Compendium of tips for sharpening serrated knives

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bbturbodad
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Re: Compendium of tips for sharpening serrated knives

#161

Post by bbturbodad »

The Meat man wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:02 pm
Beautiful! What did you use for the sharpening?
Thanks! I used a Sharpmaker and just angled the blade a few degrees from perpendicular toward the rod. CBN->Med then a few stopping passes on the edge of a basswood block loaded with 1um CBN emulsion.
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Re: Compendium of tips for sharpening serrated knives

#162

Post by Wartstein »

pantagana23 wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:04 pm
Evil D wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:00 pm
Well yeah if you use the flat sides of the Sharpmaker rods, that's why you use the corners. They get into each serration individually and sharpen the entire edge.
Interesting.
If you do sharpen like that, you can get into all parts of the blade.
My fault watching one to many videos where they show that it should be sharpened like a plain edge.

So the corner of the Sharpmaker stones is a bit round?

I recommend that you just read the very first post of this thread, it tells you about everything you need to know about sharpening SE on a sharpmaker...

There is also Vivis vid concerning the topic: https://youtu.be/Ptmx1iJELhU
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: Compendium of tips for sharpening serrated knives

#163

Post by 208 tim »

Found this thread in a search. Have to say, perfect for my most recent purchase. Fantastic!
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Re: Compendium of tips for sharpening serrated knives

#164

Post by Enactive »

I wanted to bump this thread. If you are tentative or curious about sharpening SE edges, check out this thread from the beginning.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84544&hilit=https%3 ... tmx1iJELhU

Over the past ~year i have gained a bit of skill and confidence sharpening serrated edges. The community here and knowledge sharing, combined with the SharpMaker have really facilitated my increased enthusiasm for serrated edges.

I have used and carried my Byrd Rescue as a gardening and work knife for some time and find it both useful and easy to keep sharp. I have also taken to sharpening the many cheap Victorinox paring knives that bang around our kitchen. The SharpMaker makes this task a breeze, although i guess the same can be done with the edge of a stone.

This experience led me to want to try out some FFG SE blades in "better" steels. I have been wanting to try LC200n in SE after loving it in PE edges, and i wanted to try SE S30V, H1 and an SE hawkbill. After much consideration, i ended up ordering three smallish SE knives.

They are: the Native Salt in SE, the Lil Native Backlock in SE and the Dragonfly Salt Hawkbill.
IMG_20200620_090407sm.jpg
So far i am very pleased with all 3. I already knew that i quite like my PE Native Salt, so that was easy.

Then I challenged myself a bit to try smaller Spyderco models. I really like the entire Native family and quite surprised how much i like the Lil. The Dragonfly is also cool. I think i would like it in a wharncliffe blade too.

Do we know any more about a possible K390 DFly Wharncliffe?
Cambertree wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 7:01 pm
Yes the Wharncliffe Delica was confirmed previously. I’ve been trying to confirm whether the Dragonfly Wharncliffe will also be part of the lineup though.

The Dragonfly, Stretch 2, and Delica Wharny are all top of my list.

Also the Dragonfly Wharny if it gets the K390 treatment.

Wartstein has me looking at a Endela as well, but ideally it’d be great to see a SE version - if K390 works ok in SE.

Regarding the Police LW, was there a ZDP189 version on the cards before the K390 one?

It’s a bit of a long shot, but I’d also probably go for a G10 Dragonfly if that makes it into the lineup.

I am really curious to hear how the SE K390 testing goes.
sal wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:08 pm
Hi Pilgrim,

I currently testing a serrated P4 to see if K390 would support a serration.

sal
I like how all three of these knives have a small plain edge section at the tip. I think the 1-1.5 cm of chisel ground PE at the tip may be plenty for most fine work i might need to do most of the time. Interestingly, of the three, the Lil Native has the longest bit of PE at the tip. The utility performance of all 3 has been outstanding so far. Excellent first impressions all around.

Thanks all for sharing your knowledge and skills on sharpening and other things. :D :cool: :spyder:

Thanks, Sal for Spyderco. And please let us know any news you can share on K390 SE testing and model line up details (in particular are the Dragonfly Wharncliffe and the Stretch 2 drop point included in the K390 production?) or upcoming/ new sharpening tools coming to market.

P.S. Edited to Add-- An SE Chaparral would be really cool.
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Re: Compendium of tips for sharpening serrated knives

#165

Post by Evil D »

I totally missed that K390 serrations comment from Sal. I'd definitely give it a try.
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Re: Compendium of tips for sharpening serrated knives

#166

Post by Wartstein »

Thanks, Enactive, this really is a thread that deserves to be bumped frequently!

