Compendium of tips for sharpening serrated knives

[vivi]

Yes just be gentle no need to apply much pressure flats against flats 5 to 10 times back and forth then do corners against corners in sections like sharpening a kitchen knife on a steel just be sure to clean them first Barkeepers friend works well.

When doing this feel for the rods dragging more against each other then you are done. Brown rods put off an odor.

After doing this once I have never needed to do it again.

I tried this with my brown stones that are a few years old and saw no difference.

[Wartstein]

Yes just be gentle no need to apply much pressure flats against flats 5 to 10 times back and forth then do corners against corners in sections like sharpening a kitchen knife on a steel just be sure to clean them first Barkeepers friend works well.

When doing this feel for the rods dragging more against each other then you are done. Brown rods put off an odor.

After doing this once I have never needed to do it again.

I tried this with my brown stones that are a few years old and saw no difference.

I´ll try with mine, that are also a few years old, and post here if I can see any effect.

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

Mine were new when I did this so perhaps mileage will very?

[Wartstein]

....
All suggestions, feedback and discussion is encouraged. I will not limit the list to my own advice.

.....

Vivi, I can remember you recently stated something along he lines "diamond coated rods are crucial for sharpening SE knives" (correct me if I recall that wrong!), but not in which thread you did.

But my question fits THIS thread best anyway, so let me ask:

Why are diamond coated (or probably alternatively CBN rods) crucial for sharpening SE knives, or, to put it better, "more crucial" than when it comes to sharpening PE knives??

I mean, as long as the edge already has the desired angle and you´re just KEEPING it sharp, shoul the corners of brown / white rods not be sufficient enough, just like the flats for PE blades?

And IF you want or have to reprofile the blade: In that case diamond coated rods would be better for PE as well as for SE edges, right?

[vivi]

....
All suggestions, feedback and discussion is encouraged. I will not limit the list to my own advice.

.....

Vivi, I can remember you recently stated something along he lines "diamond coated rods are crucial for sharpening SE knives" (correct me if I recall that wrong!), but not in which thread you did.

But my question fits THIS thread best anyway, so let me ask:

Why are diamond coated (or probably alternatively CBN rods) crucial for sharpening SE knives, or, to put it better, "more crucial" than when it comes to sharpening PE knives??

I mean, as long as the edge already has the desired angle and you´re just KEEPING it sharp, shoul the corners of brown / white rods not be sufficient enough, just like the flats for PE blades?

And IF you want or have to reprofile the blade: In that case diamond coated rods would be better for PE as well as for SE edges, right?

I may have mis-typed that post.

If you keep your edge maintained, the standard sharpmaker is sufficient.

What I think the diamonds / cbns are essential for is repair and bringing back a really dull edge.

If you look at the awesome Caribbean torture thread, theres a picture posted where the edge is marked in sharpie and the 15 degree setup was only hitting the shoulder of the bevel.

Diamond rods are essential for bringing an edge like that back to 15 degrees, or taking chips and bends out of the edge.

I've tried reprofiling SE Spydercos ground at 20 degrees + to 15 degrees with both the brown rods and diamond rods. Won't ever use the brown rods for that again, took forever.

If you never let your knife get completely dull, and can avoid damaging it, the brown rods will work fine.

EDIT: Guess that caribbean picture was in a different thread, didn't see it when I looked for it so I could post it here too.

[Wartstein]

....
All suggestions, feedback and discussion is encouraged. I will not limit the list to my own advice.

.....

Vivi, I can remember you recently stated something along he lines "diamond coated rods are crucial for sharpening SE knives" (correct me if I recall that wrong!), but not in which thread you did.

But my question fits THIS thread best anyway, so let me ask:

Why are diamond coated (or probably alternatively CBN rods) crucial for sharpening SE knives, or, to put it better, "more crucial" than when it comes to sharpening PE knives??

I mean, as long as the edge already has the desired angle and you´re just KEEPING it sharp, shoul the corners of brown / white rods not be sufficient enough, just like the flats for PE blades?

And IF you want or have to reprofile the blade: In that case diamond coated rods would be better for PE as well as for SE edges, right?

I may have mis-typed that post.

If you keep your edge maintained, the standard sharpmaker is sufficient.

