Lightweight EDC fixed blade idea

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Regular production Mule

Yes
17
52%
No
16
48%
 
Total votes: 33

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Tims
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Lightweight EDC fixed blade idea

Postby Tims » Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:52 am

Who would be keen to see a regular production EDC fixed blade based on the well known Mule pattern?

Frn handle Jumpmaster/Enuff style.
Vg10, bd1n? Potential Salt version in LC or H1, PE & SE
Boltaron Sheath.
Exact same Mule pattern so compatible with existing aftermarket scales

Most of the hard work has been done in the Mule, it only needs frn scales.

What would you call it? Mule 2?
Last edited by Tims on Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: EDC fixed blade idea

Postby The Deacon » Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:11 am

The average price for the Mules, without scales or sheath, has been around $70 to $75 and that's been on direct sales, so is probably closer to wholesale than MAP. Bolatron sheath is $30. FRN scales would require expensive tooling and would probably cost at least $25. IMHO, the Bow River is a much better looking knife, a more practical design, and will have a US Street price under $35 when it becomes available. For something with better steel, I'd go with the Moran Drop Point in VG10 for about $110 which is still cheaper than Mule + sheath + scales.
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Re: Lightweight EDC fixed blade idea

Postby Tims » Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:12 am

Those are all very different knives. I edited my original post to remove “affordable” as that’s not really the focus of the knife

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Re: EDC fixed blade idea

Postby Doc Dan » Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:44 am

The Deacon wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:11 am
The average price for the Mules, without scales or sheath, has been around $70 to $75 and that's been on direct sales, so is probably closer to wholesale than MAP. Bolatron sheath is $30. FRN scales would require expensive tooling and would probably cost at least $25. IMHO, the Bow River is a much better looking knife, a more practical design, and will have a US Street price under $35 when it becomes available. For something with better steel, I'd go with the Moran Drop Point in VG10 for about $110 which is still cheaper than Mule + sheath + scales.
Good values, so I like your list. I would also rather have a Waterway or Aqua Salt than a Mule shaped blade.
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Re: Lightweight EDC fixed blade idea

Postby standy99 » Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:59 am

Have a few mules so no need for me....
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Evil D
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Re: Lightweight EDC fixed blade idea

Postby Evil D » Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:05 am

I just want an ARK with a wharnie blade. I don't think I could handle having something as big as a Mule hanging around my neck unless I was camping or something.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
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Re: Lightweight EDC fixed blade idea

Postby TomAiello » Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:43 am

If you made it in a mid range steel, it would be in competition with the Moran, Enuff, Ka-Bar Snody Boss (retail around $110), etc. That's a fairly crowded space.

If you made it in a lower end steel it would have to compete with the Bow River (and a profusion of cheap Moras, which are almost impossible to beat for value)

What if you made it in a high end steel? What's the competition there? Original mules of course, but what else?

I'm trying to think of when I'd carry this in preference to something else I have. I like the Mules because I can rotate steel and keep the scales and sheath, and try out new stuff. Not sure if I'd ever really use a Mule pattern FB that didn't give me that option.

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Re: Lightweight EDC fixed blade idea

Postby Tims » Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:45 pm

I can see this knife being redundant to those who already own Mules. I thought I read the Mules were being discoed? This would be a way to keep the pattern alive. In 2 years when the only Mules you can get are on Ebay for $300, it would be nice to have a regular production option.
Competition doesn’t seem like much of a hurdle when you consider just about every new knife is competing with others in it’s class.
It’s 2019. Name a knife class that doesn’t have dozens of competing knives, yet they sell because they are different enough.
In reality, EDC fixed blades are one of the most underrepresented classes for Spyderco.

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Re: Lightweight EDC fixed blade idea

Postby Ez556 » Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:38 pm

Evil D wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:05 am
I just want an ARK with a wharnie blade. I don't think I could handle having something as big as a Mule hanging around my neck unless I was camping or something.
YES! Yes. This would be great. Yes. I’d love to see a Wharncliffe ARK, especially in something like BD1/BD1N or LC200N to keep it “salt”. I missed out on the Swick line, so a Wharncliffe ARK would certainly ride with me daily if it came about.
Likes FRN
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sal wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:28 am
But in reality, there is nothing quite like a gun. And it has been said, "The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun".
Sumdumguy wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:35 am
Does that complexity decrease the simplicity? Not at all.

