Military 2. What exactly is going on?

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archangel
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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby archangel » Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:08 pm

SPY27 sounds logical, and good!
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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Spydergirl88 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:56 pm

Will the military 2 have a 4 position clip like the PM2?
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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby JD Spydo » Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:32 pm

archangel wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:12 am
A Millie 2 CompLock is an instant purchase. As long as it's not lightweight, which I doubt...
Yeah I would probably buy one instantly myself with a really nice blade steel and a Compression lock. I still like the original C-36 Military so much I could live with it another 3 to 5 years and be content. But what the heck if you can make it even better then why not. However the liner lock on all the different C-36 Military models I've had over the years have done very well for me. I've yet to ever have a Spyderco liner lock ever fail on me.

I've still never yet seen a compression lock as good as the one they used on the older/discontinued GUNTING model.

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Wartstein » Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:05 pm

JD Spydo wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:32 pm
archangel wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:12 am
A Millie 2 CompLock is an instant purchase. As long as it's not lightweight, which I doubt...
Yeah I would probably buy one instantly myself with a really nice blade steel and a Compression lock. I still like the original C-36 Military so much I could live with it another 3 to 5 years and be content. But what the heck if you can make it even better then why not. However the liner lock on all the different C-36 Military models I've had over the years have done very well for me. I've yet to ever have a Spyderco liner lock ever fail on me.

I've still never yet seen a compression lock as good as the one they used on the older/discontinued GUNTING model.

JD, it has been discussed a lot already in this thread (and elsewhere), but I still don´t get the idea that a comp. lock would make the Millie literally BETTER than it is with a linerlock.
A comp. lock is a great ALTERNATIVE, sure, but not better, just different.
For me personally (for the most part totally subjective of course! ) the linerlock even has clear advantages over the comp. lock, especially in a more "outdoorsy" folder (see earlier posts).
Others will prefer the comp. lock.
But a comp. lock Millie will not be objectively better than the current linerlock model, and if the former would actually replace the latter, that would be sad imho. One defining part ot the Millie for me is exactly its great and perfectly functioning linerlock...

I remember how my friend JD Spydo put it some month ago in this very thread: "If it ain´t broken then please don´t try to fix it "... :D (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84506&start=220#p1378961)
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Pancake » Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:16 pm

If only it had the Stop lock, as it rumoured years ago....comp lock is ok, but the stop lock would be something different.
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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby kennethsime » Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:40 pm

Wartstein wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:05 pm
JD, it has been discussed a lot already in this thread (and elsewhere), but I still don´t get the idea that a comp. lock would make the Millie literally BETTER than it is with a linerlock.
A comp. lock is a great ALTERNATIVE, sure, but not better, just different.
For me personally (for the most part totally subjective of course! ) the linerlock even has clear advantages over the comp. lock, especially in a more "outdoorsy" folder (see earlier posts).
Others will prefer the comp. lock.
But a comp. lock Millie will not be objectively better than the current linerlock model, and if the former would actually replace the latter, that would be sad imho. One defining part ot the Millie for me is exactly its great and perfectly functioning linerlock...

I remember how my friend JD Spydo put it some month ago in this very thread: "If it ain´t broken then please don´t try to fix it "... :D (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84506&start=220#p1378961)
I think that in order to determine which lock is objectively better, you have to be able to define what makes a lock good.

I don't have all the answers, of course, but to mind those things are:
  • Strength and secure lockup. The knife should lock open securely, not close easily, and have little blade play if possible.
  • Safety, in operating the lock. It should be difficult to cut yourself while closing the knife.
  • Ease of use & comfort. You should be able to actuate the lock easily, and comfortably, even with gloves on.
In my experience, the compression lock does all of these things better than any liner lock I've ever used, though I haven't owned a Military yet. What else do you think goes into a good lock?

The current Millie is definitely a great knife in it's own right, but I'm excited for a Compression lock and a 4-way position clip (or really just a right hand tip-up clip, but 4-way so that everyone gets their way).
Lost to the Ages: C90GRE Stretch 1 ZDP-189 British Racing Green | C28GRE2 Dragonfly 2 ZDP-189 British Racing Green
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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby kennethsime » Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:44 pm

Pancake wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:16 pm
If only it had the Stop lock, as it rumoured years ago....comp lock is ok, but the stop lock would be something different.
Is the Parata the only Spyderco that currently features a stop lock? Looks almost like a compression lock but actuated with thumb studs.
Lost to the Ages: C90GRE Stretch 1 ZDP-189 British Racing Green | C28GRE2 Dragonfly 2 ZDP-189 British Racing Green
C12BK2W Matriarch 2 VG-10 Emerson Open | C81G2 Para Military 2 S30V

