Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?
Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:08 pm
SPY27 sounds logical, and good!
Yeah I would probably buy one instantly myself with a really nice blade steel and a Compression lock. I still like the original C-36 Military so much I could live with it another 3 to 5 years and be content. But what the heck if you can make it even better then why not. However the liner lock on all the different C-36 Military models I've had over the years have done very well for me. I've yet to ever have a Spyderco liner lock ever fail on me.
JD Spydo wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:32 pmYeah I would probably buy one instantly myself with a really nice blade steel and a Compression lock. I still like the original C-36 Military so much I could live with it another 3 to 5 years and be content. But what the heck if you can make it even better then why not. However the liner lock on all the different C-36 Military models I've had over the years have done very well for me. I've yet to ever have a Spyderco liner lock ever fail on me.
I've still never yet seen a compression lock as good as the one they used on the older/discontinued GUNTING model.
I think that in order to determine which lock is objectively better, you have to be able to define what makes a lock good.Wartstein wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:05 pmJD, it has been discussed a lot already in this thread (and elsewhere), but I still don´t get the idea that a comp. lock would make the Millie literally BETTER than it is with a linerlock.
A comp. lock is a great ALTERNATIVE, sure, but not better, just different.
For me personally (for the most part totally subjective of course! ) the linerlock even has clear advantages over the comp. lock, especially in a more "outdoorsy" folder (see earlier posts).
Others will prefer the comp. lock.
But a comp. lock Millie will not be objectively better than the current linerlock model, and if the former would actually replace the latter, that would be sad imho. One defining part ot the Millie for me is exactly its great and perfectly functioning linerlock...
I remember how my friend JD Spydo put it some month ago in this very thread: "If it ain´t broken then please don´t try to fix it "... :D (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84506&start=220#p1378961)
Is the Parata the only Spyderco that currently features a stop lock? Looks almost like a compression lock but actuated with thumb studs.
kennethsime wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:40 pmI think that in order to determine which lock is objectively better, you have to be able to define what makes a lock good.Wartstein wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:05 pmJD, it has been discussed a lot already in this thread (and elsewhere), but I still don´t get the idea that a comp. lock would make the Millie literally BETTER than it is with a linerlock.
A comp. lock is a great ALTERNATIVE, sure, but not better, just different.
For me personally (for the most part totally subjective of course! ) the linerlock even has clear advantages over the comp. lock, especially in a more "outdoorsy" folder (see earlier posts).
Others will prefer the comp. lock.
But a comp. lock Millie will not be objectively better than the current linerlock model, and if the former would actually replace the latter, that would be sad imho. One defining part ot the Millie for me is exactly its great and perfectly functioning linerlock...
I remember how my friend JD Spydo put it some month ago in this very thread: "If it ain´t broken then please don´t try to fix it "... :D (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84506&start=220#p1378961)
I don't have all the answers, of course, but to mind those things are:In my experience, the compression lock does all of these things better than any liner lock I've ever used, though I haven't owned a Military yet. What else do you think goes into a good lock?
- Strength and secure lockup. The knife should lock open securely, not close easily, and have little blade play if possible.
- Safety, in operating the lock. It should be difficult to cut yourself while closing the knife.
- Ease of use & comfort. You should be able to actuate the lock easily, and comfortably, even with gloves on.
The current Millie is definitely a great knife in it's own right, but I'm excited for a Compression lock and a 4-way position clip (or really just a right hand tip-up clip, but 4-way so that everyone gets their way).
Correct.kennethsime wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:44 pmIs the Parata the only Spyderco that currently features a stop lock? Looks almost like a compression lock but actuated with thumb studs.
Ok, that helps a lot!Pancake wrote: ↑Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:30 amCorrect.
It is kind of a shame, because in the original pattent for Stop lock is on the drawing clearly a Military, so more or less everybody hoped that Military 2 would have Stop lock.
Stop lock is completly different to Compression lock. In compression lock, there is a piece of liner compressed between blade tang and pin.
In stop lock, a rather big pin engages to blade tang, it is more close to Axis lock, or CBBL lock (or a backlock).
