Community Sharpening Journal

[Steeltoez83]

Recently put a 1k super vitrified diamond edge on my 10V pm2. Its probably been over a year since ive taken any of my pm2s to a 1k finish or higher. Should be fun using this edge up and witnessing how the apex declines thru use.

[olywa]

Broke out the 10x4 DMT DuoSharp plate this morning and put a 220 grit edge on my PE Rock Jumper. Finished it with a couple of light edge bevel strokes on the sharp edge of the Goldenstone. It didn't take long at all and I'm looking forward to seeing how VG-10 performs with a coarse edge. Still parts thin notepad paper like a dream, just makes a little more noise while doing so.

While I was at it I also put a 220 grit edge on my Esee 3HM and PR4. These are a couple of my favorite outdoor bangin' around knives, pretty much indestructible. I love the toughness of 1095 and how easy it is to maintain an edge, but always wish it would hold an edge longer. The 1095 took to the coarse stone like a duck to water. I'm looking forward to putting these to work.

[RustyIron]

I've been carrying the DLT Exclusive Cruwear PM2 off-and-on for about a week now. Out of the box it was nice, so I used the knife as it came from the factory. By this evening, the edge no longer put a smile on my face, so I got out my Edge Pro and opened up my Box 'O Stones.

Almost all my blades are sharpened to 26 degrees. It's not as if 26 is any magic number, but if I always use the same angle, I don't have to remember anything or keep notes. That's the angle I settled on a long time ago, so I stick with it unless there's a good reason not to.

Going from Spyderco's 30 (I think what's what comes from the factory) to my 26 requires the removal of a bit of material. For quickly hogging off a lot of material, I started with a 140 grit plain-wrap diamond plate. It moves a lot of material, but it's cruel to the edge. As soon as it created a giant burr, I bumped it down to a 400 grit plain-wrap plate, and cleaned up the edge as best I could.

Now that the edge was close, it was time to get serious. I switched to a 250 grit Edge Pro diamond matrix stone. These stones are NICE. If you're a freehander or need some other configuration, they're made by Columbia Gorge Stoneworks. Google 'em.

I hamfisted it a little bit with the 250 diamond matrix, and then got gentle with it. REALLY quickly I got it to cut half-hairs off of my arm. That's good enough for me. After that, I gave a couple stropping passes at about 28 degrees with a stick that used to have some 40 micron paste on it. I'm not sure it does much, but I did it anyway.

Most of the time, I like leaving edges coarse. On some cutting jobs, it doesn't make much difference. On others, it does. Last night I had artichokes for dinner. Cutting an artichoke stem with a coarsely sharpened knife is nice. It's similar with banana stems/skins, and the outside layers of onions.

Check out the accompanying pictures. The first one is the unused factory edge, just for reference. You can see how it's micro beveled. The second pic is my sharpening job. Getting the light and focus just right is difficult. You can't see the stropping in this light, but you can clearly see the coarse edge.

[Ramonade]

Nice job ! The second photo is tripping, almost making me believe that the edge bevel is hollow ! really clean job. The microbevel on that knife was pretty big !

BTW, I found the best grit chart, a thing I've always needed. I usually go on a search engine and use whatever jeweler chart I find, but it's not really accurate or complete. Gritomatic has a grit chart that I can't link.
Go on any of their Venev 6" stones for example, and in the deatils of the stone, there is a little icon titled "Grit Chart". Clic on it and you'll find heaven !

Here is part of it I snapped :

[Airlsee]

I've got this chart on my fridge...LOL!

[RustyIron]

Nice job ! The second photo is tripping, almost making me believe that the edge bevel is hollow ! really clean job.

Thanks. Distortion of the photo is an effect from the lens on my microscope.

