Reveal, lack of anticipation, general thoughts.

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Liquid Cobra
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Reveal, lack of anticipation, general thoughts.

#1

Post by Liquid Cobra »

I’ve been collecting Spyderco knives for over 6 years or so by now and I thought I would share my thoughts and reflections on how collecting has changed for me over the years.

When I first got started I wasn’t collecting at all. I needed a well built knife at a lowish price point. I bought a Tenacious. I couldn’t understand why anyone would spend over $100 dollars on a knife. Well thinking like that didn’t last long and I soon bought a Paramilitary 2. From there I was searching for a Yojimbo 2 but they were out of stock everywhere, and I mean everywhere. One day at my local mall (that I was visiting for clothes or something) I casually asked a small knife shop that sold mostly kitchen knives if they had a yojimbo, they have been known to sell Spyderco in the past (Delica’s, etc). To my surprise the guy said yes and my Yojimbo was found. That feeling after searching for months was incredible. Not only had I found the knife I’d been searching for, but it far exceeded my expectations.

From there I started buying up all the standard knives a new Spyderco fan would. Delica’s, dragonfly’s, Military’s, UKPK’s, etc. Then I started getting the random collaboration models Spyderco was doing. Jason Breeden Rescue, P’kal, GB1, etc.

At some point I managed to convince my wife that I needed an orange Dodo and to my surprise she got it for me for my birthday. My first sprint run, it was all down hill from there. I started researching and buying old Spyderco models, sprints and exclusives that were before my time. I started searching eBay, blade forums, flea markets, local gun shops for anything and everything. My collection exploded and it was a lot of fun.

Then things started to change. I can’t remember which happened first, MAP pricing or when I found the last of every vintage Spyderco I ever wanted. Either way collecting got a lot simpler and less exciting. No longer was I searching dealers everyday for the best deal or special price. No longer was I scouring the bay or where ever for those long gone Spyderco gems.

So from there I started to focus more on what I knew I liked and stopped buying every new release that didn’t really peak my interest. The new prices made it too hard to keep up. Before MAP I would buy a knife I wasn’t too sure interested me, but at a good price. The savings would let me try out new offerings I might have otherwise passed on. Well those days were gone. It became too risky to drop a lot of money on a knife I wasn’t sure I’d like.

From there I made some rules for myself to help keep things under control.

- No more buying knives I wasn’t sure I’d absolutely love.
- Only purchase knives made in Golden, Taichung, Italy

I guess I should mention that at some point I started monkeying around with photography of my collection and sharing it here on the forum. This has brought me a lot joy and pride over the years.

The other thing I started doing to keep things interesting was attending the Oregon Knife Show. At the show I got to meet most of the Spyderco crew, see prototypes and meet other Spyderco nerds like myself. I have to say that this was easily the most fulfilling part of this hobby. Everyone at the Spyderco table was so nice and meeting and discussing knives with like minded people was a great experience. If you haven’t been to a knife show like that, I highly recommend it.

Then things changed again with the new reveal program. While I like the program, it’s fun in its own way. I do feel like it’s made the hobby less exciting. Before the reveal program I may have known a great knife was coming but it could be months or years before it’s release and I was fine with that. I always had a running tally of upcoming knives that I was excited for and had to buy. Right now I can’t think of a Spyderco knife on the horizon that I want to buy. I know this isn’t because they don’t exist, it’s because they haven’t been hinted at or shown to us.

I guess that last paragraph isn’t totally true. I know that the Slysz Swayback, Kapara slipjoint and BladeHQ Dodo are coming. But those were mostly announced or hinted at prior to the new reveal program.

Anyway, I just thought I would share where I’m at in this hobby right now and how I got here. The combination of the reveal program, no vintage knives and no deals (MAP) to hunt for, things have gotten a lot less exciting for me.

The good news (for me) is that recently I’ve started modding many of my knives and this has been really fun and exciting. I’d encourage you to give it a shot if you’re inclined. I have so much to learn I feel like I did all those years ago when I joined the forum. I remember being amazed at how much the members of the forum knew about knives, steels, Spyderco, sharpening, etc. Well now I have a whole new world of knife related things to learn. It’s like a new beginning.

If you’ve read this far, thanks. Hahaha. I’m terrible at writing down my thoughts so I’m sure that was a difficult read.

