Community Sharpening Journal

[WilliamMunny]

Has anyone used these? I’m also thinking about getting some spyderco cbn and ceramic stones what would y’all recommend and where should I buy from? https://www.gritomatic.com/collections/ ... ed-diamond

I just got the Spyderco CBN rods and they work great. Not sure about their CBN stones but they are nice and big.

[kennethsime]

Has anyone used these? I’m also thinking about getting some spyderco cbn and ceramic stones what would y’all recommend and where should I buy from? https://www.gritomatic.com/collections/ ... ed-diamond

I can't speak to those Columbia Gorge stones, but I really enjoy Spyderco's ceramic stones. I'm still getting used to CBN, but it sure does cut quickly.

My favorite vendor is DLT Trading. Great selection,, fast shipping, fair prices, and a nice, easy-to-use rewards system. Can't be beat in my book!

[harpo1]

Columbia Gorge are great stones. If you decide to get some get them directly from Golubia Gorge's website. Great people as well.

[Bemo]

I bought a few and once they're dressed they work well and I like them. I bought several directly from the website and one from Gritomatic. Columbia Gorge Stoneworks is really a husband and wife operation. Pleasant fellow to deal with. Since he does manufacture a specific size stone for a large guided sharpening system manufacturer there are some sizes he won't sell from his shop.

[vivi]

those seem reasonably priced. might try them out. still rocking plated diamond stones myself, been happy with them for 20ish years but it's fun trying new stones.

[Ramonade]

This is a very very controversial statement.
I drew a small picture, this is a type of abrasive stone, depending on the depth of immersion of an abrasive into the matrix.
For comparison, I suggested that the density on the surface of the abrasive is the same in all stones
I do not know what you mean by the word - effectiveness. But the following logic (The grit stays the same, cut as efficiently same, difference in how deep), the best stone will be the one whose abrasive will be deepened to maximum depth (Perhaps even the one from which the abrasive will not stick out? ). Since the effectiveness does not depend on the depth of the adjustment. And the scratches from abrasive will be less, the more abrasive is immersed in the matrix.
[picture]
Do not you think that what is wrong here?
If I misunderstood you, please draw you as you imagine these two cases.

I see what you're saying, but I was trying (and apparently failing) to explain what Shawn/BBB/dedboxhero said :

Yeah, that will work, I'll give some other options as well if I may.

There are bonded diamond and cBN stones that are not electroplated to a surface, they are like a traditional sharpening stone with abrasive throughout the thickness of the "stone" except they are using super abrasive with exotic bonding types to take advantage of the longer-lasting, more expensive abrasive grains.

This does three things, it increases the longevity of the "stone" over a electroplated diamond stone and it also reduces the surface roughness since the abrasive is not so exposed and digging deeper into the steel lastly the abrasive is also better supported and not as prone to breaking and sheering off in use.

Here is a really important detail that nobody to discusses often enough.

The advantage of not having deeper scratches is you will have less stress risers for the given grit meaning you will notice higher stability of the edge.

A 400 grit atoma diamond and a 400grit metallic bonded Poltava will leave completely different surface roughnesses, the deeper scratches from the atoma will make the edge less stable and more prone to damage then the smoother scratches from the bonded stone at the same size grit

The bonded stones do cost more but they last longer and the performance of the end result is better.

Lastly, for finishing edges I recommend diamond or cBN compounds these will help finish the edge nicely without over polishing like some of the softer compounds can do.

He explained it quite clearly to me, but since my attempt to clarify wasn't good, I won't go any further. I made a paint drawing that was quite terrible for an half hour of work, and my very long message wasn't to my liking either.

(I moved the discussion, Shawn might answer you anyways, The original recipient of your questions will of course be the best guy to reply to these)

[JRinFL]

There is good sharpening talk in this thread beginning at around page 16 or so. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=93404&start=300

Added so searchers in the future will be able to find it more easily.

[JRinFL]

I tried, and mostly succeeded, in thinning the edge on my AEB-L Urban. Unfortunately, I attempted to use my KME at angle far too low for it to handle, even with the flipped bar guide. Wasted a lot of time trying to do that with much reduced stone travel due to interference with the clamp. I had to finish by hand which is not my best skill. So back bevel is about 12º and the edge is somewhere between 14º & 15º. Next time I sharpen it, I'll reset using the 15º angle on the KME. Should clean up the mess I made. BTW, the factory edge was really bad with varying angles from heel to tip.

[Josh Crutchley]

The hardest silicon carbide is 2400-2600 vickers but sharpening stones could use softer grades. Where as vanadium carbide is 2800-3000 vickers. CBN comes close to 5000 vickers. So with those values known why choose SiC over diamond and cBN?

