Community Sharpening Journal

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
vivi
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

#1321

Post by vivi »

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Had to try some wavy receipt cuts too. I think the receipt being folded up messed me up a bit.

Old beater Pacific 1 that didn't have the cleanest edge. Evened it out on a 200 grit diamond stone then polished it all the way up to 300 grit.

Wouldn't shave my face with it, but it can scrape shave arm hair - https://streamlala.com/ESsBO/
:unicorn
metaphoricalsimile
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

#1322

Post by metaphoricalsimile »

ncrockclimb wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 2:55 pm

The one thing I would share is my burr removal technique. I have only seen this mentioned a few times here. I have found it to be the most consistently reliable method for removing a burr. Since I have been doing this, burrs have not been an issue AT ALL.

After making sure i have fully apexed the edge and develop a burr, I pull a dowel perpendicularly across the blade to fold down the burr. I then do a few blade forward strokes and repeat for the other side. I finish with a few blade forward strokes per side with VERY light pressure. I finally use a strop with 1 micron or .5 micron diamond paste.

The resulting edge is both able to shave hair off my arm while retaining some “toothiness.”

Here is a video of the burr removal with the dowel. It starts at 3:40.

https://youtu.be/l2ynSDYEUYI&t=865s
Super interesting technique! It looks pretty fullproof even for tough-to-deburr steels. I'm going to give this a go.
bjz
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

#1323

Post by bjz »

metaphoricalsimile wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 10:38 am
ncrockclimb wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 2:55 pm

The one thing I would share is my burr removal technique. I have only seen this mentioned a few times here. I have found it to be the most consistently reliable method for removing a burr. Since I have been doing this, burrs have not been an issue AT ALL.

After making sure i have fully apexed the edge and develop a burr, I pull a dowel perpendicularly across the blade to fold down the burr. I then do a few blade forward strokes and repeat for the other side. I finish with a few blade forward strokes per side with VERY light pressure. I finally use a strop with 1 micron or .5 micron diamond paste.

The resulting edge is both able to shave hair off my arm while retaining some “toothiness.”

Here is a video of the burr removal with the dowel. It starts at 3:40.

https://youtu.be/l2ynSDYEUYI&t=865s
Super interesting technique! It looks pretty fullproof even for tough-to-deburr steels. I'm going to give this a go.
Interesting indeed! Over the last year or so, as my skills improve, I’ve found that if I’m careful about alternating sides on the stones/plates/rods/whatever, with light pressure and regular inspection with a loupe as I approach a clean apex, I’ve been able to keep burr formation to a minimum. What is left there can often be removed by running the edge through some cork (I may or may not have too many wine bottle corks kicking around).

If I ever run into a really stubborn burr though, this might very well be worth a try! Perhaps not effective at higher grit refinement? Not a big deal to me as I rarely go beyond 400 grit these days.

Thanks ncrockclimb for another potential tool in the kit!
ncrockclimb
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

#1324

Post by ncrockclimb »

bjz wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 11:53 am

Interesting indeed! Over the last year or so, as my skills improve, I’ve found that if I’m careful about alternating sides on the stones/plates/rods/whatever, with light pressure and regular inspection with a loupe as I approach a clean apex, I’ve been able to keep burr formation to a minimum. What is left there can often be removed by running the edge through some cork (I may or may not have too many wine bottle corks kicking around).

If I ever run into a really stubborn burr though, this might very well be worth a try! Perhaps not effective at higher grit refinement? Not a big deal to me as I rarely go beyond 400 grit these days.

Thanks ncrockclimb for another potential tool in the kit!
Great point about not working as well on higher grit / more refined edges. I have not combined this technique with a polished edge. I also use the cork or soft wood technique as a final step. I have also used a felt cube I purchased from Chef Knives To Go as a final step in edge finishing. It seems to work fine with "toothy" or polished edges.
bjz
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

#1325

Post by bjz »

Cktg is what got me started down the decent knife/sharpening road!