Feel free to share your thoughts on where you’re at in this hobby too.

Thanks.
Most recently acquired: Military 2, Paramilitary 2 Tanto x2, YoJUMBO, Swayback, Siren, DLC Yojimbo 2, Native Chief, Shaman S90V, Para 3 LW, Ikuchi, UKPK, Smock, SUBVERT, Amalgam, Para 3 CTS-XHP, Kapara, Paramilitary 2 M390
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Mushroom
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Re: Reveal, lack of anticipation, general thoughts.

#2

Post by Mushroom »

Thanks for sharing LC! I can definitely relate to many of your feelings. I've been collecting Spyderco exclusively for many years and my collecting habits have changed for a few reasons over those years. I think M.A.P had the biggest impact, for me.

I too miss the days of hunting around for the best deals before the introduction of M.A.P! It felt more rewarding when you found the right deal at the right time and really scored on something. I definitely noticed a big shift in my collecting habits when M.A.P was introduced. It was a good thing for my wallet but bad for my collection. I pretty much stopped any impulse purchases because of a killer deal available and wasn't buying nearly as frequently. With prices the same everywhere, I didn't feel like I needed to act fast anymore. I could wait until I really wanted that knife to buy it. These days, the only real deals are waiting around for someone to do a 10% - 20% off coupon.

My collecting habits weren't really hindered by the Reveal Program, but I will say I much preferred how Spyderco announced their models before the Reveal Program. Like you said, I was also totally fine with waiting an unknown length of time for a new design. We got awesome little sneak peaks in the Full Catalog, the Mid Year Catalog, and also in Wouters incredible annual Amsterdam thread! The entire reason for needing the Reveal Program in the first place is kind of a shame. A little bit a patience really pays off!

None the less, my collection is only getting larger and will likely continue that trend for a long time. :spyder:
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Re: Reveal, lack of anticipation, general thoughts.

#3

Post by vivi »

One thing that's frustrating about the new reveal program, is it seems a lot of knives that were already announced are no longer getting updates.

Swick 5 was a possibility in the last reveal from what I remember, but there's been radio silence on it for a while.

Pacific Salt FFG in LC200N was announced a few years ago I believe. Not sure if its still happening?

Military 2, announced last decade, no updates in years.

So now we have this reveal program which works alright for upcoming models, but these models I listed and others that were announced way before the new reveal program seem stuck in limbo.


------------------------------------------

I can echo your sentiment about having feeling like you've fulfilled your collection.

I've bought or handled every single Spyderco I've ever been interested in aside from the Ronin 1, which isn't worth 3x as much as the 2 to me. I own all the Spydercos that I want to actually use and carry. I could sell off everything besides my stable of Pacific Salts and my Waterway and be content with that setup.

So a lot of my enthusiasm also comes from modding designs, tweaking the edges, trying different grit finishes, swapping scales, stuff like that.

When it comes to new releases my tastes are so picky these days I'm lucky if 1/10th the catalog appeals to me. My rules are...

- No detent based locks (Compression lock, liner lock, frame lock)
- No blades under 3.5" on folders
- No blades under 2.5" on fixed blades
- No knives over 5.5oz if folding, 8oz with sheath for fixed blades
- No knives over $200. There is no role I cannot fill for less than $200
- I try to avoid sabre grinds outside of H1 knives
- No knives that require me to use an index choil to get a full grip
- No knives I cannot open and close one handed with a regular Spyder hole

So this mutes the majority of my excitement for new Spydercos.

Kapara looked very sleek and elegant, but it was a compression lock, and the comp lock has a history of opening in my pocket.

Tatanka looked awesome! But too heavy and a sabre grind made me seek out some old Voyager X2's and XL's instead.

Shaman looked great to me, especially as a fan of custom fixed blades with contoured handles. Comp lock though.....

Ikuchi looks like a really neat design that I briefly considered, but it doesn't have a functional Spyder hole, and the comp lock....

It's cool to see the Dodo is making a return, but it forces me to use a choil.

Same with the UKPK. It's an old favorite of mine and I nearly bought the HH release, but it's too small to be the only knife I carry and there isn't anything a UKPK can do that my Pacific Salt or Police can't.