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Re: Lightweight EDC fixed blade idea

Postby Tims » Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:42 pm

A wharnie ARK would be a cool little blade

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Re: Lightweight EDC fixed blade idea

Postby Evil D » Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:13 pm

Ez556 wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:38 pm
Evil D wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:05 am
I just want an ARK with a wharnie blade. I don't think I could handle having something as big as a Mule hanging around my neck unless I was camping or something.
YES! Yes. This would be great. Yes. I’d love to see a Wharncliffe ARK, especially in something like BD1/BD1N or LC200N to keep it “salt”. I missed out on the Swick line, so a Wharncliffe ARK would certainly ride with me daily if it came about.


I'd buy a LC200N SE wharnie ARK right now. I'd find a use for it.
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Re: Lightweight EDC fixed blade idea

Postby AccountDeletedUserRequest » Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:44 pm

Evil D wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:13 pm
Ez556 wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:38 pm
Evil D wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:05 am
I just want an ARK with a wharnie blade. I don't think I could handle having something as big as a Mule hanging around my neck unless I was camping or something.
YES! Yes. This would be great. Yes. I’d love to see a Wharncliffe ARK, especially in something like BD1/BD1N or LC200N to keep it “salt”. I missed out on the Swick line, so a Wharncliffe ARK would certainly ride with me daily if it came about.


I'd buy a LC200N SE wharnie ARK right now. I'd find a use for it.
I have one :D
Vivi wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:31 am
The Ark was mixed feelings at first sight.

I've wanted a tiny, FRN/H1 fixed blade to EDC for years. They're my favorite materials to have in a knife design. The Ark answered that wish.

However, it wasn't quite perfect. The generous belly just didn't work for me with such a small cutting edge. Things I tried to cut would slip right off the curved tip.

I've had an image in my mind for months now. An image of how the Ark could look if I ground it to a straight edge.

In addition to re-shaping the edge, I also wanted to eliminate the hump over the spyder hole. That hump is exactly where my thumb wants to go when I use my Ark, so I knew from day one I'd eventually grind it off.

Tonight I finally got around to finishing the mod I've had in mind for months.

I present to you the Spyderco Ark, re-imagined as a modified wharncliffe, or, an "Arkidashi"

Image

For reference, here is a stock Ark:

Image

My mod retains the same amount of cutting edge while utilizing a blade shape that offers superior control. The original reason I purchased an Ark was for an ultralight backpacking / biketouring knife, and not only does this mod lighten the knife, but it makes it perform better when doing camp food prep on a cutting board.

Image

Image

Image

My "Arkidashi" is working great so far. Slicing cardboard I'm not seeing it slip off the tip as often. Using a pinch grip on a cutting board I still have enough clearance to slice food with the straight edge portion of the blade. It's much more efficient dicing an onion, for example, compared to when it had a lot of belly. With the new blade shape, more of the edge can contact the cutting board.

Image

So who else is interested in an H1 wharncliffe fixed blade sized for EDC? Something in between the Ark and Enuff in size / weight? Maybe breed the Street Beat lightweight with the Ronin 2?

I think the Perrin / Janich collaboration in H1/LC200N with thin G10 scales, or something close to it, would make the perfect fixed blade EDC to compliment a folder with belly...

Image

I think wharncliffes and small blades go together like meat and potatoes. Blade shapes with belly that are under 2" long are often difficult to control in comparison.
I'm thinking about buying a SE and keeping the same blade shape but doing the spyderhole delete mod. I need to get around to ordering some kydex and making better sheaths too.

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Re: Lightweight EDC fixed blade idea

Postby Ez556 » Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:56 pm

:eek: That Janich/Perrin collab pictured is EXACTLY what I’d imagine a Wharncliffe ARK would look like! Or at least the ideal knife I’d buy!! Either skeleton or thin scales like what’s on the ARK now in LC200N or BD1N :D oooooh that would be sweet!
Likes FRN
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sal wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:28 am
But in reality, there is nothing quite like a gun. And it has been said, "The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun".
Sumdumguy wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:35 am
Does that complexity decrease the simplicity? Not at all.

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Ez556
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Re: Lightweight EDC fixed blade idea

Postby Ez556 » Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:03 pm

At that point I’m not sure if it’d be an ARK Wharncliffe or a Lil’ Ronin.
Likes FRN
:spyder: MEMBER OF THE CRUWEAR NATION :spyder:
sal wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:28 am
But in reality, there is nothing quite like a gun. And it has been said, "The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun".
Sumdumguy wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:35 am
Does that complexity decrease the simplicity? Not at all.

