Community Sharpening Journal

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
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Pelagic
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

Postby Pelagic » Sun Nov 17, 2019 4:33 pm

Deadboxhero wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:24 pm
Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:20 pm
Deadboxhero wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:12 pm
Just lock your wrist more so it doesn't cause the blade to wobble when moving back and forth.
Thank you, I appreciate the tip.
There might be more useful tips in this video.

https://youtu.be/nHrGs3hCzgg
Why do you deburr with edge trailing passes on the stone? Edge trailing passes create more burr with each pass than edge leading passes. Have you ever used an angle grinder on mild steel? The entry point of the disc has almost no burr and the exit point has a huge burr. This is because the point at which an abrasive initially encounters a steel, the steel it abraded ends up near the point at which the steel and the abrasive no longer make contact, where it piles up (in regard to knives, making a burr along the apex). It's kind of like an entry wound vs exit wound thing. If you deburred with edge leading passes, you would have a MUCH smaller burr before stropping. This would ultimately mean less fatigued steel at the apex and a healthier apex.

Edit: I just got to the point where on your stones specifically, edge trailing is best??? I'm still watching.

Wow, we are different. You have scars and calluses from cutting your fingertips just to test knife sharpness???? In 25 years of sharpening I've never even contemplated this.

The purpose of a microbevel is to break off the base of the burr???

Don't get me wrong, great video, but wow... you're right, there are many ways to skin a cat.
Pancake wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:20 pm
Are you a magician? :eek:
Nate wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:32 pm
You're the lone wolf of truth howling into the winds of ignorance
Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:17 pm
You are a nobody got it?

Doeswhateveraspidercan
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:48 pm

The Meat man wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 4:29 pm
Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:27 am
You know I think I am deep down the knife rabbit hole. I actually carry a back up knife in my tool kit it is a Cold Steel Broken Skull.

Yesterday my boss wanted me to sharpen his knife the one shown above, he said but dang it I hate being without a knife. Knowing how he felt I handed the broken skull to him so he would not be in a terrible way, that is to say Knifeless. Lol now I am lending knives while sharpening them and repairing them for others and for free. Ha, Ha, Ha I laugh at me.

Today I brought the Benchmade to work and asked him to never put it through another carbide V shaped sharpener toy. He laughed. Then I took out some telephone book paper and gave him a nice demonstration Lol I wish you guys could have seen the look on his face as he exclaimed Wow! Now that is sharp.

He could care less about the black coating getting diamond trails all he wanted was a super sharp blade to work with. I also learned a valuable lesson about the Atoma 140 thanks for pointing that out Cambertree.
Nice work Doeswhatever!

That's exactly what I did once, except I lent my most expensive Spyderco (Advocate) to my co-worker for a couple days while I sharpened up his Kershaw Launch 7. He's a bit of a knife guy and besides I don't think he could've hurt the Advocate if he tried. :) It was his favorite of all my knives and I thought I'd give him a chance to try it out. Fast forward a couple months later, and now all he carries is his own Advocate (purchased at discontinued close-out price.)
Lol my boss also has the advocate, took it apart and cleaned it up around a year ago or so, great knife by the way have to admit I am more selfish than you, loaning a cold steel sure but no one gets my Spyderco’s.

Doeswhateveraspidercan
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:52 pm

Pelagic wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 4:33 pm
Deadboxhero wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:24 pm
Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:20 pm
Deadboxhero wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:12 pm
Just lock your wrist more so it doesn't cause the blade to wobble when moving back and forth.
Thank you, I appreciate the tip.
There might be more useful tips in this video.

https://youtu.be/nHrGs3hCzgg
Why do you deburr with edge trailing passes on the stone? Edge trailing passes create more burr with each pass than edge leading passes. Have you ever used an angle grinder on mild steel? The entry point of the disc has almost no burr and the exit point has a huge burr. This is because the point at which an abrasive initially encounters a steel, the steel it abraded ends up near the point at which the steel and the abrasive no longer make contact, where it piles up (in regard to knives, making a burr along the apex). It's kind of like an entry wound vs exit wound thing. If you deburred with edge leading passes, you would have a MUCH smaller burr before stropping. This would ultimately mean less fatigued steel at the apex and a healthier apex.

Edit: I just got to the point where on your stones specifically, edge trailing is best??? I'm still watching.

Wow, we are different. You have scars and calluses from cutting your fingertips just to test knife sharpness???? In 25 years of sharpening I've never even contemplated this.

The purpose of a microbevel is to break off the base of the burr???