ATR2 I planned on making my EDC when it was announced. By the time it came out I had a comp lock open in my pocket again and I gave up on them, so another old favorite was out. I loved the original except for the clip and slick scales, so the 2 seemed like a perfect update.

I've come to a point where I've realized the Pacific Salt goes in my pocket every day not because its my favorite, or its rare, or it impresses people when I show it to them, etc. It works better for me than any other single blade pocket knife I've tried. If I don't think a new model will do something better than that knife, I won't buy it.

Some days I feel like its silly spending as much time here as I do, but even if I rarely buy a new knife these days, I enjoy the discussions we have.
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Re: Reveal, lack of anticipation, general thoughts.

#4

Post by PaleMoon »

Maybe you need a break from knives?

What stands out most from your post is that the best part of this journey really came from the people, not the consumerism.
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Re: Reveal, lack of anticipation, general thoughts.

#5

Post by Doc Dan »

I fir one like the reveal program. And I like it for this reason. No longer am I seeing something announced that I never get to actually handle or see in the stores or have a chance to buy. I would like a little bit of modification however. I would like to see them leak some other upcoming designs that they’re working on even if they’re prototypes. Just tell us they don’t know if this will come to market or not and then use the reveal program to show us what’s actually coming out within the next few months.

The program also helps me to budget. I cannot possibly buy everything and sometimes I pass on something I would really like to have because there’s something else coming out that I want more. The reveal program really helps me in my budgeting. I don’t buy knives that require detents as a general rule. I don’t completely avoid them but I give priority to back locks and CBBL etc.
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Re: Reveal, lack of anticipation, general thoughts.

#6

Post by Doc Dan »

PaleMoon wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:00 pm
Maybe you need a break from knives?

What stands out most from your post is that the best part of this journey really came from the people, not the consumerism.
I don’t think this is a fair assessment. I think he has some legitimate frustrations with the current situation that has nothing to do with needing a break from lives. I think he would rather have more engagement with them and part of the fun was the hunt. I do miss pre-map days as well. But it is what it is .
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Re: Reveal, lack of anticipation, general thoughts.

#7

Post by curlyhairedboy »

I didn't become a Spyderco fan until well after MAP was implemented, so I can't say whether or not my collection habits would have been affected.

That said, I probably would have spent a lot more on older models if they had S30v steel or better. As to the Reveals, it's an improvement in my opinion. I think it helps them manage expectations given their limited manufacturing capacity.
EDC Rotation: PITS, Damasteel Urban, Shaman, Ikuchi, Amalgam, CruCarta Shaman, Sage 5 LW, Serrated Caribbean Sheepsfoot CQI, XHP Shaman, M4/Micarta Shaman, 15v Shaman
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Special and Sentimental: Southard, Squarehead LW, Ouroboros, Calendar Para 3 LW, 40th Anniversary Native, Ti Native, Calendar Watu, Tanto PM2
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Re: Reveal, lack of anticipation, general thoughts.

#8

Post by Evil D »

The reveal has only effected my excitement level. MAP has put a lot of models out of my price range, or at the very least has made me prioritize what I buy. I also used to buy more "risky" knives that I wasn't sure I'd like but that has gone away or they just get returned more often if I'm not absolutely in love with them. In a way this is a good thing, it makes me appreciate what I have more but it has definitely impacted sales.
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Re: Reveal, lack of anticipation, general thoughts.

#9

Post by Monty »

My only other experience with MAP is an optics manufacturer. There you see a lot of people only buying from the secondary market and retailers selling "demos, display units, combo packages" etc to bring in sales. Smaller retailers also lose out (or drop the line) to those with greater online presence.

The problem I have with Spyderco's MAP program is the secondary market is home to the numerous really convincing fake/clone/copies. I see on all the boards someone repeating the mantra "buy new from a reputable dealer" if you want to avoid a fake. With the secondary market as it is, I'm reluctant to buy used and buying a wide selection new to just test a different model is prohibitively expensive. Right now I only own variations of 4 Spyderco models because I know they work for me.
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Re: Reveal, lack of anticipation, general thoughts.

