Community Sharpening Journal

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

The sheer thought of Murray Carter's "3 finger test" for testing sharpness has always had the same effect on me.

Wow this site is bored.

[Pelagic]

The sheer thought of Murray Carter's "3 finger test" for testing sharpness has always had the same effect on me.

Wow this site is bored.

Not really. I know you're really into Murray Carter right now and I don't blame you, he has a lot of good content. After you sharpen lots of different steels for a long enough time I think you'll agree with most of his notions but not all. I hadn't thought about his bizarre method of testing blade sharpness in years, and instantly remembered my initial reaction upon reading the end of the article you posted. The 3 finger test is dangerous and only tests a specific type of cutting ability. It doesn't test sharpness (an extremely finely polished edge won't bite into fingertips readily). Nor does it test for a good rope cutting edge. It tests for the best edge for slicing through a human finger. And it certainly isn't good advice to give a beginner, IMO. You'd think a guy that has made 854,173,594,009,183,322 blades would know better. :D

[Dudemanaz]

The more I read on this the more I understand what a science it truly is. I own several different sharpening systems, a mix of stones, lansky set, and most recently the sharpmaker and strop block.

I've tried to put a fine edge on several knives (non spydies) including a knife that I forged from 5160, and struggled throughout the process.

I have never been able to successfully put on edge on one of my blades that comes close to my first and only spydie (maxamet manix 2) and I suspect this is mostly due to my improper form but also somewhat the steel of my other blades.

Then again, I think it should be possible to get 5160 to hair whittling...

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

Smiles, yep no denying it I am definitely in the Murray Carter camp when it comes to sharpening :) I was just having some fun saying the forum was bored.

Their is some truth in that though....

We are at the end of the year 2019 and this has been a strange Spyderco year with all the new policies and sprints selling out before people can pay. I even had one vendor who shall go unnamed tell me it was Spyderco's fault on a recent Sprint run only shipping them a small amount when they were expecting over 3 times the amount.

Couple that with nothing to look forward to in the year ahead and well quite frankly this community sharpening journal is the most interesting and educational thread going.

Anyhow back on topic.

Just finished up sharpening a Buck 110 in 440C just using the 1000 grit King Stone Mr. Carter sells. One thing I can say is the grit on Japanese water stones is far different from other scale.

I like it, I brought the secondary edge down first, very easy BTW, then did the Primary ending with stropping on the stone. What I wound up with is a very toothy edge which is enjoyable to use so not going to go to the 6000 Grit stone until I have some fun with the 1000 grit finish.

Then I went to town on a large chefs knife from Chicago cutlery. The steel on that knife is very soft but was able to put a toothy primary edge on it that slices thin magazine paper without and issue. Due to the softness of the steel I finished it out with the sharpening steel that came with the knife block she purchased years ago.

I just wish Spyderco had waited to do their Murray Carter Collaboration, can't afford $400.00 plus knives right now and know they are worth it.

BTW I put my brand new Spyderco Smock up against the resharpened Buck they feel almost identical cutting paper, this is as close as I have ever gotten to a Spyderco Factory finish using a cheap 1000 King Stone.

Wow wet stones are awesome.

As for the 3 finger test well I have no problem with it he is right if your thumb is on top as a control your brain will stop you and I assure you the edge will cut rope as well as fingers other meat and bones and vegetables are straight up doomed :) I also agree people new to our love of knives and sharpening are not the right audience for this potentially dangerous way of testing a blade.

My next work will be on the Delica in Cruwear I have a sneaking hunch it will turn out really good.First though I will practice with the rest of the Chicago Cutlery stuff :) that way if I screw it up the replacements will serve a double purpose cause those cheap knives have got to go.

[Pelagic]

The only way to see what cuts rope best (plain edge) is to experiment with many sharpening products, procedures, and grits and cut rope.

The only way to see what cuts cardboard best (PE) is to experiment with many products, procedures, and grits and cut cardboard.

Shaving actually is a true measure of sharpness, because it is pushcutting. The problem is the variation in hair thickness.