Í´ll just take the opportunity once more to adress all folks that are maybe rather new to the forum and/or SE: Should you shy away from SE cause you think it would be hard to sharpen: Get a sharpmaker, read the very first post of this thread, maybe watch the vid linked there. Sharpening SE is no problem at all, in fact for me even a bit quicker and easier than PE (and I am generally really not good at sharpening at all, believe me!).
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: Compendium of tips for sharpening serrated knives

#167

Post by Evil D »

Wartstein wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:58 pm
in fact for me even a bit quicker and easier than PE (and I am generally really not good at sharpening at all, believe me!).


This has probably been the most surprising part of my SE journey. I honestly get WAY sharper edges off the Sharpmaker with SE than I do PE and I really don't know why that is. It takes no time at all to get SE sharp enough to pluck hair off my arm without touching skin but it takes more effort to get that with PE.
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Re: Compendium of tips for sharpening serrated knives

#168

Post by Wartstein »

Evil D wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:02 pm
Wartstein wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:58 pm
in fact for me even a bit quicker and easier than PE (and I am generally really not good at sharpening at all, believe me!).


This has probably been the most surprising part of my SE journey. I honestly get WAY sharper edges off the Sharpmaker with SE than I do PE and I really don't know why that is. It takes no time at all to get SE sharp enough to pluck hair off my arm without touching skin but it takes more effort to get that with PE.
That´s what I found too. I thought it might be due to the chisel grind? Maybe in that the bevel is ground only on one side makes dealing with a burr easier for a non-sharpening-pro like I am? (Just sharpen only one side and remove the burr only on the other side)
But then from what I know you have a lot more experience and skills with sharpening than I do, so this can´t be true for you I guess.

Regardless, sharpmaker and spyderegde is just a very nice combination! :)
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: Compendium of tips for sharpening serrated knives

#169

Post by vivi »

Bumping this thread with a new video:

https://streamable.com/7lpkll

I've been using a brand new fine rod to maintain my new Pacific Salt 2.

I use back and forth strokes at 15 degrees, grinding the presentation side multiple times for every stroke I do on the back.

I've found that after I rock the blade and feel the bevel click into place, using back and forth strokes without lifting the blade off the stone makes it easier to maintain the angle.

I finish with strokes in one direction, alternating sides every stroke and using very light pressure.

I always use a fresh corner of my stone for the finishing strokes, and clean the stone every 3 or 4 touch-ups.

I often use an older fine stone for the initial sharpening, and save the new one for the finishing strokes. That lets me go longer between cleanings.

If I ever damage the apex, I'll switch to a coarser rod for the first part.

Laying the rod flat to finish the PE tip is a technique I use with other knives as well. I typically get better edges on my full PE knives using the sharpmaker in this fashion compared to how its designed to be used.
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Re: Compendium of tips for sharpening serrated knives

#170

Post by Wartstein »

vivi wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:17 pm
Bumping this thread with a new video:

https://streamable.com/7lpkll

I've been using a brand new fine rod to maintain my new Pacific Salt 2.

I use back and forth strokes at 15 degrees, grinding the presentation side multiple times for every stroke I do on the back.

I've found that after I rock the blade and feel the bevel click into place, using back and forth strokes without lifting the blade off the stone makes it easier to maintain the angle.

I finish with strokes in one direction, alternating sides every stroke and using very light pressure.

.......

Hope all who STILL think it is hard to sharpen SE will watch this vid... ;)

So you don´t necessarely focus on keeping the blade perpendicular to the ground on the 30 degree setting (15 degree for the presentation side), but more or mainly on that the bevel "clicks in place" at the right angle (and might be actually sharpened at a bit more or less than 15 degrees)?
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: Compendium of tips for sharpening serrated knives

#171

Post by JMM »

I'm still learning to sharpen SE/CE blades, this is fantastic, thank you!

Cheers,

John
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Re: Compendium of tips for sharpening serrated knives

#172

Post by Wartstein »

JMM wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:36 pm
I'm still learning to sharpen SE/CE blades, this is fantastic, thank you!

Cheers,

John
Make sure to also read Vivis initial post of this very thread (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84544#p1349519), watch the vids there and also the sharpmaker instruction vid where Sal shows how to sharpen SE.

Believe me, it's easy (with a sharpmaker at least), for me meanwhile easier than sharpening PE.
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: Compendium of tips for sharpening serrated knives

#173

Post by vivi »

Wartstein wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:47 pm
vivi wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:17 pm
Bumping this thread with a new video:

https://streamable.com/7lpkll

I've been using a brand new fine rod to maintain my new Pacific Salt 2.

I use back and forth strokes at 15 degrees, grinding the presentation side multiple times for every stroke I do on the back.

I've found that after I rock the blade and feel the bevel click into place, using back and forth strokes without lifting the blade off the stone makes it easier to maintain the angle.

I finish with strokes in one direction, alternating sides every stroke and using very light pressure.