#10

Post by senorsquare »

Liquid Cobra wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:36 pm
...I guess that last paragraph isn’t totally true. I know that the Slysz Swayback, Kapara slipjoint and BladeHQ Dodo are coming. But those were mostly announced or hinted at prior to the new reveal program...
I had forgotten about the Slysz Swayback. I handled the prototype at Blade 2015 and that was an amazing knife. I don't know what has happened to this one in the past four years but I do hope to see it available some day. Definitely the one Spyderco release I would be most excited about.
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Re: Reveal, lack of anticipation, general thoughts.

#11

Post by curlyhairedboy »

Monty wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:34 am
My only other experience with MAP is an optics manufacturer. There you see a lot of people only buying from the secondary market and retailers selling "demos, display units, combo packages" etc to bring in sales. Smaller retailers also lose out (or drop the line) to those with greater online presence.

The problem I have with Spyderco's MAP program is the secondary market is home to the numerous really convincing fake/clone/copies. I see on all the boards someone repeating the mantra "buy new from a reputable dealer" if you want to avoid a fake. With the secondary market as it is, I'm reluctant to buy used and buying a wide selection new to just test a different model is prohibitively expensive. Right now I only own variations of 4 Spyderco models because I know they work for me.
I'd agree that you've gotta be wary on the secondary for a bunch of the highest volume models. Sprints and rare discontinued models happily seem to be less prone to counterfeiting, though.

The type of community you're buying from also matters.
EDC Rotation: PITS, Damasteel Urban, Shaman, Ikuchi, Amalgam, CruCarta Shaman, Sage 5 LW, Serrated Caribbean Sheepsfoot CQI, XHP Shaman, M4/Micarta Shaman, 15v Shaman
Fixed Blades: Proficient, Magnacut Mule
Special and Sentimental: Southard, Squarehead LW, Ouroboros, Calendar Para 3 LW, 40th Anniversary Native, Ti Native, Calendar Watu, Tanto PM2
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Re: Reveal, lack of anticipation, general thoughts.

#12

Post by wrdwrght »

I foresee my jets cooling for many of the reasons mentioned. Moreover, I don’t have the completist’s drive.

I’m not quite there, but I do admire Vivi’s resolve to pare his knives to the essentials, and I like his criteria.

I know I’m not “there” yet because I’m thrilled to have just received my first actual Endura (I see now that my two Pac Salts are only quasi-Enduras). Talk about a paring down! I really, really like this knife. As I said when I got my first Delica, I might not have the “better” Spydies I do had I gotten the Endura first.

How is it that Spyderco can deliver such high quality (VG10 and FRN being high-quality, for anyone still wondering) at such an affordable price, relative to “better” Spydies?
Last edited by wrdwrght on Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Reveal, lack of anticipation, general thoughts.

#13

Post by A.S.O.K.A »

When it comes to spyderco for me, its the different steels and collaboration models. If it wasnt for those two things, I would have only owned two spyderco knives and thats it. Getting knives in different steels really resparked my ineterest in collecting knives again. Now, while still looking to get another new steel to add to my collection and test, I have started to dip my toes into the world of regrinding. My first subject for regrinding is the coyote urban. When I finalize that, I might regrind my shaman. Also, I'm looking to make some custom scales. I can also say that spydercos in different steels help respark what I wanted to do, which is make my own knives. For now, I'll slowly mod the ones that I have while collecting more spydercos in steel I havent used or tested yet :)
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Re: Reveal, lack of anticipation, general thoughts.

#14

Post by Hopweaver »

I find myself slowing down collecting after the Reveal program was announced. Not because I do not like Spyderco knives, but because my excitement is lower and I am on the forum less. I wonder if they can check forum traffic. I imagine it is down since the Reveal program was announced. I used to check the forum daily to see if a new knife was finally being released. And all of the chatter about upcoming knives seemed to be more prevalent on here too. With less knives being announced, there seems to be less to talk about.
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Re: Reveal, lack of anticipation, general thoughts.

#15

Post by steelcity16 »

Hopweaver wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:04 pm

I find myself slowing down collecting after the Reveal program was announced. Not because I do not like Spyderco knives, but because my excitement is lower and I am on the forum less. I wonder if they can check forum traffic. I imagine it is down since the Reveal program was announced. I used to check the forum daily to see if a new knife was finally being released. And all of the chatter about upcoming knives seemed to be more prevalent on here too. With less knives being announced, there seems to be less to talk about.