Pushcutting newspaper is a GOOD, CONSISTENT relative measurement of SHARPNESS. Out of all the knives you've sharpened, you'll KNOW which one was sharper, because it pushcut newspaper easier, and farther away from where you held the paper (1, 2, 3 inches??).

The problem is sharpness isn't the same as cutting ability, and cutting ability is all relative to what you're cutting.

The first thing I learned about knives when I was 7 or 8 years old was never run your finger along and parallel to the edge of the blade. I remembered this, but then saw many kids do it to test sharpness. As a naive teenager, I once thought they may be onto something, even though I refused to try it. And many years later, I see a guy online claiming to be the last samurai saying run your fingers along the apex of a blade. I've known for about 20 years that it's pure unabridged lunacy. Thumb the blade perpendicularly to the apex to check for bite. Then test on hair or newspaper. No chance of cutting yourself. If those 3 things don't tell you what you need to know (Murray), I don't know what to tell you.

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

Many good points and yes I learned about the finger test when I was oh I guess 4 years old playing with a serrated steak knife running my finger along it, soon the red came out and marvel of marvels I never even felt the cut.

Reckon that was the start of this passion. I respect your opinion but disagree, the 3 finger test is dangerous for some yet remains valid for feedback. Is it the ultimate test no but it does give feedback absent other means.

This ends my discussion on the 3 finger test of sharpness it is up to others to see how their mileage varies, I do not endorse it as there is danger present but do acknowledge it as yet another tool in a toolbox I am still learning and in the future may disclaim it as well.

[Pelagic]

It does remain valid for feedback, I agree.

The difference is I can tell everything I need to know about the apex much sooner and much more safely, while an online shaolin master bladesmith must resort to testing how well it will cut his fingers. Lol.

The guy would take one of Ken Schwartz's 5 million grit edges (literally one of the sharpest blades on the planet) and say "nope, not sharp. It's not digging into my fingers" as if he as no idea as why there's a precise reason for that.

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

I think we are both adult enough to know even with the wisdom given their is more than a fair amount of showmanship going on with the 3 finger test of sharpness and we both Know Mr. Carter is a rather shameless promoter.

Folks just need to apply a good dose of common sense is all.

I will go so far as to say he oversells his lineage from a bygone more primitive time, which the more romantically inclined will eat up like crazy. Then again the results I got tonight are really amazing for a under skilled nobody like me.

So lets just say Mr. Carters promotions are a bit over the top. I for one can spot the Shtick and appreciate it. I know it is rarely the quality of the steak that sells the steak but the sizzle.

Sure the sizzle will sell the steak for everyone but not everyone can keep the steak house open unless the initial sizzle is backed up by a quality meal justifying the sizzle.

Mr. Carter has accomplished this. Spyderco is collaborating with him. Says allot.

[vivi]

Well, back to sharpening....

This was my first attempt at reprofiling a PE knife with the diamond sharpmaker rods.

I wanted to see how fast it was VS my DMT, and figured the narrow rods might work better on the Street Beat since the edge came with some recurve.

My technique must have been off because I hit the apex on the first half of the blade before hitting it on the belly.

The knife has much better geometry now and is sharper too, but I'm gonna have to clean it up on my DMT and even things out better.

[ThomC]

I feel like this thread is the right place to post this :
I am a new member of the Spyderco family of knife enthusiasts, but I've had a medium grit ceramic :spyder: bench stone for a couple of years now.
My knife steels so far have been Opinel's carbon and stainless steels anc 12C27. The stone has worked wonders on these, although upon perusing this thread I'm sure there's more I can add to my tools and my techniques.
I usually give my blades a pass on the stone every week or so, freehanding at 15° and then stropping on the back of my belt.
Now that I've purchased a PM2 in S30V, what can I do differently and (probably) better ? I have plans to buy the fine bench stone and a strop with some compound. Ideally, I just want my knife to be sharp, a mirror edge looks appealing but there are only so many hours in a day available to me.