.......

Hope all who STILL think it is hard to sharpen SE will watch this vid... ;)

So you don´t necessarely focus on keeping the blade perpendicular to the ground on the 30 degree setting (15 degree for the presentation side), but more or mainly on that the bevel "clicks in place" at the right angle (and might be actually sharpened at a bit more or less than 15 degrees)?
Yes, I go by feel more than anything.

If the knife is ground at 20 degrees I'd recommend using that slot instead of 15. One of my Pacific Salt 1 back-ups is ground at 20, while all my other Pacific Salt 1 and 2's seem to be 15.
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Re: Compendium of tips for sharpening serrated knives

#174

Post by Wartstein »

vivi wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:29 pm
Wartstein wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:47 pm
vivi wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:17 pm

Hope all who STILL think it is hard to sharpen SE will watch this vid... ;)

So you don´t necessarely focus on keeping the blade perpendicular to the ground on the 30 degree setting (15 degree for the presentation side), but more or mainly on that the bevel "clicks in place" at the right angle (and might be actually sharpened at a bit more or less than 15 degrees)?
Yes, I go by feel more than anything.

If the knife is ground at 20 degrees I'd recommend using that slot instead of 15. One of my Pacific Salt 1 back-ups is ground at 20, while all my other Pacific Salt 1 and 2's seem to be 15.
Yes, I think we talked about this some time ago... My Pac Salt definitely is (at least close to) 20, not 15.
There even was a theory out there, that the BLACK Pac Salts are ground at 15, the YELLOW at 20 (I don´t think so though)

One more question: You sharpen the short PE part towards the tip separately and "free hand" like on a traditional sharpening stone. Is this worth the effort? The PE part is chisel grind, just like the serrated one, and the sharpening angle rather similar (though maybe a bit less acute?). So wouldn´t it be easier to always just quickly sharpen the whole blade (SE and PE part) at once?

On the other hand: Due to the chisel grind it is very easy to find the right angle on the PE part when sharpening on the flat lying rod (a bit like it is with a scandi grind), which is a good way to get a feel for "free hand sharpening" generally.

(Remark for folks who might be very new to SE and CE blades: On Spydercos COMBO-edged knives (so NOT full SE), the (much longer compared to full SE) PE part is NOT chisel grind (at least on Delica and Endura), but has a traditional V shape. So here this part is to sharpen separately anyway (since the SE part still IS chisel grind)
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: Compendium of tips for sharpening serrated knives

#175

Post by vivi »

I do the tip like that because its easier to avoid dragging the tip off the stone. While using the corners I aim to stop a little shy of the tip so I don't slip off and round it.
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Re: Compendium of tips for sharpening serrated knives

#176

Post by Wartstein »

vivi wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:29 am
I do the tip like that because its easier to avoid dragging the tip off the stone. While using the corners I aim to stop a little shy of the tip so I don't slip off and round it.
Thanks! That actually makes sense...
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: Compendium of tips for sharpening serrated knives

#177

Post by tonijedi »

vivi wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:29 am
I do the tip like that because its easier to avoid dragging the tip off the stone. While using the corners I aim to stop a little shy of the tip so I don't slip off and round it.
Before doing so I couldn't get the PE part of my Salt 2 decently sharp.
I have much better results now, using this method.
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Re: Compendium of tips for sharpening serrated knives

#178

Post by Wartstein »

tonijedi wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:45 am
vivi wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:29 am
I do the tip like that because its easier to avoid dragging the tip off the stone. While using the corners I aim to stop a little shy of the tip so I don't slip off and round it.
Before doing so I couldn't get the PE part of my Salt 2 decently sharp.
I have much better results now, using this method.

Guess I´ll switch to this method too. As said, the bevel is so wide on the PE part of the chisel ground SE Pac Salt, that "free hand" is really easy and fun even for an at max average-joe-sharpener like me... :)
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: Compendium of tips for sharpening serrated knives

#179

Post by Bill1170 »

Another bump to this excellent thread.

Today I reprofiled my SE hawkbill Ladybug Salt on my Sharpmaker. The serrations were very obtuse, to where I was only hitting the shoulder with the 20 degrees-per-side setting. After several hours with the CBN rod I finally hit the apex. The original bevel must have been around 30 degrees, because the new bevel at 20 degrees is easily twice as wide.

I was concerned that I’d strip the CBN off the rod corners with all that grinding, but they held up great, still cutting well towards the end. This lends credence to the notion that the CBN is harder to dislodge from the rod than the diamonds are.

After refining with brown and white rods it push cuts printer paper decently, though needs work to equal my Pacific Salt. I ran out of day.
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Re: Compendium of tips for sharpening serrated knives

#180

Post by T.J. »

Thank you for your video Vivi. Very helpful!
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