The grit chart is interesting. Another quality of a stone that I think is important, but which I've never seen described, is how far the abrasive particles sit above the substrate. For instance, the diamond particles sit very high atop the Plain Wrap diamond plates. They cut quickly and gouge deeply. On my CGSW stones, the diamond particles are surrounded by a resin matrix, so they don't sit as tall. They cut slower and more evenly. Anyway, I have no real knowledge of what's going on; it's just what I've experienced in the way they cut, and what I think is the cause. The way a stone cuts is a consideration when I pull one out of the box.

[Ramonade]

Nice job ! The second photo is tripping, almost making me believe that the edge bevel is hollow ! really clean job.

Thanks. Distortion of the photo is an effect from the lens on my microscope.

The grit chart is interesting. Another quality of a stone that I think is important, but which I've never seen described, is how far the abrasive particles sit above the substrate. For instance, the diamond particles sit very high atop the Plain Wrap diamond plates. They cut quickly and gouge deeply. On my CGSW stones, the diamond particles are surrounded by a resin matrix, so they don't sit as tall. They cut slower and more evenly. Anyway, I have no real knowledge of what's going on; it's just what I've experienced in the way they cut, and what I think is the cause. The way a stone cuts is a consideration when I pull one out of the box.

I noticed this too, today I reprofiled my Chokwe. The edge needed it and the factory edge was uneven on the same side of the blade, sometimes at 13dps around the heel, then a bit more obtuse like 22°, and the other side had similar irregularities.
I took my F80 venevresin bonded diamond stone to try and do this fast. After more than half an hour on the work sharp PA, I saw that the stone only did 1/4 of the job. I took the 220 plate from work sharp, used an angle finder cube to match the exact same angle and went to work. I managed to finish the reprofiling job in another half hour !

And F80 is supposed to be coarser than 220. So I'll join you on that observation. There is another variable with these bonded stones though. I saw that venev stones can have either 25, 50 or 100% concentration. I'm pretty sure "100% OCB" cut way faster.
I made a post note and stuck it on my monitor, this is definitely my first purchase of june.

[RustyIron]

There is another variable with these bonded stones though. I saw that venev stones can have either 25, 50 or 100% concentration. I'm pretty sure "100% OCB" cut way faster.

It would stand to reason that a higher density would cut better. CGSW claims to use only diamonds, with no other filler or abrasives in their recipe.

I have some pretty fine diamond emulsion that I sometimes use when I'm really looking for a fine edge. It's great, but it's expensive. I wanted to try something coarser, but didn't want to spend a lot. The stuff I got seemed to have no effect on the blades. At first it was puzzling, but eventually I concluded that the shyster who made it must have sprinkled a pinch of diamond powder into a bucket of grease.

I probably have enough emulsion and paste to last me the rest of my life, but if I ever get an idea that I need more, I think I'll buy diamond lapping powder and make my own.

[Ramonade]

I've found that, even if it takes some time, the Venev dog series I'm using when reprofiling and giving a polished edge to my knife (F80 to F1200, around 8000 for DMT, or J6000) do provides an really precise thin edge. Sometimes, fast abrasives like I have on my DMT plates do bring an edge really fast, but it is not that uniform right at the apex.
I'm not mentionning scratch patterns here, cause It's all about the ghost hunting for me !

I tried many diamond pastes, and only one diamond spray. The diamond spray is what I use the most : A DMT Diaspray 0.5 micron. I only do one pass on each sides and it works really nicely.
However, I am going to try others emulsions later on ! In Europe, it's hard to find anything but "Jende emulsions", wich are diamond emulsions destined to be used with Jende's "official" strops. This is what stopped me from buying some to try, I don't know how it is supposed to work.

[z1r]

Ok, my first real knife sharpening post other than the day I touched up my K390 Endela after cutting up enough carboard to fill a 96 gallon trashcan.