A picture is worth more then 1000 words.
Good points well taken Warstein :) But please do read a little closer. I did confine that suggestion of a Comp Lock to be similar to the one that they used in the older GUNTING model. Or an improved version of the Comp Lock. That Comp Lock on that GUNTING model has always intrigued me ever since I owned a couple of them. Also I did go on to say that I had never had a problem with any of the liner locks on any of the C-36 Military models that I have owned throughout the years. And you can translate that into saying "That I Would Be Content If They Elected To Stay With The LIner Lock" or even made some improvements on it.Wartstein wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:05 pmJD Spydo wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:32 pmYeah I would probably buy one instantly myself with a really nice blade steel and a Compression lock. I still like the original C-36 Military so much I could live with it another 3 to 5 years and be content. But what the heck if you can make it even better then why not. However the liner lock on all the different C-36 Military models I've had over the years have done very well for me. I've yet to ever have a Spyderco liner lock ever fail on me.
I've still never yet seen a compression lock as good as the one they used on the older/discontinued GUNTING model.
JD, it has been discussed a lot already in this thread (and elsewhere), but I still don´t get the idea that a comp. lock would make the Millie literally BETTER than it is with a linerlock.
A comp. lock is a great ALTERNATIVE, sure, but not better, just different.
For me personally (for the most part totally subjective of course! ) the linerlock even has clear advantages over the comp. lock, especially in a more "outdoorsy" folder (see earlier posts).
Others will prefer the comp. lock.
But a comp. lock Millie will not be objectively better than the current linerlock model, and if the former would actually replace the latter, that would be sad imho. One defining part ot the Millie for me is exactly its great and perfectly functioning linerlock...
I remember how my friend JD Spydo put it some month ago in this very thread: "If it ain´t broken then please don´t try to fix it "... :D (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84506&start=220#p1378961)
I'll concede the point about wearing gloves, the relief in the Military's handle is definitely larger than the relief on the comp lock. I do think they could modify that easily-enough for a comp lock Military. On the others, I guess I can only say that while I've never owned a Military, I'll take a compression lock over any other liner lock I've tried. To each their own. :DWartstein wrote: ↑Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:03 amOn your points:
- No doubt, the comp. lock is a stronger lock than the linerlock from all I know if one tries to push both locks deliberately to fail!
But that for me is just a theoretical advantage, cause in real life the Millie linerlock is more than strong enough (had a Millie myself, used it hard with no problems, and never, ever read or heard that a Millie lock would have actually failed due to "overload"
- "Not close easily":
I know some people say that a linerlock could be activated by accident and the knife close while in use. But to be honest: I don´t think that this is more likely than it is with a comp. lock. At least I can remember two guys on this very forum reporting that this was exactly what happened to them with a COMP. lock (!) (accidently closing on their fingers), but never about a linerlock...
- "Safety in operating the lock":
For me a win for the linerlock! Really, especially with a finger choil no normal person will cut themselves while operating a linerlock (Spydercos more budgetline (and by that maybe a bit BEGINNERS-line) folders all have linerlocks but NO "safety" fingerchoil, like the Millie has).
But when it comes to safety concerning dropping the knife while operating the lock, the linerlock is better than the comp lock, since you don´t have to move one finger to the"spine" of the handle (where the comp. lock tab sits), but the knife stays safer in your hand (fingers more wrapped around the handle when operating a linlerock).
- "You should be able to actuate the lock easily, and comfortably, even with gloves on": I am quite sure that most people who have used both a comp. lock and a Millie linerlock would say that use with gloves is where a linerlock especially shines! That is exactly why I think an outdoorsy folder like the Millie should keep the linerlock: For me (from real epxerience) a lot easier to operate with gloves or cold, wet, greasy,... fingers: Knife more natural in hand while operating the lock, and the linerlocktab is larger and easier to access than the comp.lock tab.