Don't get me wrong, great video, but wow... you're right, there are many ways to skin a cat.
While I am listening closely to what you are saying and it does make sense but... but... I have to say both Murray Carter and Deadboxhero are stripping the same on the stones. So am I and blades are coming out far sharper and holding a far better edge.

For crying out loud I have a custom Buck 110 in 440C cutting far better and holding an edge far better than it has any right to following these oh so similar techniques.

Why not give it a try see what happens?

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Deadboxhero
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

Postby Deadboxhero » Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:06 pm

The "how to video" makes it seem like it takes a long time to sharpen. Here is a video of demonstrating how I like to sharpen.


I usually just like a 1k stone, 1um strop finish for general use.

Too each there own, folks should just do whatever works best for them.

https://youtu.be/-M44bhrLAAg
Big Brown Bear
[url]https://www.youtube.com/user/shawnhouston[/ur]
Triple B Handmade Knives

Doeswhateveraspidercan
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:04 am

So last night I took out the 1000 and 6000 king stones I purchased from Murray Carter. Set up the sink bridge let them soak for 15 minutes. Went and did some chores came back and started with the 1000 King stone and thinned down the secondary edge on a Buck 110 in 440C stainless.

After a little of that on both sides the sharpening / material removal began.

Flipped a burr on one side and then the next. Then performed stopping lightly on the stone.

After that switched stones went to the 6000 and it was much different I accidentally raised up and the blade bit into the stone. WOW now I understand what was told to me about these stones being soft.

After this I stopped grabbed the Atoma 1200 diamond plate and a pencil made crosses hatch marks on both stones and flattened them.

Wow Atoma plates are quick and efficient took them both down to flat swiftly.

After this I finished with the 6000 stone and the knife is scary sharp like I have never experienced before from any of the guided systems, diamonds or ceramics.

Free hand sharpening is also allot less boring and pretty relaxing.

Chris_P_Bacon
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

Postby Chris_P_Bacon » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:50 pm

Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:04 am
Free hand sharpening is also allot less boring and pretty relaxing.
Almost zen-like, especially when things are going well.
Currently have 147 :spyder: 's in 40 different steels.
Bench Stones Atoma Diamond Plate 140,400,600,1200. Naniwa Chosera 400,800,1000,3000,5000.
Shapton Glass 1000,6000. Suehiro Rika 5000. Shapton Pro 320,1000,2000,5000,8000.
Naniwa Bonded Diamond 400,600,800,1000,3000,6000. Venev Gen2 OCB Combo Diamond 800/1200.
Spyderco 8x3 UF 306UF. Doublestuff 303FCBN2
Want List Steels 9V, 15V, K490, M398, S125V, S390, SRS-15, Vanax SC, Vancron SC

Baron Mind
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

Postby Baron Mind » Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:44 pm

Finally finished freehand reprofiling my cruwear native 5. Took me 4 days. In the past I would get fatigued or frustrated and knowing or unknowingly return to sharpening closer to the original angle, leave the edge with multifaceted bevels or a convex edge. I stuck it out the whole way this time. Mostly done on a 300 grit (50-45 micron) metallic bonded diamond stone, edge pro format stone, stone in hand. Anything coarser than that and it's hard for me to maintain a consistent angle, the stone surface is so bumpy I can't visually guage the distance between stone and apex.

A true reprofiling to a lower angle this time should yield increased cutting performance and greater edge retention. Not finishing the reprofile just makes your bevels look taller.

I just worked through a 600 grit resin bonded cbn stone, a 1k metallic bonded diamond stone, and am onto my 800 OCB Venev resin bonded diamond stone. I've left way too many deep scratches during that long reprofiling for any kind of a mirror finish, but I'm going to progress through my 1200 ocb (3-2 micron) and hope for the best edge I can get.

I'll report back.

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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

Postby AccountDeletedUserRequest » Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:56 pm

If you want a mirror edge consider a microbevel. It's a lot less work than polishing the wide bevel of a reprofiled edge.

Baron Mind
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

Postby Baron Mind » Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:05 am

Finished up on the 1200 ocb, did some deburring work, and the apex was looking pretty clean. The edge finish was kind of a mess anyway so I decided to do a few deburring passes on a spyderco UF ceramic. Lately I've been avoiding ceramics because I don't like the look of the edge a lot of times, especially on higher hardness higher carbide volume steels. The ceramics tend to burnish too much, and leave hazy patches on the bevels. **** if they don't do a good job or popping any remaining burr and crisping up the apex though, as long as you don't spend too much time, use too much pressure, or go over angle and round off all your microserrations.

I did a pass of 2, edge trailing on a 3 micron diamond film, and now I'm on to a micron polydiamond spray on basswood.