A few of my theses.
1. The hardness of silicon carbide is sufficient for comfortable and rapid processing of high vanadium steels. This is the main thing. For a regular cycling ride, it is not necessary to buy a bicycle with a carbon frame. This is a matter of the necessary minimum.

2. In addition to the hardness of abrasive, the shape of the abrasive is important. No matter how hard the abrasive is if it has become round, without sharp parts, it will not work.Compare the work on the wood of the file and the smooth metal plate of the same hardness.

The abrasive cuts the metal not with hardness, but the shape of the grain. The stronger the abrasive, usually, the longer the grain retains its shape.
The abrasive is blunting during work.
Diamond powder is much more expensive than silicon carbide. Silicon carbide should not be used economically. When silicon carbide grains are just starting to smooth them out and work with new sharp grains.
Why work with one blunt knife if you have 10 spare ones? You will replace the blunt blade when it becomes uncomfortable.

3. You drag not just a type of abrasive, but a stone. A stone is a combination of the amount of abrasive and the speed of its update.
I will also remind you that it is not worth forgetting about the concentration of an abrasive in the stones.

There are many subtleties and other things. And we must consider specific stones.
I wanted to show that diamond is not a single abrasive that is suitable for sharpening high vanadium steels.

Just the original statement seemed to me too categorical, so I considered it an alternative to offer.

Well it seems I'm wrong when it comes to silicon carbide being able to cut the vanadium carbides in blade steel. Science of Sharp has some good pictures of carbides in K390 and Maxamet being cut by silicon carbide. Might pick up a Norton Crystolon and give it a try.

It has me thinking about a few things like how do we know how hard vanadium carbides are in the finished blade? Also how pure are they in different steels and how much does that affect their hardness?

[Ramonade]

I'm pretty happy with reaching that level of sharp on VG10 recently.
I've used the work sharp precision adjust to reprofile to 16.5 dps, with venev Cerberus Dog stones. After the F800, I did the F1200 and F1500 by hand.



I am not often able to do this. Practice is all I can do to better my skills

[Librarian]

Well it seems I'm wrong when it comes to silicon carbide being able to cut the vanadium carbides in blade steel. Science of Sharp has some good pictures of carbides in K390 and Maxamet being cut by silicon carbide. Might pick up a Norton Crystolon and give it a try.

It has me thinking about a few things like how do we know how hard vanadium carbides are in the finished blade? Also how pure are they in different steels and how much does that affect their hardness?

Exactly, I haven’t read it for a long time Science of Sharp , there really is about silicon carbide.

The knife was sharpened again, this time on a Shapton Pro 320, freehand at about 33 degrees inclusive. A much smaller burr results, as compared with the diamond plate, with cleanly abraded carbides at the bevel surface. This small burr could not be detected by traditional methods.

The knife was sharpened again, this time on a Sigma Power Select II 240 grit stone at around 31 degrees inclusive angle. Once again, a relatively small burr is formed, and one that is not detectable by traditional methods. The sharper abrasives and the presence of loose particles in the mud likely minimize the burr formation as compared to the diamond plate.
https://scienceofsharp.com/2021/09/14/carbides-in-k390/

I hope you condition the surface of the stone. Because it is a hard stone (Norton Crystolon), and the grain of silicon carbide, although hard, is brittle and the stone can be smoothed out. This is usually done with silicon carbide powder.

I think this information can be found in specialized literature.

I also think you will be curious to watch this video of Cliff.

This video does not fit so much for your questions, but it is also very interesting

[olywa]

Wondering if any of you have tried these Idahone rods that fit the Sharpmaker? They come in 3 grits and I'm thinking about giving the coarse (100-200 grit) a go. They are reasonably priced and I've had a good experience with one of their 10" round hones on my kitchen knives.

https://idahoners.com/collections/acces ... cement-rod

[Ramonade]

Wondering if any of you have tried these Idahone rods that fit the Sharpmaker? They come in 3 grits and I'm thinking about giving the coarse (100-200 grit) a go. They are reasonably priced and I've had a good experience with one of their 10" round hones on my kitchen knives.

https://idahoners.com/collections/acces ... cement-rod

The coarse grit certainly is interesting at that price. I'll see if they accept to ship to France, might be a fun experience to try these.

[olywa]

Just pulled the trigger on two of the coarse rods. I'm interested in seeing how well they hold up. Their round ceramic honing rod that I've been using in my kitchen for years is fine grain and shows no signs of wear. But I have no experience with 100-200 grit ceramic, only diamond. We shall see.

[WilliamMunny]

How is the Spyderco CBN Benchstone 306CBN, it has course 400 / fine 800 8"x3"? I want to get more into free hand sharpening and wanted to get a decent, sub $100, stone I can use for any steel but that would also work on harder steels like 15v, S90V, Maxamet, etc. Or maybe even a set of 2 or 3 for $100ish if that is possible.