Thanks for your - as always - constructive reply and the interesting discussion! :)kennethsime wrote: ↑Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:36 pmI'll concede the point about wearing gloves, the relief in the Military's handle is definitely larger than the relief on the comp lock. I do think they could modify that easily-enough for a comp lock Military. On the others, I guess I can only say that while I've never owned a Military, I'll take a compression lock over any other liner lock I've tried. To each their own. :D
One of these days if I find a bargain on a plain-jane Millie I'll find some after-market Micarta scales for it. I think I won't really care what kind of lock it has at that point, as long as it doesn't fail.
JD Spydo wrote: ↑Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:17 amWartstein wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:05 pmGood points well taken Warstein :) But please do read a little closer. I did confine that suggestion of a Comp Lock to be similar to the one that they used in the older GUNTING model. Or an improved version of the Comp Lock. That Comp Lock on that GUNTING model has always intrigued me ever since I owned a couple of them. Also I did go on to say that I had never had a problem with any of the liner locks on any of the C-36 Military models that I have owned throughout the years. And you can translate that into saying "That I Would Be Content If They Elected To Stay With The LIner Lock" or even made some improvements on it.
And you are so right because that old cliche my late dad always used "If It Ain't Broke Then Please Don't Try To Fix It" is certainly apropos in this case But do consider this my friend>> it still never hurts to try to improve or modify even the best of models>> and I'll just let it go there. All in good spirit my friend :)
Thanks for your reply and my apologies for not reading your previous post thouroughly enough!
You raise good points, as always! And I am with you: It certainyl can´t hurt to try to improve even great models, and that´s what Spyderco does all the time anyway. Still, a comp. lock, even if it is the best version of it ever, is not necessarely an improvement over a linerlock for every person out there. And to be honest: Sometimes I think people (explicitly NOT you!) do dismiss a linerlock and think a comp. lock HAS to be better PERIOD, without really having tried and used both types extensively in various scenarios...
I guess you would need to wait and see what that configuration of the Military 2 is, to know if there is enough difference to want it.anycal wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:25 amJust thinking here...
How many of you not wanting the original Military to change, are going to be buying more of the current model. In its current configuraiton? Not just the exotic steel/handle combo. And not the hard core collectors among you. Those of you who have one or two models already. Will you buy one with M390 or 20CV if you already have the 204P? Will you buy a DLC S35VN if you already have one is S30V? I know my answer.
Would you absolutely not buy a Military 2 in K390, or Cruwear, or 10V?
I am guessing that the Military 2 would problably bring in more buyers. But that is something that Spyderco knows, or can project, better than you or me.
I like the current config, but I already have three. So I am pretty much done. Military 2 would probably change that.
Every time I look at spending $200 on a Military the Liner Lock & tip-down carry turn me away. $200 is basically my upper limit for knives, and $100 is a lot comfier. I almost jumped on a Forest Green CTS-204p Military on r/knife_swap the other day, but I've already spent my knife budget this month. I think if it was a tool steel I would have just done it. I think that's the big deal for me; if I'm going to spend $200, I want it my way.anycal wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:25 amJust thinking here...
How many of you not wanting the original Military to change, are going to be buying more of the current model. In its current configuraiton? Not just the exotic steel/handle combo. And not the hard core collectors among you. Those of you who have one or two models already. Will you buy one with M390 or 20CV if you already have the 204P? Will you buy a DLC S35VN if you already have one is S30V? I know my answer.
Would you absolutely not buy a Military 2 in K390, or Cruwear, or 10V?
I am guessing that the Military 2 would problably bring in more buyers. But that is something that Spyderco knows, or can project, better than you or me.
I like the current config, but I already have three. So I am pretty much done. Military 2 would probably change that.
anycal wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:25 amJust thinking here...
How many of you not wanting the original Military to change, are going to be buying more of the current model. In its current configuraiton? Not just the exotic steel/handle combo. And not the hard core collectors among you. Those of you who have one or two models already. Will you buy one with M390 or 20CV if you already have the 204P? Will you buy a DLC S35VN if you already have one is S30V? I know my answer.
Would you absolutely not buy a Military 2 in K390, or Cruwear, or 10V?
I am guessing that the Military 2 would problably bring in more buyers. But that is something that Spyderco knows, or can project, better than you or me.
I like the current config, but I already have three. So I am pretty much done. Military 2 would probably change that.