In the past Mark had stated to me that stropping was his “not so secret” secret to keeping knives sharp. Personally, I’ve never found much improvement or overall benefit from stropping (I’ve been using a 5micron paste on balsa and 1micron on leather…understandably underwhelming, but it’s what I’ve got at the moment), BUT I’ve found Vivi’s “burr detection” strop method to be tremendously useful. I had to figure out that I was using way too much paste before it worked, but now if the loupe pr my fingernail have me scratching my head, the strop method identifies any remaining burr or odd edge deformity pretty definitively for me.

Tools in the kit!!!
ncrockclimb
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

#1326

Post by ncrockclimb »

bjz wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 2:08 pm
...Vivi’s “burr detection” strop method...
Where does Vivi talk about this? Can you explain? Thanks!!
vivi
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

#1327

Post by vivi »

ncrockclimb wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 2:19 pm
bjz wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 2:08 pm
...Vivi’s “burr detection” strop method...
Where does Vivi talk about this? Can you explain? Thanks!!
I use strops to detect burrs rather than remove them.

If you strop a knife with a decent sized burr, the side with the burr scrapes off a lot more compound.

For example if I stropped the Pacific Salt I posted above, the presentation side would look normal but the back side would have lots of compound along the edge. When I posted those pictures I realized the back side has a pretty bad burr I managed to miss.

Sometimes I'll have an edge pass the eye test and thumb test, but the strop reveals a burr I didn't detect.

Getting a good edge is all about minimizing burr formation once you're positive the angle you're using it creating a clean apex.
:unicorn
bjz
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

#1328

Post by bjz »

Continuing the conversation, it’s time for todays installment of “the edge is a ghost”…until
It’s not.

Having the loupe and strop out, I decided to take a closer look at my bd1 alcyone. When I purchased this knife earlier this spring, the bevels were a bit uneven, but we’re generally pretty close to the 15/30 degree slots in my sharpmaker so I decided to even things out with my also new Diamond rods. For whatever reason I couldn’t quite get a crisp edge apex and just attributed it to new diamomd rods I hadn’t learned how to use yet. It was plenty sharp for a bunch of days of cardboard breakdown and prob 15 of general home edc use.

Fast forward to this afternoon. The strop didn’t indicate burr presence nor did my thumb, BUT the three-finger test wasn’t nice and sticky, and it wouldn’t scrape shave (keep in mind that it still cut things pretty darned well). I applied sharpie hit the brown rods at 15/30. Well darn if the very edge stayed black as well as a thin line of black down the MIDDLE of just one bevel. I don’t even know how one would make a concave bevel with flat stones so there had to be a burr, or rather rolled edge/burr that was evading my general detection. At the expense of some thumbnail (I didn’t bother to head to the garage for a wood dowel), sure enough I found a length of edge that had something of a “shelf” feel to it!

A few edge-trailing runs on the brown rod, and swipes through my trusty cork and whatever roll was causing that shelf was gone! A couple minutes bringing the bevels to a crisp apex on the Diamond rods plus a few refinement strokes on the brown rods and we are easily scrape shaving or better!

Whatever this roll/burr was doing, it was persistent, speaking to the toughness of BD1. Still sailed through cardboard. Guess I’ll see how a proper edge performs/lasts.

Sorry, no pictures…hope my description makes sense!
ncrockclimb
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

#1329

Post by ncrockclimb »

vivi wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 2:32 pm
ncrockclimb wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 2:19 pm
bjz wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 2:08 pm
...Vivi’s “burr detection” strop method...
Where does Vivi talk about this? Can you explain? Thanks!!
I use strops to detect burrs rather than remove them.

If you strop a knife with a decent sized burr, the side with the burr scrapes off a lot more compound.

For example if I stropped the Pacific Salt I posted above, the presentation side would look normal but the back side would have lots of compound along the edge. When I posted those pictures I realized the back side has a pretty bad burr I managed to miss.

