Well you're mostly right in that it's very close to 30, so I wouldn't say it's any less than 25 on that side. Because of that I do think I'm gonna go with 30 on the back side too so maybe the edge is a bit stronger.
It felt down right reckless taking a brand new edge to a diamond rod. It seems to be sharpening it fairly evenly, but I do think the humps of the teeth are flatter/thinner now. That could be a good thing as far as slicing goes but will also make them more likely to chip or bend.
David, tbh, I don't fully understand your post: You literally mean, the edge of your Caribbean is not "any less than 25 on that side?? So if it was not chiselgrind, but a regular V-grind you'd have an edge of 50 to 60 inclusive?
And you go with 30 on the backside?
You probably mean the 30 degree inklusive setting on the Sharpmaker, right (so 15 per side)?
Yeah sorry I was more referring to the Sharpmaker settings. The edge itself is more like 15-20 or so inclusive from the factory. If the serration side is ground at 15 then the back side is chisel, you have to take into account the angle of the blade grind itself since that's what comes down to the edge and it's at least a few degrees. If you sharpen the back side of the blade at 15 also (on the 30 setting on the Sharpmaker) you'll get a 30 inclusive bevel eventually, even if the back side bevel is very very small.
Thanks for clarifying, that's what I thought...
I think we've discussed this already in another thread, but anyway: I could sharpen my Endela SE from the very first day on very quickly using the 30 degree setting of the SM (for the scalloped side), so it must have come already in quite precisely 15 degrees incl. (15 on one side, almost zero on the other).
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
As you can see, the serration patterns are not the same. The large scallops on the byrd are smaller that the Jumpmaster, and the Jumpmaster's are significantly smaller than those of the the pacific salt. I also have a coworker who owns an Atlantic salt, and his serrations are MUCH more spikey than any of these knives. So much so, that a typical pass on the SM would not yield 100% contact with the bevel. It would skip over the smaller scallops, forcing you to work on those individually. This has made me think, how many spyderedges exist? There's at least 4 for you right there.
AFAIK the grinder they use to apply serrations to a blade changes shape slightly as it wears, which means the exact same model might come with differently proportioned serrations.
This is just based on stuff I've read, I have no first hand knowledge of the process.
Then on top of that they use some different patterns for their various models. I know their kitchen knives look a lot different than my Pacific Salts.
Side note, I was curious how 8Cr held up for you as far as corrosion resistance goes. Now I know.
AFAIK the grinder they use to apply serrations to a blade changes shape slightly as it wears, which means the exact same model might come with differently proportioned serrations.
This is just based on stuff I've read, I have no first hand knowledge of the process.
Then on top of that they use some different patterns for their various models. I know their kitchen knives look a lot different than my Pacific Salts.
Side note, I was curious how 8Cr held up for you as far as corrosion resistance goes. Now I know.
These variations in size are quite large. More than what grinder wear would explain imo.
The 8cr is ok, with casual maintenance there is still pitting. But at $25 per knife, I don't care to treat it like royalty haha.
I strongly suspect that Taichung are grinding theirs by hand or maybe a robotic arm, it almost looks like the blade gets a standard chisel ground bevel and then the serrations are cut into that. Otherwise they're using a grinding wheel that's shaped different from any other pattern I've seen. The teeth have flat spots on them that look like what's left of a standard bevel and they're much more round than other patterns I've seen.
Vivi, I read in other threads that you often times only use the brown (=grey) rods of the Sharpmaker (generally, but my question here only concerning SE knives).
Now Sal recommends in the instructional DVD (https://youtu.be/5LBDnJv5B58 , SE part starting at 19:20) to better only use the white stones for SE blades, cause the browns could potentially distort the serrations, especially when going too fast.
What's your opinion on that? Probably the DVD is aimed more towards very unexperienced people (concerning sharpening) and gives guidelines in a way so that they really could do nothing wrong whatsoever (but are not necessarely achieving the very best possible or fastest results)?
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
Unless you're constantly touching up your edge, using only the white rods would take a while.
Right!
Though one of the view things I can say given my very limited sharpening skills: VG10 on my PE knives is a steel that I can touch up amazingly fast just on the WHITE stones (let's say from hardly or not any more cutting printer paper to cleanly and effortless cutting it).