So, I made a Low Country Boil for the Family on Saturday at my Mother In Law's house. I brought over all the ingredients and my cooker only to discover she had no knives with anything resembling an edge. Out came the Endela, sausage, onions, no problem. Cutting the corn on the cob in half, no biggie either. Only issue was that the only cutting board around was one of those glass types. I found out later that glass cutting boards are great for rolling edges. For the first time ever, my Endela wouldn't cut paper. Out came the Sharpmaker and brown rods and it's back to its slicey goodness! There is one very small chip that will work its way out in the next sharpening. I didn't have my loupe on hand when I removed the rolled edge. Probably would have shocked me. But I can see the vestiges of that small chip. When I think of how hard the knife's edge was hitting the cutting board, I'm impressed with the steel's performance.

[metaphoricalsimile]

Ok, my first real knife sharpening post other than the day I touched up my K390 Endela after cutting up enough carboard to fill a 96 gallon trashcan.

So, I made a Low Country Boil for the Family on Saturday at my Mother In Law's house. I brought over all the ingredients and my cooker only to discover she had no knives with anything resembling an edge. Out came the Endela, sausage, onions, no problem. Cutting the corn on the cob in half, no biggie either. Only issue was that the only cutting board around was one of those glass types. I found out later that glass cutting boards are great for rolling edges. For the first time ever, my Endela wouldn't cut paper. Out came the Sharpmaker and brown rods and it's back to its slicey goodness! There is one very small chip that will work its way out in the next sharpening. I didn't have my loupe on hand when I removed the rolled edge. Probably would have shocked me. But I can see the vestiges of that small chip. When I think of how hard the knife's edge was hitting the cutting board, I'm impressed with the steel's performance.

Glass "cutting boards" are supposed to be for serving food, and like, maybe cutting cheese with a cheese knife. It pains me to think of how "normal" people treat knives. Honestly surprised even a K390 knife held up that well with such abuse. Good testimonial for the edge stability of K390 tbh.

[skeeg11]

Ouchie! Ouchie! Ouchie! No wonder there's no sharp knives in her household. Endgrain butcher blocks or cutting boards are one of the best things you can do for your kitchen knives. They also make good Mother's (Mother-in-law) Day gifts.

[z1r]

Honestly surprised even a K390 knife held up that well with such abuse. Good testimonial for the edge stability of K390 tbh.

So was I. Truth be told, I'm still new to "high end" steels and have heard how chippy many can be. So, I was pleasantly surprised to find the edge had only rolled and that the chips were very minimal. More importantly, I was VERY pleased with how little effort it took to restore the edge. Loving my K390 Endela even more. Cutting through corn cobs has probably been the most abuse I've subjected the knife to, not withstanding beating the edge into that cutting board!

Anyway, thanks for listening.

[z1r]

Ouchie! Ouchie! Ouchie! No wonder there's no sharp knives in her household. Endgrain butcher blocks or cutting boards are one of the best things you can do for your kitchen knives. They also make good Mother's (Mother-in-law) Day gifts.

You know, you are right! I'll keep that in mind! Plus, like I did for my Mom, I'll sharpen all those dull tools. Good practice.

[Wandering_About]

The existence of glass "cutting boards" is a burden upon my soul.

[ncrockclimb]

This thread is simply a Master Class in sharpening. Thank you to all that have contributed! The lessons I have learned while reading this thread from beginning to end have taken my sharpening to another level.

I have been experimenting with 2 aspects of sharpening: lower dps and coarser edges. Because of this thread, my new preferred edge comes from the KME 300 grit diamonds and a +/- 12 dps edge.

The one thing I would share is my burr removal technique. I have only seen this mentioned a few times here. I have found it to be the most consistently reliable method for removing a burr. Since I have been doing this, burrs have not been an issue AT ALL.

After making sure i have fully apexed the edge and develop a burr, I pull a dowel perpendicularly across the blade to fold down the burr. I then do a few blade forward strokes and repeat for the other side. I finish with a few blade forward strokes per side with VERY light pressure. I finally use a strop with 1 micron or .5 micron diamond paste.

The resulting edge is both able to shave hair off my arm while retaining some “toothiness.”

Here is a video of the burr removal with the dowel. It starts at 3:40.

https://youtu.be/l2ynSDYEUYI&t=865s

[Ramonade]

Only steels I've tested that resist to glass and ceramic plates is LC200N and maybe 14C28N ! Granted I have not had the chance to test all the 3, 4 and 10V and CPM Cru-Wear yet.