What I think the diamonds / cbns are essential for is repair and bringing back a really dull edge.

If you look at the awesome Caribbean torture thread, theres a picture posted where the edge is marked in sharpie and the 15 degree setup was only hitting the shoulder of the bevel.

Diamond rods are essential for bringing an edge like that back to 15 degrees, or taking chips and bends out of the edge.

I've tried reprofiling SE Spydercos ground at 20 degrees + to 15 degrees with both the brown rods and diamond rods. Won't ever use the brown rods for that again, took forever.

If you never let your knife get completely dull, and can avoid damaging it, the brown rods will work fine.

EDIT: Guess that caribbean picture was in a different thread, didn't see it when I looked for it so I could post it here too.

Thanks, Vivi!! I´ve ordered CBN rods anyway (together with a backup black handled Pac Salt SE... :rolleyes: . Which I am gonna sell again if the Pac Salt 2 will suit me even better. Which will be not easy, but from what I can say now is I slightly prefer the E4 handle over the E3 / Pac Salt one, though both are very ergonomic for me).

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

What is the difference between CBN and Diamond?

[vivi]

....
All suggestions, feedback and discussion is encouraged. I will not limit the list to my own advice.

.....

Vivi, I can remember you recently stated something along he lines "diamond coated rods are crucial for sharpening SE knives" (correct me if I recall that wrong!), but not in which thread you did.

But my question fits THIS thread best anyway, so let me ask:

Why are diamond coated (or probably alternatively CBN rods) crucial for sharpening SE knives, or, to put it better, "more crucial" than when it comes to sharpening PE knives??

I mean, as long as the edge already has the desired angle and you´re just KEEPING it sharp, shoul the corners of brown / white rods not be sufficient enough, just like the flats for PE blades?

And IF you want or have to reprofile the blade: In that case diamond coated rods would be better for PE as well as for SE edges, right?

I may have mis-typed that post.

If you keep your edge maintained, the standard sharpmaker is sufficient.

What I think the diamonds / cbns are essential for is repair and bringing back a really dull edge.

If you look at the awesome Caribbean torture thread, theres a picture posted where the edge is marked in sharpie and the 15 degree setup was only hitting the shoulder of the bevel.

Diamond rods are essential for bringing an edge like that back to 15 degrees, or taking chips and bends out of the edge.

I've tried reprofiling SE Spydercos ground at 20 degrees + to 15 degrees with both the brown rods and diamond rods. Won't ever use the brown rods for that again, took forever.

If you never let your knife get completely dull, and can avoid damaging it, the brown rods will work fine.

EDIT: Guess that caribbean picture was in a different thread, didn't see it when I looked for it so I could post it here too.

Thanks, Vivi!! I´ve ordered CBN rods anyway (together with a backup black handled Pac Salt SE... :rolleyes: . Which I am gonna sell again if the Pac Salt 2 will suit me even better. Which will be not easy, but from what I can say now is I slightly prefer the E4 handle over the E3 / Pac Salt one, though both are very ergonomic for me).

I think I know a potential buyer

[TkoK83Spy]

What is the difference between CBN and Diamond?

I've heard that Diamond may cut a little bit faster, but that CBN tends to last longer and stays attached to the rods better? Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that's what I read a number of times before buying my CBN rods last year. I have zero complaints about them either. I've reprofiled 4 knives in various steels on these rods and they still work great! Finishing up my AEB-L Urban within the next few days if I find the free time.

[Pelagic]

What is the difference between CBN and Diamond?

I've heard that Diamond may cut a little bit faster, but that CBN tends to last longer and stays attached to the rods better? Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that's what I read a number of times before buying my CBN rods last year. I have zero complaints about them either. I've reprofiled 4 knives in various steels on these rods and they still work great! Finishing up my AEB-L Urban within the next few days if I find the free time.

That is my understanding as well. I've heard they yield a more uniform edge as well.

[JD Spydo]

What is the difference between CBN and Diamond?

I've heard that Diamond may cut a little bit faster, but that CBN tends to last longer and stays attached to the rods better? Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that's what I read a number of times before buying my CBN rods last year. I have zero complaints about them either. I've reprofiled 4 knives in various steels on these rods and they still work great! Finishing up my AEB-L Urban within the next few days if I find the free time.