Sometimes I'll have an edge pass the eye test and thumb test, but the strop reveals a burr I didn't detect.

Getting a good edge is all about minimizing burr formation once you're positive the angle you're using it creating a clean apex.
Thank you!
ncrockclimb
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

#1330

Post by ncrockclimb »

How low can you go?

I re-profiled my Manix Cru-wear down to 12dps. I used a 140g KME diamond stone and was very careful to make sure the edge was apexed. I finished with light edge leading strokes and + a few passes on a .5mic strop. The edge is VERY toothy. It will roughly scrape shave and (surprisingly) will cut phone book paper as long as I pull the blade. I will be interested in how the low DPS and grit perform over the next few weeks.

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u.w.
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

#1331

Post by u.w. »

ncrockclimb wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 2:55 pm
This thread is simply a Master Class in sharpening. Thank you to all that have contributed! The lessons I have learned while reading this thread from beginning to end have taken my sharpening to another level.

I have been experimenting with 2 aspects of sharpening: lower dps and coarser edges. Because of this thread, my new preferred edge comes from the KME 300 grit diamonds and a +/- 12 dps edge.

The one thing I would share is my burr removal technique. I have only seen this mentioned a few times here. I have found it to be the most consistently reliable method for removing a burr. Since I have been doing this, burrs have not been an issue AT ALL.

After making sure i have fully apexed the edge and develop a burr, I pull a dowel perpendicularly across the blade to fold down the burr. I then do a few blade forward strokes and repeat for the other side. I finish with a few blade forward strokes per side with VERY light pressure. I finally use a strop with 1 micron or .5 micron diamond paste.

The resulting edge is both able to shave hair off my arm while retaining some “toothiness.”

Here is a video of the burr removal with the dowel. It starts at 3:40.

https://youtu.be/l2ynSDYEUYI&t=865s
YES! Luong is The Man!

I watched that video years ago and thought... "that makes sense"

I use multiple ways to detect and remove my burr. One is cardboard, or index cards, or heavier duty paper to help in de-burring. Either to lay it down to one side or the other, or pull it off.

I find it very interesting how various of us have our own ways of doing that "final" burr detection and removal step that is so important in having a proper, good edge.



A question I've asked myself over the years is:
Where is the line? between a thin edge that cuts like a demon, but will roll because it's TO thin, and a burr? Where does it go from being a "foil" or standing up burr, to edge?

Here's the knife I've been carrying for probably two months now (maybe longer). 300 grit edge, sickeningly grabby and sharp, just the way I like'm :-)


Image


Once apexed, I felt for the burr and began deburring it by those super, super light burr removal strokes, back and forth until there was no discernible burr - then I pulled it through an index card - Sure enough, burr laid down to one side, gentle, super, super light stroke or two to "remove" it, pulled through index card again - same thing, lol, same procedure to removed, index card again and no burr that time. Few more though index card - still no discernible burr, absolutely grabs and send hairs flying left or right handed, Good to Go! Been rocking it for over a week since that last sharpening and it's still quite nice :-)


It's always been a little bit of a pain to de-burr this one (now many years old and showing some wear), but once deburred... Oh So Good!

u.w.
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TkoK83Spy
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

#1332

Post by TkoK83Spy »

My first attempt at reprofiling an SE knife. The tips of the serrations are too pokey and don't cut very well. Been working at this one on and off for about 3 hours now over the past few days. Still a ways to go, but so far so good.

I've never really followed much with SE...best to leave it toothy when done, or does a little refinement on the browns and fine rods work better?