[Pelagic]

I feel like this thread is the right place to post this :
I am a new member of the Spyderco family of knife enthusiasts, but I've had a medium grit ceramic :spyder: bench stone for a couple of years now.
My knife steels so far have been Opinel's carbon and stainless steels anc 12C27. The stone has worked wonders on these, although upon perusing this thread I'm sure there's more I can add to my tools and my techniques.
I usually give my blades a pass on the stone every week or so, freehanding at 15° and then stropping on the back of my belt.
Now that I've purchased a PM2 in S30V, what can I do differently and (probably) better ? I have plans to buy the fine bench stone and a strop with some compound. Ideally, I just want my knife to be sharp, a mirror edge looks appealing but there are only so many hours in a day available to me.

You may just want to get a sharpmaker, some stropping compound, and maybe a reprofiling stone (OR just get the diamond or CBN rods for the sharpmaker). You can take a piece of an old belt and epoxy it to a small piece of lumber and make a nice strop. I'd recommend leaving it in a vice overnight while the epoxy cures. It's better to strop on a flat surface. If you enjoy freehanding you can go without the sharpmaker (which would come with medium and fine rods), and get another stone or 2. You'd definitely need something coarse like a 200-400 grit plate or stone in diamond, CBN, or SiC. You could get a spyderco fine benchstone also, but the medium is fine enough to me. You can go straight from that medium stone to any strop with no problem and preserve more slicing aggression. I'd only get the fine stone (or UF) if you are really into mirror polishing your edges. There are plenty of ways to sharpen s30v but if you want simplicity and time saved, you may just want to get a sharpmaker, make a strop, and be sure not to let it get too dull until you have some diamond rods for the SM or a reprofiling stone.

[ThomC]

You may just want to get a sharpmaker, some stropping compound, and maybe a reprofiling stone (OR just get the diamond or CBN rods for the sharpmaker). You can take a piece of an old belt and epoxy it to a small piece of lumber and make a nice strop. I'd recommend leaving it in a vice overnight while the epoxy cures. It's better to strop on a flat surface. If you enjoy freehanding you can go without the sharpmaker (which would come with medium and fine rods), and get another stone or 2. You'd definitely need something coarse like a 200-400 grit plate or stone in diamond, CBN, or SiC. You could get a spyderco fine benchstone also, but the medium is fine enough to me. You can go straight from that medium stone to any strop with no problem and preserve more slicing aggression. I'd only get the fine stone (or UF) if you are really into mirror polishing your edges. There are plenty of ways to sharpen s30v but if you want simplicity and time saved, you may just want to get a sharpmaker, make a strop, and be sure not to let it get too dull until you have some diamond rods for the SM or a reprofiling stone.

The Sharpmaker is a tad expensive for me atm especially with the diamond rods : totals at about 150$.
Since I'm not one to let my blades get dull (as I said, at least a few passes on the stone every week), if a coarse single- or double-sided low grit and some compound on a strop is enough, I'll make do. My knife is part of my toolkit, along with woodworking tools.

In your experience, what kind of coarse stone and compound should I look for ? I know a couple of people I might get the materials for a strop for, if not, a knife shop near me might have that.

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

Go back a page or two in this thread where Pelagic and I are discussing stropping compounds their you can find out about compunds and diamond powders all very affordable.

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

Got a chance to test the blade I put on my 440C Buck today tearing down computer boxes from Dell. The blade was toothy and ripped the cardboard up pretty good. Unfortunatly 440C gets to a working edge after just a few boxes which if that was all I cared about it would keep cutting more boxes without an issue but in order to slice telephone paper it had to be sharpened.

I carry a Spyderco Double Stuff with me for touchups and using Murray Carters techniques and his thoughts that when using ceramics one is better off stropping against them I was able to bring the knife back to telephone paper slicing sharpness with just a few passes.

I also paid attention to go tip to heal in sections on the blade then blend the entire length the way Mr. Carter does to set the micro serrations in the correct direction for draw cuts.

Might want to give this a try stropping instead of edge first into ceramics I found it very effective. Oh and yes you need to lightly drag the blade through a piece of soft wood or other similar material to get rid of the bur prior to finishing.