Yeah that's pretty much the way I heard it too. Although once you get the hang of it the diamond rods won't wear out badly. You've just got to not put heavy pressure on them like you might do on the ceramic stones.

[vivi]

What is the difference between CBN and Diamond?

I've heard that Diamond may cut a little bit faster, but that CBN tends to last longer and stays attached to the rods better? Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that's what I read a number of times before buying my CBN rods last year. I have zero complaints about them either. I've reprofiled 4 knives in various steels on these rods and they still work great! Finishing up my AEB-L Urban within the next few days if I find the free time.

Yeah that's pretty much the way I heard it too. Although once you get the hang of it the diamond rods won't wear out badly. You've just got to not put heavy pressure on them like you might do on the ceramic stones.

You should never use heavy pressure when sharpening, whether diamond or ceramic.

[Wartstein]

Thanks, Vivi!! I´ve ordered CBN rods anyway (together with a backup black handled Pac Salt SE... :rolleyes: . Which I am gonna sell again if the Pac Salt 2 will suit me even better. Which will be not easy, but from what I can say now is I slightly prefer the E4 handle over the E3 / Pac Salt one, though both are very ergonomic for me).

I think I know a potential buyer

So I´ll perhaps allow myself to send you a pm then if I happen to like the Pac Salt 2 better (and YOU still the Pac Salt 1more of course! )

[Wartstein]

Vivi, I'd have a question:

I remember you saying something along the lines, that each Pac Salt SE you got came with an factory angle of 15 degree (one side in that case), so this model was the only one (one of the few?) you did not have to reprofile it to make it meet your preferences (correct me if I am wrong, that´s just what I recall!)

Now: When I use the sharpmaker in the 15 degree slot on my Pac Salt, the rod clearly hits the blade quite high above the apex on the "shoulder" (don´t know if this is the correct english term). See first pic below
On the other hand, when using the 20 degree setting I can get it sharp very quickly.

I am experienced enough with the sharpmaker to keep the correct angle, for comparison I used the 15 degree setting on my HAP 40 Endura, and it clearly hit the apex (see second pic below).

So: Did I get you wrong? Or are there variants between Pac Salt models?

To be clear: I am perfectly happy with my Pac Salt as it is and don´t care at all with what particular factory angle it comes. I am just courious.

[vivi]

Vivi, I'd have a question:

I remember you saying something along the lines, that each Pac Salt SE you got came with an factory angle of 15 degree (one side in that case), so this model was the only one (one of the few?) you did not have to reprofile it to make it meet your preferences (correct me if I am wrong, that´s just what I recall!)

Correct. I have reprofiled every PE Spyderco that I've kept around. My Pacific Salt's with the 15 degree SE are the only ones that felt thin enough at the edge to leave at the factory angle.

Now: When I use the sharpmaker in the 15 degree slot on my Pac Salt, the rod clearly hits the blade quite high above the apex on the "shoulder" (don´t know if this is the correct english term). See first pic below
On the other hand, when using the 20 degree setting I can get it sharp very quickly.

Your terminology is correct. I've read reports from a few others that their Pacific Salts did not come ground at 15 degrees like mine. No idea why there is such a variance, but it isn't unusual based on what I've read. Every SE Pacific Salt I've sharpened matched the 15 degree slots perfectly. I own 5 and have touched up a few for friends.....they all matched.

I am experienced enough with the sharpmaker to keep the correct angle, for comparison I used the 15 degree setting on my HAP 40 Endura, and it clearly hit the apex (see second pic below).

So: Did I get you wrong? Or are there variants between Pac Salt models?

Nope, this is normal. Not sure if there is any pattern to which Pacific Salts got which edge, but for what it's worth I've never sharpened a yellow handled SE Pacific, only black handled SE and PE, and a few PE with yellow handles. Aside from that I can't think of any patterns between the 15 and 20 degree Pacifics.

To be clear: I am perfectly happy with my Pac Salt as it is and don´t care at all with what particular factory angle it comes. I am just courious.

If I were you I'd simply use it as is if you're happy with it. Even if it came with a 20 degree edge, that's still much thinner than a typical PE factory knife. Reprofiling SE knives isn't fun (Not that PE are), and it's easy to round the points in the process.