Yet sprints, exclusives, and new models are selling out faster than ever. Not sure the reveal approach is perfect, but it doesn't seem to be hurting sales.
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Re: Reveal, lack of anticipation, general thoughts.

#16

Post by SG89 »

I got to a point where I had "been there done that" and needed to slow down. I discovered exactly what I want in a knife through trial and error and realistically evaluating my uses. Are different blade grinds, different color scales, different steel types cool? **** yes.
But I don't need for my uses anything besides a:
backlock or comp lock folder
under 3" blade length
Strongly prefer wire clip
Must be FFG PE
Stainless steel preferably s30v or similar

With all that in mind i still can get excited over all the new knives that are produced, i just don't need to own them. Seeing other people get excited on the forum over different knives makes me feel good. Also despite my limited preferences for knives i still love the Reveal bc it feels like Christmas morning. Also all the rumors that pop up over new stuff that Sal will mention or someone online will disclose.
I will be first in line for that dang Swayback tho.
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Re: Reveal, lack of anticipation, general thoughts.

#17

Post by Ez556 »

I arrived after MAP so I can’t comment on that, but I think the new reveal program is nice. Patience is a virtue, but in today’s economy if someone hears about something and can’t buy it soon, they move on to something else. It is very nice to hear about the Para 3 LW for instance, and then be able to actually buy it within a couple months. As forum members we do still get sneak peeks too, like the Lil’ Native Lightweight that I know is being worked on even though there’s been no official announcement. It also helps keep them somewhat accountable, if they say a knife is coming, they are really held to a somewhat fixed time table rather than ending up in a situation like the Military 2 which may or may not ever happen even though it was at one point talked about. It really helps me prioritize my money and spending. I want a Waterway which is out now, the Micarta/Cruwear Shaman is coming soon so I need to be saving for that now and the Lil’ Native FRN is coming, but it hasn’t been announced so I don’t need to worry about preparing myself for that one. The reveal helps me categorize my list into a nice A, B and C. Granted, the Micarta/Cruwear Shaman wasn’t part of a reveal per se, but it was displayed at the last show so I know it’s coming.
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Re: Reveal, lack of anticipation, general thoughts.

#18

Post by marty_bill_ »

Well for myself I've been collecting for sometime. I got serious about it in 2006. And I collected various brands. But Spyderco imho is a top tier knife company. I like the reveal program and the hunt for me is never over. I enjoy learning different types of steels and geometry of blades best suited for my cutting needs. This is such an enthusiastic bunch about knives! I truly enjoy that. And when someone figures out things I hadn't even thought of before and shared that information. Take for instance backlocks. For me they were boring and outdated. Until I had tried other locks and other knives. Nowadays I've learned that back locks are my favorite type. And just work for my needs perfectly. Its when I switch and try something different do I learn what actually is better. I do tend to prefer larger knives with 4" blades or so. One other thing is with new stuff continually coming out I think right now is a golden era in knife community.
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Re: Reveal, lack of anticipation, general thoughts.

#19

Post by JuPaul »

I'm pretty new to actual intentional collecting...can someone explain MAP to me? From what I've pieced together, Spyderco sets an MSRP, and then dealers can only sell a knife at a certain percentage below that MSRP, is that about it? So basically, it eliminates bargain hunting? I guess that pricing rule changes if something goes on clearance or gets discontinued?
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Re: Reveal, lack of anticipation, general thoughts.

#20

Post by knivesandbooks »

Nothing against the new reveal system. I just haven't been interested. I've been finding better values from other companies lately. I'm still looking toward Spyderco for cool steels, but other than that, nothing has impressed (besides the Waterway, I want that). I've been on a traditional knife and fixed blade kick, too, so that has been pushing Spyderco back from my life. All the models that peak my interest have something wrong in my mind. Peel ply carbon fiber (so many models), overly thick grinds (Paysan or Techno 2), or are just not great value for cost and are derivative, such as the Native Chief or the Endela. Idk. I've got all the classics that made me love the brand and sprints of many of these. I've got some of the good and useful desgner models like the Spydiechef, Slsyz Bowie, Advocate. Idk, I'm suffering from a lack of interest, I guess. That plus increased costs with nothing gained have me just being happy with what I own.
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