Anyone else interested in a LW Native Chief?

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
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Wartstein
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Re: Anyone else interested in a LW Native Chief?

Postby Wartstein » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:59 pm

Enactive wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:36 pm
Marc, I haven't been following Spyderco for too long so don't know about older examples, but the Endela went straight to FRN with no other version first. Also curious if there are older examples.
Imho the Endela HAD to come in FRN, just cause it's part of the "Endura family". One of the defining features of that line are exactly the typical textured FRN handles (Endura, Stretch, Delica, DFly), iterations with other materials are rare exceptions here...
Can't think of any other line that is more associated with FRN than the Endura family (ok, maybe the SALT line, but in a way these knives belong to the Endura family too...)

Especially being marketed as the model for people who find the Delica to small, but the Endura too large, the Endela just had to be similar to those two, just sized in between.

Also, I guess the Endela has a size in blade and handle (almost exactly PM2 ish), more people are willing or allowed to carry, so the monetarian risk of making costly FRN molds was not that high...
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Anyone else interested in a LW Native Chief?

Postby Wartstein » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:11 am

wrdwrght wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:01 pm
.....
What about the similarly large Police, you might ask. Now in its fourth iteration, it may show up in FRN for the first time this year or next. But it’s had over three decades to establish a following...
......
Maybe a bit ot, but let me say: For me personally, the Police is noticable larger than the Chief (just by their specs, don't own either... yet... :D ):

For me Police and Millie are one size class above Endura and Chief (Chief really almost having Endura size), and while the "Endura/ Chief size class" is my favorite one, the "Police/ Millie class" is a tad TOO large for me... (I own several Enduras and a Millie, so I know from personal experience)

So if more people are like me (Endura size = perfect, Millie size too large), that would mean a broader market for the Chief and a better chance for a lw version..

(Just for reference: Stretch 1 and Endela would be one size class BELOW Chief and Endura in my "classification".)
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Anyone else interested in a LW Native Chief?

Postby Catamount123 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:41 am

The Chief is my new favorite Spyder, so I'm definitely up for a LW and/or Salt version. The only variations I wouldn't buy are S90V or M4.
I don't get people who only carry one knife :confused: ;)

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Re: Anyone else interested in a LW Native Chief?

Postby Notsurewhy » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:01 am

Wartstein wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:11 am
wrdwrght wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:01 pm
.....
What about the similarly large Police, you might ask. Now in its fourth iteration, it may show up in FRN for the first time this year or next. But it’s had over three decades to establish a following...
......
Maybe a bit ot, but let me say: For me personally, the Police is noticable larger than the Chief (just by their specs, don't own either... yet... :D ):

For me Police and Millie are one size class above Endura and Chief (Chief really almost having Endura size), and while the "Endura/ Chief size class" is my favorite one, the "Police/ Millie class" is a tad TOO large for me... (I own several Enduras and a Millie, so I know from personal experience)

So if more people are like me (Endura size = perfect, Millie size too large), that would mean a broader market for the Chief and a better chance for a lw version..

(Just for reference: Stretch 1 and Endela would be one size class BELOW Chief and Endura in my "classification".)
I tend to judge by blade length more than handle, so ymmv. Here's my assessment.

The chief and military blade length is almost identical. The chief blade is longer overall but has slightly less edge because less of the choil is in the handle. The military handle is bigger though.

The difference in blade length from endura to chief is similar to the difference between endura and endela. Chief has a noticably longer blade and longer sharpened edge even with the choil.

The police is significantly longer than the rest. Almost a half inch of blade length more than the chief/military and it dwarfs the endura by 3/4 inch in blade.

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Re: Anyone else interested in a LW Native Chief?

Postby wrdwrght » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:14 am

Enactive wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:36 pm
Marc, I haven't been following Spyderco for too long so don't know about older examples, but the Endela went straight to FRN with no other version first. Also curious if there are older examples.
True enough, but I imagine dedicated Delica and Endura users already had their pumps primed for the Endela, thus lessening Spyderco’s worry about what molds cost.

EDIT: I see Wartstein had made the same case.
Last edited by wrdwrght on Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
Marc <— a mere data-point

INBOUND: 83mm “Mini” Manix. ON RADAR: Maxamet PM2; Lil’ Native slipjoint; Siren. IN DREAMS: V4E Military2 stop-lock; 4V Native Chief; Slysz Swayback; Anso Rock Lobster; Nishijin “R”; C27 serrated Jess Horn.

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Re: Anyone else interested in a LW Native Chief?

Postby wrdwrght » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:22 am

Wartstein wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:59 pm
Enactive wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:36 pm
Marc, I haven't been following Spyderco for too long so don't know about older examples, but the Endela went straight to FRN with no other version first. Also curious if there are older examples.
Imho the Endela HAD to come in FRN, just cause it's part of the "Endura family". One of the defining features of that line are exactly the typical textured FRN handles (Endura, Stretch, Delica, DFly), iterations with other materials are rare exceptions here...
Can't think of any other line that is more associated with FRN than the Endura family (ok, maybe the SALT line, but in a way these knives belong to the Endura family too...)

