL, Shaman, Gayle Bradley 2, DLC M4 Shaman, Magnitude
Kershaw : Tone, Thermite, Atmos, Natrix 7007cf, Natrix 7008cf, Bareknuckle 7777, Bareknuckle 20cv, Concierge, 7777CFM390 Bareknuckle
Zero Tolerance : 0566CF, 0770CF, 0770GRYBW, 0562CF, 0470, 0456CF, 0095BW, 0801TI
Ontario : Rat 1
CRKT : Caligo
Civivi : Plethiros, Baklash, Incite, Vexer
Cold Steel : AD10, 4Max Scout, SR1 Lite, SRK
Benchmade : Contego, Crooked River, Custom Crooked River, Super Freek, Mini Crooked River, Custom Mini Crooked River, 940-2, 550-1 Griptilian, 950bk Rift, 940-1, Custom Sheepsfoot Griptilian
Buck : 110, Bucklite 422, 110 LT, 110 Slim Select, 112 Slim Pro, Custom 110, 1978-79 110, 119
Artisan : Tradition
Hogue : Ritter RSK MK1-G2
Kabar : Becker BK2, BK10, Dog's Head, BK7
Hinderer : XM-18, XM-24

vivi
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

Postby vivi » Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:18 pm

soc_monki wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:21 pm
I remember seeing a video on plates just like that, and they were all very coarse. Unfortunately they were not flat and had to be transferred to mdf backings to keep them flat. They did work pretty well from what I saw. Will be interesting to see what you think!

I like my Sharpal diamond stones. Work well and have held up well so far!
The negative reviews I read for the four sided block said they weren't very flat either, but they've been flat enough to put on a nice edge.

I also read the diamond particles come off easily, but they don't seem any worse than my Spyderco diamond rods. Helps using light pressure.

My biggest issue is they're mounted a bit crooked, making sharpening that first bit of edge difficult on certain knives.

For $3 per side I obviously didn't expect perfection, but I'm very happy with the level of quality on the four sided block.

I'll try to check out the plates tonight and post impressions.
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