[vivi]

I've never needed anything other than a bench stone to remove a burr. Buck's 440 and other low edge retention steels like AUS6 and PE H1 should make it through more than a couple of boxes before they lose shaving ability.

ThomC, I'd be completely comfortable with your medium Spyderco stone and a DMT Extra Coarse, or XX Coarse, for reprofiling and applying toothier edges.

Mirror polishes look nice but they don't cut any better on most materials than the edge your medium stone is capable of. In fact, on materials like rope and cardboard, that mirror edge would do worse.

More money, time and effort for inferior performance is the dragon many knife nerds are chasing these days.

I'd skip the sharpmaker unless you're into serrated or recurved blades. It's a great tool but it doesn't do anything for plain edged knives a good bench stone and a bit of skill won't.

[ThomC]

ThomC, I'd be completely comfortable with your medium Spyderco stone and a DMT Extra Coarse, or XX Coarse, for reprofiling and applying toothier edges.

Mirror polishes look nice but they don't cut any better on most materials than the edge your medium stone is capable of. In fact, on materials like rope and cardboard, that mirror edge would do worse.

More money, time and effort for inferior performance is the dragon many knife nerds are chasing these days.

I'd skip the sharpmaker unless you're into serrated or recurved blades. It's a great tool but it doesn't do anything for plain edged knives a good bench stone and a bit of skill won't.

Thanks for the advice. I watched your sharpening video from earlier in the thread, and I'll have to try that technique on my knives. You basically make a miracle happen with what many people I know would consider a heresy !
As for stropping, considering the finish I want (actually pretty much what you do in your vid), is there any grain I should avoid or prioritize ?

[vivi]

ThomC, I'd be completely comfortable with your medium Spyderco stone and a DMT Extra Coarse, or XX Coarse, for reprofiling and applying toothier edges.

Mirror polishes look nice but they don't cut any better on most materials than the edge your medium stone is capable of. In fact, on materials like rope and cardboard, that mirror edge would do worse.

More money, time and effort for inferior performance is the dragon many knife nerds are chasing these days.

I'd skip the sharpmaker unless you're into serrated or recurved blades. It's a great tool but it doesn't do anything for plain edged knives a good bench stone and a bit of skill won't.

Thanks for the advice. I watched your sharpening video from earlier in the thread, and I'll have to try that technique on my knives. You basically make a miracle happen with what many people I know would consider a heresy !
As for stropping, considering the finish I want (actually pretty much what you do in your vid), is there any grain I should avoid or prioritize ?

I'm not a good person to ask about stropping since I don't really use them for the sharpening process. I like the edge I get straight off a stone better.

Here's my Street Beat I posted earlier. Evened the bevel up on my DMT X Coarse, then hit the apex with the spyderco medium stone a few passes per side. I can wave it across my arm hair half an inch above the skin and it sticks to them on contact.

[ThomC]

Interestingly enough, I gave my Higonokami a few passes on the medium stone using your technique, and for the first time I have a blade that can shave hair. I'll try that with my other folders, this is fun.
Guess I've found something new to work on, thanks a lot for the advice !

[p_atrick]

Interestingly enough, I gave my Higonokami a few passes on the medium stone using your technique, and for the first time I have a blade that can shave hair. I'll try that with my other folders, this is fun.
Guess I've found something new to work on, thanks a lot for the advice !

I'm glad you found a technique that resonates with you. That is the most important thing. We all have differing opinions about which technique is best, but none of that really matters. If you are getting good results with Vivi's method, use that. Once you get good with this technique you'll start to experiment and find what works best for you. As for tools, it won't really matter because your technique is good.

EDIT: Maybe one tool to consider getting is a loupe. My technique is slowly getting better, but I'm sure a loupe would give me better feedback on my technique.

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

Today I noticed my Spyderco Smock in S30V Had lost it’s factory crisp edge.

Without wetting the 1000 Grit King stone Idecided to make a few stropping passes Murray Carter Style using the Vivi style of extreme light pressure.

Surprisingly this brought the primary edge right back to toothy phone book paper slicing sharpness.

You know I have to say after using 440C allot over the last month or so I am gaining a whole new level of respect for S30V.