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15 :bug-red 's in 10 different steels
1 - Bradford Guardian 3 / Vanadis 4E Wharnie
1 - Monterey Bay Knives Slayback Flipper / ZDP 189
1 - CRK Small Sebenza 31/Macassar Ebony Inlays
1 - CRK Large Inkosi Insingo/ Black Micarta Inlays
1 - CRK Small Sebenza 31 Insingo/Magnacut

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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

#1333

Post by JRinFL »

My UKPK Salt SE really needs to be reprofiled. It needs an Evil D edge ASAP.
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bbturbodad
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

#1334

Post by bbturbodad »

TkoK83Spy wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 12:13 pm
My first attempt at reprofiling an SE knife. The tips of the serrations are too pokey and don't cut very well. Been working at this one on and off for about 3 hours now over the past few days. Still a ways to go, but so far so good.

I've never really followed much with SE...best to leave it toothy when done, or does a little refinement on the browns and fine rods work better?

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Looking good! I usually leave it toothy after a reprofile (just because it takes so long) and then use the brown or fine rods either on the next sharpening or after a few days.

...and yeah I don't know why but my DF Salt took a lot longer to reprofile than I expected too.
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cabfrank
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

#1335

Post by cabfrank »

Maybe it's harder than expected.
Urkilnmesmalls
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

#1336

Post by Urkilnmesmalls »

I haven’t had time to read the whole thread here, but today I tried something new to me. I sharpened up some m4 on dmt 220 grit, and skipped straight to the extra extra fine 8000 grit dmt to refine it about 4 passes per side, then stropped on 1 micron gunny juice. I am running at 15dps and this thing is nasty. I have never had such a coarse edge that will whittle hair and still bites into things so hard
ncrockclimb
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

#1337

Post by ncrockclimb »

Spent a few hours re-profiling and sharpening my M4 Sage.

I got the bevel set to 12 degrees with a 100 grit diamond plate, then progressed through 140 and 300. I finished with a 600 grit plate. I made sure to get a clean apex with each grit, and then completely deburred the edge with forward strokes before progressing. I usually do not create micro-bevels, but today I created one with my Sharpmaker. I used the 15 degree setting and brown rods. I finished with a few strokes on my 40 micron diamond paste strop.

The edge is not as "toothy" as some I have done, but is a nice functional edge that should last a while.

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bbturbodad
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

#1338

Post by bbturbodad »

TkoK83Spy wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 12:13 pm
My first attempt at reprofiling an SE knife. The tips of the serrations are too pokey and don't cut very well. Been working at this one on and off for about 3 hours now over the past few days. Still a ways to go, but so far so good.

I've never really followed much with SE...best to leave it toothy when done, or does a little refinement on the browns and fine rods work better?

Image
You inspired me to reprofile my SE Dodo. CBN for the reprofile and then smoothed out with the fine rods. It's not my cleanest work but it cuts great.

Image
-Turbo
Soanso McMasters
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

#1339

Post by Soanso McMasters »

ncrockclimb wrote:
Sun May 22, 2022 12:30 am
How low can you go?

I re-profiled my Manix Cru-wear down to 12dps. I used a 140g KME diamond stone and was very careful to make sure the edge was apexed. I finished with light edge leading strokes and + a few passes on a .5mic strop. The edge is VERY toothy. It will roughly scrape shave and (surprisingly) will cut phone book paper as long as I pull the blade. I will be interested in how the low DPS and grit perform over the next few weeks.

Image

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If you use some masking tape or painters tape to cover the face of the ricasso, the stones won’t scrape against that portion. If you don’t mind, no biggie, but I have been doing that if I use my KME in order to not scrape the edge of the stones there. It doesn’t seem to happen as much when I sharpen the heel to the ricasso on benchstones so I don’t tape them for benchstone sharpening.
vivi
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

#1340

Post by vivi »

Urkilnmesmalls wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 4:29 pm
I haven’t had time to read the whole thread here, but today I tried something new to me. I sharpened up some m4 on dmt 220 grit, and skipped straight to the extra extra fine 8000 grit dmt to refine it about 4 passes per side, then stropped on 1 micron gunny juice. I am running at 15dps and this thing is nasty. I have never had such a coarse edge that will whittle hair and still bites into things so hard
that kind of edge is really fun to use. very aggressive slicing but can still push cut well.
:unicorn
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