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Re: Lightweight EDC fixed blade idea

Postby hambone56rx » Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:09 pm

Evil D wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:05 am
I just want an ARK with a wharnie blade. I don't think I could handle having something as big as a Mule hanging around my neck unless I was camping or something.
YES!!! I was actually thinking of a drop point blade with micarta. To mimic this knife:

https://www.whiteriverknives.com/collec ... s/m1-caper

I love the feel of this knife, so I just need Spyderco to mimic it! I was thinking that the Ark is pretty close to this, but we need a different blade shape. And I'd like the micarta scares!

Hamilton

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Re: Lightweight EDC fixed blade idea

Postby spyderwolf » Sun Jul 28, 2019 2:04 am

Yes.We had this discussion and we even came up with the name.The Moderation.
Last edited by spyderwolf on Sun Jul 28, 2019 2:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: EDC fixed blade idea

Postby spyderwolf » Sun Jul 28, 2019 2:08 am

The Deacon wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:11 am
The average price for the Mules, without scales or sheath, has been around $70 to $75 and that's been on direct sales, so is probably closer to wholesale than MAP. Bolatron sheath is $30. FRN scales would require expensive tooling and would probably cost at least $25. IMHO, the Bow River is a much better looking knife, a more practical design, and will have a US Street price under $35 when it becomes available. For something with better steel, I'd go with the Moran Drop Point in VG10 for about $110 which is still cheaper than Mule + sheath + scales.
If and when the Bow River will apear, it will be a completely different flavour,and a production Mule made from cheap steel,with scales and sheath,at around 50$ will kill it.
Whenever there is any doubt, there is no doubt.

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Re: Lightweight EDC fixed blade idea

Postby spyderwolf » Sun Jul 28, 2019 2:12 am

Tims wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:45 pm
I can see this knife being redundant to those who already own Mules. I thought I read the Mules were being discoed? This would be a way to keep the pattern alive. In 2 years when the only Mules you can get are on Ebay for $300, it would be nice to have a regular production option.
Competition doesn’t seem like much of a hurdle when you consider just about every new knife is competing with others in it’s class.
It’s 2019. Name a knife class that doesn’t have dozens of competing knives, yet they sell because they are different enough.
In reality, EDC fixed blades are one of the most underrepresented classes for Spyderco.
The Mules are already well over 300$,if you take into consideration the costs of scales and sheath.
Whenever there is any doubt, there is no doubt.

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Tims
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Re: Lightweight EDC fixed blade idea

Postby Tims » Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:58 am

spyderwolf wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 2:12 am
Tims wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:45 pm
I can see this knife being redundant to those who already own Mules. I thought I read the Mules were being discoed? This would be a way to keep the pattern alive. In 2 years when the only Mules you can get are on Ebay for $300, it would be nice to have a regular production option.
Competition doesn’t seem like much of a hurdle when you consider just about every new knife is competing with others in it’s class.
It’s 2019. Name a knife class that doesn’t have dozens of competing knives, yet they sell because they are different enough.
In reality, EDC fixed blades are one of the most underrepresented classes for Spyderco.
The Mules are already well over 300$,if you take into consideration the costs of scales and sheath.
True. How much do you think a regular production lightweight frn version in say, vg10 would run? Considering an Enuff runs about $120. Much less than $300

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Re: EDC fixed blade idea

Postby The Deacon » Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:15 am

spyderwolf wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 2:08 am
If and when the Bow River will apear, it will be a completely different flavour,and a production Mule made from cheap steel,with scales and sheath,at around 50$ will kill it.

Which was exactly my point. Bow River will be an elegant looking knife, Mules look like mules.

As for cost. The least expensive Mule was MT05 in 9Cr18Mo. It sold for $20 ten years ago via direct sale, which is closer to wholesale than MAP. Like everything else, it would cost more today, so I suspect MAP price would be in the $35-$40 range for just the Mule. Sheath is currently $30 direct, so say $35 MAP. Scales would have to be priced to recoup the sizeable investment in the molds as well as all the other normal expenses and markups, so say $15 minimum MAP. That's already way more than the Bow River.


spyderwolf wrote: The Mules are already well over 300$,if you take into consideration the costs of scales and sheath.



And yet you can still get MT20 from Spyderco for $80 or the MT22 or MT27 for $70. Add $30 for the sheath and $45 for the G-10 scales and you'd be looking at $145 or S155, total, at least here in the USA.
Paul
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