Especially being marketed as the model for people who find the Delica to small, but the Endura too large, the Endela just had to be similar to those two, just sized in between.

Also, I guess the Endela has a size in blade and handle (almost exactly PM2 ish), more people are willing or allowed to carry, so the monetarian risk of making costly FRN molds was not that high...
We’re on the same page.
Marc <— a mere data-point

INBOUND: 83mm “Mini” Manix. ON RADAR: Maxamet PM2; Lil’ Native slipjoint; Siren. IN DREAMS: V4E Military2 stop-lock; 4V Native Chief; Slysz Swayback; Anso Rock Lobster; Nishijin “R”; C27 serrated Jess Horn.

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Re: Anyone else interested in a LW Native Chief?

Postby Vivi » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:32 am

Despite the Police being as long as it is, I've always found them more comfortable in the pocket than a Millie. Flatter, more narrow, and when you reach into your pocket with it clipped your hand rubs against a smooth steel backspacer instead of grinding against jimping. The very narrow butt end means it's very easy to slide your hand in and out of your pocket compared to wide ended knives like the Manix XL.

So try to handle one before dismissing it based on specs.

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Re: Anyone else interested in a LW Native Chief?

Postby wrdwrght » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:46 am

Vivi wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:32 am
Despite the Police being as long as it is, I've always found them more comfortable in the pocket than a Millie. Flatter, more narrow, and when you reach into your pocket with it clipped your hand rubs against a smooth steel backspacer instead of grinding against jimping. The very narrow butt end means it's very easy to slide your hand in and out of your pocket compared to wide ended knives like the Manix XL.

So try to handle one before dismissing it based on specs.
Good analysis and advice, Vivi.

BTW, I’d probably go for a LW Chief (and am almost certain Lance would) if it came in LC200N. But how do we get over the FRN threshold I posed earlier?

I don’t think we can, so, what special case might we plead to Sal and Eric? I’m not convinced that Lance’s “lightness of being” is suffish. As noted by some, the Chief isn’t exactly weighty.
Marc <— a mere data-point

INBOUND: 83mm “Mini” Manix. ON RADAR: Maxamet PM2; Lil’ Native slipjoint; Siren. IN DREAMS: V4E Military2 stop-lock; 4V Native Chief; Slysz Swayback; Anso Rock Lobster; Nishijin “R”; C27 serrated Jess Horn.

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Re: Anyone else interested in a LW Native Chief?

Postby Wartstein » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:44 am

Notsurewhy wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:01 am
Wartstein wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:11 am
wrdwrght wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:01 pm
.....
What about the similarly large Police, you might ask. Now in its fourth iteration, it may show up in FRN for the first time this year or next. But it’s had over three decades to establish a following...
......
Maybe a bit ot, but let me say: For me personally, the Police is noticable larger than the Chief (just by their specs, don't own either... yet... :D ):

For me Police and Millie are one size class above Endura and Chief (Chief really almost having Endura size), and while the "Endura/ Chief size class" is my favorite one, the "Police/ Millie class" is a tad TOO large for me... (I own several Enduras and a Millie, so I know from personal experience)

So if more people are like me (Endura size = perfect, Millie size too large), that would mean a broader market for the Chief and a better chance for a lw version..

(Just for reference: Stretch 1 and Endela would be one size class BELOW Chief and Endura in my "classification".)
I tend to judge by blade length more than handle, so ymmv. Here's my assessment.

The chief and military blade length is almost identical. The chief blade is longer overall but has slightly less edge because less of the choil is in the handle. The military handle is bigger though.

The difference in blade length from endura to chief is similar to the difference between endura and endela. Chief has a noticably longer blade and longer sharpened edge even with the choil.

The police is significantly longer than the rest. Almost a half inch of blade length more than the chief/military and it dwarfs the endura by 3/4 inch in blade.

Sure, bladelength is a valid measure to "classify" knives!

But I go by the specs that matter most for me personally in "real life":
1.) Closed length / handle length ("knife in the pocket")
2.) Actual cutting edge, not overall blade length

Based on these two specs Endura and Chief are very similar and both smaller than Millie and Police
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Anyone else interested in a LW Native Chief?

Postby Wartstein » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:19 pm

Vivi wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:32 am
Despite the Police being as long as it is, I've always found them more comfortable in the pocket than a Millie. Flatter, more narrow, and when you reach into your pocket with it clipped your hand rubs against a smooth steel backspacer instead of grinding against jimping. The very narrow butt end means it's very easy to slide your hand in and out of your pocket compared to wide ended knives like the Manix XL.