Will report back.

Baron Mind
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

Postby Baron Mind » Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:32 am

Vivi wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:56 pm
If you want a mirror edge consider a microbevel. It's a lot less work than polishing the wide bevel of a reprofiled edge.
That's true, also not as flashy!

Honestly though, aesthetics are only a secondary consideration for me. Primary concern is sharpness, and edge health.

First I worked and worked to achieve sharpness, being able to pull off the various sharpness tests, then I worried about trying to make my edges look nice, then I became dedicated to healthy edges. Burr free, non fatigued, long lasting, high performing edges. Sharp is easier than healthy.

Sharp, healthy, then if it looks good to boot, I've hit the trifecta. Looks are definitely last though.

Chris_P_Bacon
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

Postby Chris_P_Bacon » Sat Nov 23, 2019 1:07 am

Baron Mind wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:44 pm
Finally finished freehand reprofiling my cruwear native 5. Took me 4 days. In the past I would get fatigued or frustrated and knowing or unknowingly return to sharpening closer to the original angle, leave the edge with multifaceted bevels or a convex edge. I stuck it out the whole way this time. Mostly done on a 300 grit (50-45 micron) metallic bonded diamond stone, edge pro format stone, stone in hand. Anything coarser than that and it's hard for me to maintain a consistent angle, the stone surface is so bumpy I can't visually guage the distance between stone and apex.
Great to see your determination to do it right, regardless of the time required.

If anyone out there reading this, that may be in the market for new stones for hand sharpening/re-profiling. Diamonds and CBN are awesome, but to save time, I highly recommend you purchase them in the 8x3 (or bigger) bench stone size(s). Although I have no skin in the game, I will say the larger surface area alone, tends to speed things up considerably. Plus, they're a joy to use on longer blades as well (think fillet knives and kitchen knives).

For hand sharpening, 1" wide and smaller sizes are great in the field for maintaining your knives on the go, or at home for touch-ups, not so much for major re-profiling jobs.
Currently have 147 :spyder: 's in 40 different steels.
Bench Stones Atoma Diamond Plate 140,400,600,1200. Naniwa Chosera 400,800,1000,3000,5000.
Shapton Glass 1000,6000. Suehiro Rika 5000. Shapton Pro 320,1000,2000,5000,8000.
Naniwa Bonded Diamond 400,600,800,1000,3000,6000. Venev Gen2 OCB Combo Diamond 800/1200.
Spyderco 8x3 UF 306UF. Doublestuff 303FCBN2
Want List Steels 9V, 15V, K490, M398, S125V, S390, SRS-15, Vanax SC, Vancron SC

AccountDeletedUserRequest
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

Postby AccountDeletedUserRequest » Sat Nov 23, 2019 4:17 am

Chris_P_Bacon wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 1:07 am
Baron Mind wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:44 pm
Finally finished freehand reprofiling my cruwear native 5. Took me 4 days. In the past I would get fatigued or frustrated and knowing or unknowingly return to sharpening closer to the original angle, leave the edge with multifaceted bevels or a convex edge. I stuck it out the whole way this time. Mostly done on a 300 grit (50-45 micron) metallic bonded diamond stone, edge pro format stone, stone in hand. Anything coarser than that and it's hard for me to maintain a consistent angle, the stone surface is so bumpy I can't visually guage the distance between stone and apex.
Great to see your determination to do it right, regardless of the time required.

If anyone out there reading this, that may be in the market for new stones for hand sharpening/re-profiling. Diamonds and CBN are awesome, but to save time, I highly recommend you purchase them in the 8x3 (or bigger) bench stone size(s). Although I have no skin in the game, I will say the larger surface area alone, tends to speed things up considerably. Plus, they're a joy to use on longer blades as well (think fillet knives and kitchen knives).

For hand sharpening, 1" wide and smaller sizes are great in the field for maintaining your knives on the go, or at home for touch-ups, not so much for major re-profiling jobs.
I'll second that. Reprofiling a knife on an 8x2 XC DMT is twice as fast as the diamond sharpmaker rods.

Doeswhateveraspidercan
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:33 am

Yep bigger is more better when it comes to stones. I am getting a great education from this thread and free-handing learning more about steels in a very real way.

It is very surprising to me that Spyderco is not producing knives in 440C.

This steel is very easy to sharpen likes to get sharp in a way that reminds me of cruwear is incredibly stain resistant has marvelous edge stability and even when it no longer slices telephone book paper after taking down large quantities of double walled cardboard it still keeps a great working edge.

These are just some of the points in its favor.