Now I have to find out yet what works best for me with my first (fully) serrated Spydie, the Endela (also VG10).
But my question was aimed more towards Sals statement in the DVD, that one could literally distort (damage?) the serrations when using the brown rods...
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
Vivi, I read in other threads that you often times only use the brown (=grey) rods of the Sharpmaker (generally, but my question here only concerning SE knives).
Now Sal recommends in the instructional DVD (https://youtu.be/5LBDnJv5B58 , SE part starting at 19:20) to better only use the white stones for SE blades, cause the browns could potentially distort the serrations, especially when going too fast.
What's your opinion on that? Probably the DVD is aimed more towards very unexperienced people (concerning sharpening) and gives guidelines in a way so that they really could do nothing wrong whatsoever (but are not necessarely achieving the very best possible or fastest results)?
Sal has to protect the ignorant (no insult there intended). If he doesn't mention that and someone goes and grinds all the teeth off their new knife then he has to deal with an unhappy customer. I haven't had any issues using the brown rods so far and I've used them quite a lot. Of course with any kind of sharpening, you are wearing away the bevel and eventually it'll get pretty shallow but only after a lot of use. Right now I'm experimenting with the diamond rods and aside from rounding the teeth (which I prefer) and mellowing out how "lumpy" the serrations are, I haven't had any concerns using diamonds so far. It probably isn't a great idea to jump right in with either of these rods if you aren't at least proficient with the Sharpmaker, let alone with sharpening serrations.
I’ve been using the sharpmaker for over 15 years but have only recently learned I was using too much pressure. So there’s that.
Yep, two of the most important tips:
Don´t use too much pressure
And, especially when it comes to SE knives (and so only using the corners of the rods); Clean your rods frequently
(Btw: I am really happy to bump Vivis thread by typing this reply, since it (the thread, not my post... ) is so valuable and usefull, so I hope people who perhaps missed it, can have a look at it now).
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
And don’t forget crack those rods by rubbing them together.
Is this true now or is it a myth? I honestly heard (read) both...
I tend to think, you really don´t have to do it, but what do I know?
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
Vivi I can't agree with you enough when you raise the point of keep your sharpening stones clean and well maintained. Personally I rarely sharpen more than 2 knives ( folders or fixed blades) on any stones before giving them a really thorough cleaning with "Bar Keeper's Friend" cleanser. The cleaner the stone is the more uniform the bite and the more consistent the abrasion pattern is. Diamond stones probably being about the only exception to that rule in most cases. Especially with these Spyderco ceramic stones. They give super results when the stones are properly cleaned and maintained.
Also when using the 204 Sharpmaker for doing up serrated blades ( Spyderco or anyone else's) I find it extremely important to have it to where the base of the tool is clamped on solid. The less movement you have with the set up of the 204 Sharpmaker the better results you will obtain. Personallly I use "Vice Grip" "11 P welding clamps but a good friend of mine uses a set of woodworker clamps which do well overall. By having your hands totally free it's amazing how much control you gain.
And don’t forget crack those rods by rubbing them together.
Is this true now or is it a myth? I honestly heard (read) both...
I tend to think, you really don´t have to do it, but what do I know?
I have noticed after doing so that the rods are more aggressive and I have actually smelled something in the air when doing so with the brown rods.
Thanks for your reply! As said, I have no idea from personal experience if rubbing the rods together initially (I did not do so with mine) actually will improve their performance or not, but since you actually tried, I just believe YOUR experience
One thing I wonder though: What about the corners of the rods? Did you rub those together too?
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
Well give it a go, rub the flats and the corners it does work no need to press hard just rub. I forget who On this forum suggested it but it was shocking to see how week it worked.
Well give it a go, rub the flats and the corners it does work no need to press hard just rub. I forget who On this forum suggested it but it was shocking to see how week it worked.
So you recommend still doing so, even now that the rods of my SM are very well worn in already?!
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
Yes just be gentle no need to apply much pressure flats against flats 5 to 10 times back and forth then do corners against corners in sections like sharpening a kitchen knife on a steel just be sure to clean them first Barkeepers friend works well.
When doing this feel for the rods dragging more against each other then you are done. Brown rods put off an odor.
After doing this once I have never needed to do it again.
) is so valuable and usefull, so I hope people who perhaps missed it, can have a look at it now).