Is this a decent stone to get, is it bonded, is there another sub $100 stone that would be better?

Currently I do have Sharpmaker with CBN rods for touchups, 2 King Whet stones I use for chisels, and a hand full of smaller (6"x1") Worksharp diamond plates. Just looking for something bigger and better for free hand. As a note I am good enough using the small Worksharp diamond plates to be able to sharpen a knife to cut paper towels fairly well.

[Librarian]

2 King Whet stones I use for chisels

What is the grain size of these stones?
What model?
Why don't you use these stones?
I had a king 800 grit. This is a great stone. I sharpened both k390 and zdp-189 on it.

Maybe you don't like to deliver dirt and that's why you like working with diamonds more?
I read in the thread above that you don't want to spend a lot of money on sharpening stones. Why don't you just buy Chinese electroplated diamond plates (DMD) from Aliexpress for $5 each? This is a working tool and will be no worse than spyderco plates.
For example, with the help of a 1000 grit plate, I did a regrind Spyderco Sub-Hilt

[WilliamMunny]

2 King Whet stones I use for chisels

What is the grain size of these stones?
What model?
Why don't you use these stones?
I had a king 800 grit. This is a great stone. I sharpened both k390 and zdp-189 on it.
IMG_20190728_200422.jpgIMG_20190728_123815.jpg
Maybe you don't like to deliver dirt and that's why you like working with diamonds more?
I read in the thread above that you don't want to spend a lot of money on sharpening stones. Why don't you just buy Chinese electroplated diamond plates (DMD) from Aliexpress for $5 each? This is a working tool and will be no worse than spyderco plates.

I have the KING KW65 1000/6000, it has a different grit on each side. It works well for my chisel set but it was my understanding that harder steels needed Diamond or CBN to "cut" the steel otherwise you could be there all day with them.

My Worksharp plates are basic electroplated diamond plates (220, 320, 600 and 800grit). They work great but was looking for a larger/better stone as the Worksharp plates are around 1.25"x6". I did not know if the Spyderco CBN Benchstone would be good or if there was something better for $100.

I did not think $100 for a single stone was too little to spend or am I wrong?

[Librarian]

I have the KING KW65 1000/6000, it has a different grit on each side. It works well for my chisel set but it was my understanding that harder steels needed Diamond or CBN to "cut" the steel otherwise you could be there all day with them.

As I understand it, you still don't have knives with these "evil steels"?
The problem with these steels is usually fine polishing, but not with rough stones.
I think you should buy knives first and try to sharpen them on what you have. So that there is no disappointment from the money spent.
Again, spiderco stone is a rough stone and you won't really use it much.
1000 king is also a good stone. For example, I can recommend you this video.

On it, a knife made of cpm m4 steel is sharpened on this stone, this is certainly not super-duper steel, but also not bad.

If I understand correctly, do you have CBN spiderco rods? Together with the King 1000/6000, they can make a good pair for sharpening. I recommend you check out this video. Spyderco Endura HAP40.

If you can spend that much money on a stone, that's good. Just don't expect to see much of a difference between your diamonds.

[WilliamMunny]

I have the KING KW65 1000/6000, it has a different grit on each side. It works well for my chisel set but it was my understanding that harder steels needed Diamond or CBN to "cut" the steel otherwise you could be there all day with them.

As I understand it, you still don't have knives with these "evil steels"?
The problem with these steels is usually fine polishing, but not with rough stones.
I think you should buy knives first and try to sharpen them on what you have. So that there is no disappointment from the money spent.
Again, spiderco stone is a rough stone and you won't really use it much.
1000 king is also a good stone. For example, I can recommend you this video.

On it, a knife made of cpm m4 steel is sharpened on this stone, this is certainly not super-duper steel, but also not bad.

If I understand correctly, do you have CBN spiderco rods? Together with the King 1000/6000, they can make a good pair for sharpening. I recommend you check out this video. Spyderco Endura HAP40.

If you can spend that much money on a stone, that's good. Just don't expect to see much of a difference between your diamonds.

Awesome, thanks for the advice. I might just wait and see what my current stones can do. I just get frustrated with my 1.25" Worksharp stones as the tip of my knife will occasionally come off the edge. But they do cut S30V without an issue. I don't have an evil knife steel yet but with any luck I will get the BBB Manix and if not, I will probably buy something in K390 or 10v. I just wanted to make sure I could sharpen one of these evil steels before I got it.

[R100]

I mainly use DMT diamond bench stones. Whether or not I need them for S110V, S90V, K390 and ZDP-189 they sure do make it easy.

Dan