Another I am learning is that I am finding it to be a toothy steel meaning a 6000 grit king stone makes it Not only a refined edge but a refined toothy edge.

This refined toothy is really good off of the 6000 grit king stone it interacts with more materials in a better cutting manner than if I stop at the 1000 grit king stone.

So this is matching 440C with a BOS heat treatment to a certain specific brand of abrasive.

I am wondering how well these stones will work with S30V and thinking my Manix XL DLC will make a fine test subject.

Also considering a military in CTS 204P and my long term S90V military as candidates next.

Baron Mind
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

Postby Baron Mind » Sun Nov 24, 2019 1:19 am


User avatar
Pelagic
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

Postby Pelagic » Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:58 am

Baron Mind wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 1:19 am
https://imgur.com/gallery/imXwWXM
What finish did you go with?
Pancake wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:20 pm
Are you a magician? :eek:
Nate wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:32 pm
You're the lone wolf of truth howling into the winds of ignorance
Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:17 pm
You are a nobody got it?

Doeswhateveraspidercan
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Posts: 2618
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:31 pm

Re: Community Sharpening Journal

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:11 pm

In my ongoing journey I have arrived at the shapeton waterstones.

Does anyone have experience with them and willing to share some tips and tricks?

Seems to me you can jump allot of grits with water stones like Murray Carter does going from 1000 to 6000.

Chris_P_Bacon
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

Postby Chris_P_Bacon » Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:39 pm

Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:11 pm
In my ongoing journey I have arrived at the shapeton waterstones.

Does anyone have experience with them and willing to share some tips and tricks?

Seems to me you can jump allot of grits with water stones like Murray Carter does going from 1000 to 6000.

Arrived? Meaning you're considering, or have already pulled the trigger?
Currently have 147 :spyder: 's in 40 different steels.
Bench Stones Atoma Diamond Plate 140,400,600,1200. Naniwa Chosera 400,800,1000,3000,5000.
Shapton Glass 1000,6000. Suehiro Rika 5000. Shapton Pro 320,1000,2000,5000,8000.
Naniwa Bonded Diamond 400,600,800,1000,3000,6000. Venev Gen2 OCB Combo Diamond 800/1200.
Spyderco 8x3 UF 306UF. Doublestuff 303FCBN2
Want List Steels 9V, 15V, K490, M398, S125V, S390, SRS-15, Vanax SC, Vancron SC

AccountDeletedUserRequest
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

Postby AccountDeletedUserRequest » Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:27 pm

I had some shaptons back in the day. I found them a lot messier than my DMT fine and didn't like having to flatten them, so I sold them. Gave a nice edge though, no complaints there. I had the 1k and one other grit I can't recall at the moment.

Baron Mind
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Re: Community Sharpening Journal

Postby Baron Mind » Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:44 pm

Pelagic wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:58 am
Baron Mind wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 1:19 am
https://imgur.com/gallery/imXwWXM
What finish did you go with?
Last full stone was a 1200 OCB Venev. Then I did some real light work on a Spyderco UF, a 1 micron strop, and a .25 micron strop. I try to deburr as much as possible on my last stone, then any ceramics or strops I try keep as minimal as possible. Like 2 or 3 passes per side on the ceramic, light pressure, careful not to go over my angle, and maybe 5 or 10 passes per side on the 1 micron, and 2 or 3 on the. 25. The edge came out really nice, refined enough to whittle, but still sticky with a lot of bite.

Doeswhateveraspidercan
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Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:31 pm

Re: Community Sharpening Journal

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:58 pm

Chris_P_Bacon wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:39 pm
Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:11 pm
In my ongoing journey I have arrived at the shapeton waterstones.

Does anyone have experience with them and willing to share some tips and tricks?

Seems to me you can jump allot of grits with water stones like Murray Carter does going from 1000 to 6000.
Arrived? Meaning you're considering, or have already pulled the trigger?
Meaning considering and researching.

Tonight I sharpened 3 knives.

My ladies Chicago cutlery soft steel chef knife

My Manix XL DLC in S30V

My Buck 110 hunter custom IN 440C

On all 3 I used Murray Carters technique and his 1000 king stone and 6000 king stone I purchased from him with the training DVD’s of his.

While still a novice free hand sharpener my result are incredibly sharp.

I will never go back to guided systems. Tomorrow will post the before and after pics.

Despite all theories S30V does not require Diamonds far from it. In fact I am now a great lover of S30V until now I lacked tools and education.

I have both thanks to Murray Carter and that used Manix XL in DLC is sharper than I can believe.

It takes just a bit more effort to take down the secondary adage and flip the burr compared to 440C but not by much at all.


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