So try to handle one before dismissing it based on specs.
Concerning size in pocket, what bothers me when a knife gets TOO large is much more its (closed) length than its width.
Especially in jeanspockets a very long handled folder can get awkward when riding a bike, sitting in a car and so on. (And I am just a RFP guy, IWB only in running shorts, BP not at all).
Since the Endura already is almost a tiny bit too long in pocket (and the Millie definitely is), I know without having to try that the Police will be either.

BTW: That's (just) one of the reasons why I don't get that deep carry hype, especially with longer knives: For example: One thing I did not like in my Kapara: Due to its deep carry clip it actually felt longer in pocket than an Endura, despite the Kapara in fact is shorter in closed length...
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Anyone else interested in a LW Native Chief?

Postby Vivi » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:26 pm

What about IWB carry in jeans don't you like? I find it more comfortable than in running shorts, since a belt prevents the right side of my shorts from sagging.

Maybe get some pants like this.

Image

That side pocket above the knee is a perfect spot for an EDC. frees up the pockets and easier to get in and out compared to IWB.

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Re: Anyone else interested in a LW Native Chief?

Postby Pelagic » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:31 pm

I'd rather have a fully titanium chief, haha. Chief heavyweight? :D
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Re: Anyone else interested in a LW Native Chief?

Postby araneae » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:01 pm

I'd probably consider a lightweight.
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Re: Anyone else interested in a LW Native Chief?

Postby Bloke » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:18 am

Vivi wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:26 pm
get some pants like this.
Image
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Re: Anyone else interested in a LW Native Chief?

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:19 am

Native Chief light weight full on salt treatment is a natural purchase in LC200N.

I recently decided to sell both my Native SE AND PE both of which are salts in LC200N.

Pulled them out, popped the blades did a little cutting, back in the box.

Decision reversed they are staying.
:)

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Re: Anyone else interested in a LW Native Chief?

Postby marty_bill_ » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:30 pm

I'm more into blade steels than handle specs, but I wouldn't pass on a lw NC. Been packing a NC for a couple weeks now and it's great. I'm not a shorts guy so my knives ride rfp, and bp. I'm also far from water, so salt water versions don't do much for me either. But they work for a lot of folks and that's great. I do really like the g10 though and being linerless is also a good thing in my eyes. I think if someone is into larger knives it's good to buy the knives Spyderco puts out. Because seems to me a lot of people definitely support the smaller knife market for a variety of reasons. But for 4" plus category it gets not as much support.

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Re: Anyone else interested in a LW Native Chief?

Postby Pancake » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:37 pm

marty_bill_ wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:30 pm
But for 4" plus category it gets not as much support.
Throw a CPM 10V at 63 HRC on it and it will have all the support in the world. (Or S110V)
In the pocket: Chaparral FRN, Native Chief, Police 4 K390
On belt: Bow River, Waterway

Waiting for Stretched Stretch :D

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Re: Anyone else interested in a LW Native Chief?

Postby ZrowsN1s » Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:46 pm

Im happy with my linerless g-10 version, but I have friends who would probably go for a LW. I think they'd sell.
Carrying 3 knives is perfectly normal :D
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Re: Anyone else interested in a LW Native Chief?

Postby Wartstein » Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:44 am

Vivi wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:26 pm
What about IWB carry in jeans don't you like? I find it more comfortable than in running shorts, since a belt prevents the right side of my shorts from sagging.

Maybe get some pants like this.

Image

That side pocket above the knee is a perfect spot for an EDC. frees up the pockets and easier to get in and out compared to IWB.

I seem to recall we´ve disussed this very topic some month ago, haven´t we?!

Anyway, I really tried IWB (partly due to your recommendations), but it just doesn´t work for me in my day to day life (when working, that is):

I almost always wear Jeans, my Shirt always untucked, depending on the time of the year maybe a longer Fleece Jacket plus a down vest, I am a lot on the road (bike, bus, car) and carry a rucksack plus a waist pack most of the times (knife in the waist pack is no option, wouldn´t want to zip and unzip that thing all the time plus want my knife really ON me).

Given that, it is just a lot more awkward to access and put away an IWB carried knife than to have it in the RFP.

Also, though it may sound a bit weird: If a pant does not stretch at all at the waist (like jeans), PLUS one is rather lean and, well, not "soft" (but a bit more muscular / tight) in the torso area just from doing a lot of sports, that makes it a bit harder to put back a knife IWB too probably - just not much "give" there (don´t know if that is the right term).
But from all I know you are a quite "sporty" guy either, so maybe you´d like to try yourself when wearing jeans plus a belt...

But: As soon as I need new pants, I´ll follow your recomendation and buy some with side pockets at the thighs (I really don´t care for "fashion", so it does no matter to me at all if I wear jeans or a bit more "tactical" pants anyway). That might be the day when I´ll say: GOOD thing that I just do not seem to find a buyer for my Millie, cause then I probably will like to carry it finally!! :)
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Anyone else interested in a LW Native Chief?

Postby mpcgimli » Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:09 am

Yes! I am actively waiting for the LW version. I prefer carrying and using them as opposed to the G10 versions, for the usual reasons.


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