My SE Pacific with the black blade has been sharpened for years and still has very pointy teeth. My satin finished that was mangled when I traded for it was reprofiled before I carried it and the tips are quite rounded off now. I think someday that knife will turn into PE :p

[Wartstein]

Vivi, I'd have a question:

I remember you saying something along the lines, that each Pac Salt SE you got came with an factory angle of 15 degree (one side in that case), so this model was the only one (one of the few?) you did not have to reprofile it to make it meet your preferences (correct me if I am wrong, that´s just what I recall!)

Correct. I have reprofiled every PE Spyderco that I've kept around. My Pacific Salt's with the 15 degree SE are the only ones that felt thin enough at the edge to leave at the factory angle.

Now: When I use the sharpmaker in the 15 degree slot on my Pac Salt, the rod clearly hits the blade quite high above the apex on the "shoulder" (don´t know if this is the correct english term). See first pic below
On the other hand, when using the 20 degree setting I can get it sharp very quickly.

Your terminology is correct. I've read reports from a few others that their Pacific Salts did not come ground at 15 degrees like mine. No idea why there is such a variance, but it isn't unusual based on what I've read. Every SE Pacific Salt I've sharpened matched the 15 degree slots perfectly. I own 5 and have touched up a few for friends.....they all matched.

I am experienced enough with the sharpmaker to keep the correct angle, for comparison I used the 15 degree setting on my HAP 40 Endura, and it clearly hit the apex (see second pic below).

So: Did I get you wrong? Or are there variants between Pac Salt models?

Nope, this is normal. Not sure if there is any pattern to which Pacific Salts got which edge, but for what it's worth I've never sharpened a yellow handled SE Pacific, only black handled SE and PE, and a few PE with yellow handles. Aside from that I can't think of any patterns between the 15 and 20 degree Pacifics.

To be clear: I am perfectly happy with my Pac Salt as it is and don´t care at all with what particular factory angle it comes. I am just courious.

If I were you I'd simply use it as is if you're happy with it. Even if it came with a 20 degree edge, that's still much thinner than a typical PE factory knife. Reprofiling SE knives isn't fun (Not that PE are), and it's easy to round the points in the process.

My SE Pacific with the black blade has been sharpened for years and still has very pointy teeth. My satin finished that was mangled when I traded for it was reprofiled before I carried it and the tips are quite rounded off now. I think someday that knife will turn into PE :p

Thanks for your reply!

Yes, as said, I am absolutely happy with my Pac Salt the way it is! :) Glad, that you recommended it to me.

I guess I´ll sharpen it on the 20 degree setting, but still use my new CBN rods in the 15 degree setting additionally so to make it even thinner behind the edge or even reprofile it over time.

I would not mind if the teeth got just a bit rounded off (or a bit "shorter"). My SE Endela has "shorter" and "rounder" teeth from the factory as far as I can see, and I think I like that (Sure the Endela is ffg, and the Pac Salt hollow / sabre, that´s an important difference too).

[tonijedi]

My Salt 2 also matches the 20 degrees slot much better than the 15 degrees. The 15 degrees hit on the top of the serrations.

[Wartstein]

My Salt 2 also matches the 20 degrees slot much better than the 15 degrees. The 15 degrees hit on the top of the serrations.

Just as on my Pac Salt (see some posts above), right?

[JD Spydo]

I have just one issue with all of this. And please don't misunderstand me because the stuff that VIVI has put out on this thread is great. But I still take one issue. I really like to sharpen some of my Spyderedged/serrated blades manually with my Spyderco 701 Profiles. And it does obtain a great job if you take your time and make your angles correct.

I find that I can keep them looking factory new if I do it right. But the 701 Profiles aren't just good for patented Spyderco serrations (Spyderedge) they can take on about 85% of all the serration patterns out there. It never hurts to learn to do some skills manually. OH I use my Sharpmaker a lot as well. But I will never retire any of my 701 Profiles.

I also want to check out VEFF and their sharpening tool for serrations as well.

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

JD Save your money I have the VEFF diamond rods as well as the 701 with Brown and white rods.

The VEFF are in the same class as the Diamond rods for the sharp maker but not quite as good in my experience.

Tell ya what PM me and pay the postage and you can have mine.