I've ordered some new venev stones with "OCB 100%", meaning the diamond concentration is supposedly 4x the one I have on the venev Dog series. I'm pretty impatient to test those.

I've posted a thread on the Mule Team subforum about the RWL34 mule. I recently managed to get one. It was still on the factory edge, but this one was rolled 3/4 of the length (not stroppable at all), dulled on the rest and the very tip of the blade was broken.

After reprofiling the blade to 15 dps and finally hitting the apex , I noticed a different feedback than usual when formig the burr. The burr was breaking as fast as it was forming, taking bits of the edge with it. Someone replied that some factory edges can be really chippy. I was a bit baffled cause everyone says that, but I've yet had to encounter it on any Spyderco blade. Only chipping that ever occurred for me was during my first S110V sharpening, and since then I've been able to sharpen it no problem, Maxamet too.

I've managed to "power" through it, and ended up using my DMT plates to finish it freehand. I was wondering if my venev stones or the stones on the worksharp precision adjust got contaminated with something (a bit of SiC, or anything really). I4ve yet to see that by using the system on something else (I mostly use it for reprofile jobs, I sharpen by hand cause I can keep it flat when it doesn't take 1 hour xD).

I might add, about burr removal and all : If I went too far in grit and lost some "bite" to my edge, I admit to sometimes bringing it back to what I feel is the most grabby edge possible. K390 can take a 5k edge no problem while still having incredible bite.

[Wandering_About]

With that big of a roll, I'd say that the flexing of the metal at the edge caused fatigue/stress within the steel, making it weaker at the edge. Not a big surprise that when it was worked further during sharpening, you found that the steel would chip. The way to get through it is to grind past the affected steel to fresh steel. If I recall, Cliff Stamp referred to this as "de-stressing" the edge, and he advocated just grinding back the edge with the knife at 90 degrees to the stone. That can be more than what's really needed, but if the edge is in bad enough condition it can be something to try.

There of course could be other issues going on, but with an edge with that kind of damage to the steel, I'd assume issues with the steel before anything else.

Also, the venev stones will load up much more quickly than a DMT. That's part of why DMT stones are quite effective at reprofiling. There are benefits and drawbacks to each type of stone, even though they both have diamond abrasive.

[Ramonade]

With that big of a roll, I'd say that the flexing of the metal at the edge caused fatigue/stress within the steel, making it weaker at the edge. Not a big surprise that when it was worked further during sharpening, you found that the steel would chip. The way to get through it is to grind past the affected steel to fresh steel. If I recall, Cliff Stamp referred to this as "de-stressing" the edge, and he advocated just grinding back the edge with the knife at 90 degrees to the stone. That can be more than what's really needed, but if the edge is in bad enough condition it can be something to try.

There of course could be other issues going on, but with an edge with that kind of damage to the steel, I'd assume issues with the steel before anything else.

Also, the venev stones will load up much more quickly than a DMT. That's part of why DMT stones are quite effective at reprofiling. There are benefits and drawbacks to each type of stone, even though they both have diamond abrasive.

Yeah, I think that I made the error of thunking that once I apexed the knife, i had remove enough steel. Maybe on the top of the bevel, but the apex merely had anything removed.
The venev stones coupled to the WS PA work pretty well. And since the stone doesnt drink the water, the steel stays in suspension in the water and you can "throw" most of it.
However, DMT plates have all the abrasives on the surface, this makes for a way longer period without needing to remove the build-up, indeed!

Im still impatient about the new Venev stones, since they might get difficult to procure sooner than later. Ive heard that their facility had been hit one or two months ago...

[Soanso McMasters]

20CV Wharncliffe Delica on DMT bench stones at coarse, fine, extra fine. Followed up with strops at 4/2/1/.5 micron diamond. Nice reflective polish and wave cutting receipt paper.