Currently Rotating: C81GPRGR2 Para Military 2 K390 Ranger Green | C223GPRGR Para 3 K390 Ranger Green
C90FPIV2 Stretch 2 Straight Spine, VG-10 Rit Dye'd Dark Apple Green | C223GP Para 3 S30V Green Canvas Micarta
C41BORE5 Native 5 Lightweight REX 45 Burnt Orange | C223BORE Para 3 Lightweight REX 45 Burnt Orange
C101GY2 Manix 2 Lightweight Maxamet Gray | C28GFG Dragonfly VG-10 Foliage Green

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Wartstein » Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:03 am

kennethsime wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:40 pm
Wartstein wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:05 pm
JD, it has been discussed a lot already in this thread (and elsewhere), but I still don´t get the idea that a comp. lock would make the Millie literally BETTER than it is with a linerlock.
A comp. lock is a great ALTERNATIVE, sure, but not better, just different.
For me personally (for the most part totally subjective of course! ) the linerlock even has clear advantages over the comp. lock, especially in a more "outdoorsy" folder (see earlier posts).
Others will prefer the comp. lock.
But a comp. lock Millie will not be objectively better than the current linerlock model, and if the former would actually replace the latter, that would be sad imho. One defining part ot the Millie for me is exactly its great and perfectly functioning linerlock...

I remember how my friend JD Spydo put it some month ago in this very thread: "If it ain´t broken then please don´t try to fix it "... :D (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84506&start=220#p1378961)
I think that in order to determine which lock is objectively better, you have to be able to define what makes a lock good.

I don't have all the answers, of course, but to mind those things are:
  • Strength and secure lockup. The knife should lock open securely, not close easily, and have little blade play if possible.
  • Safety, in operating the lock. It should be difficult to cut yourself while closing the knife.
  • Ease of use & comfort. You should be able to actuate the lock easily, and comfortably, even with gloves on.
In my experience, the compression lock does all of these things better than any liner lock I've ever used, though I haven't owned a Military yet. What else do you think goes into a good lock?

The current Millie is definitely a great knife in it's own right, but I'm excited for a Compression lock and a 4-way position clip (or really just a right hand tip-up clip, but 4-way so that everyone gets their way).

Now there IS another lock discussion again, my friend ;)
But I like to have it with you, since you always make very good points in a very constructive manner.

To get that out of the way once more:
I DO like the comp. lock, I DON`T think that the Millie linerlock is objectively better, just cause I personally prefer it!
But that is the point here: I also don´t think that a comp. lock Millie can OBJECTIVELY ever be the "better" Millie, but just an alternative that some might like over the linerlock Millie, but some won´t.

On your points:

- No doubt, the comp. lock is a stronger lock than the linerlock from all I know if one tries to push both locks deliberately to fail!
But that for me is just a theoretical advantage, cause in real life the Millie linerlock is more than strong enough (had a Millie myself, used it hard with no problems, and never, ever read or heard that a Millie lock would have actually failed due to "overload"
- "Not close easily":
I know some people say that a linerlock could be activated by accident and the knife close while in use. But to be honest: I don´t think that this is more likely than it is with a comp. lock. At least I can remember two guys on this very forum reporting that this was exactly what happened to them with a COMP. lock (!) (accidently closing on their fingers), but never about a linerlock...
- "Safety in operating the lock":
For me a win for the linerlock! Really, especially with a finger choil no normal person will cut themselves while operating a linerlock (Spydercos more budgetline (and by that maybe a bit BEGINNERS-line) folders all have linerlocks but NO "safety" fingerchoil, like the Millie has).
But when it comes to safety concerning dropping the knife while operating the lock, the linerlock is better than the comp lock, since you don´t have to move one finger to the"spine" of the handle (where the comp. lock tab sits), but the knife stays safer in your hand (fingers more wrapped around the handle when operating a linlerock).
- "You should be able to actuate the lock easily, and comfortably, even with gloves on": I am quite sure that most people who have used both a comp. lock and a Millie linerlock would say that use with gloves is where a linerlock especially shines! That is exactly why I think an outdoorsy folder like the Millie should keep the linerlock: For me (from real epxerience) a lot easier to operate with gloves or cold, wet, greasy,... fingers: Knife more natural in hand while operating the lock, and the linerlocktab is larger and easier to access than the comp.lock tab.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Pancake » Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:30 am

kennethsime wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:44 pm
Pancake wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:16 pm
If only it had the Stop lock, as it rumoured years ago....comp lock is ok, but the stop lock would be something different.
Is the Parata the only Spyderco that currently features a stop lock? Looks almost like a compression lock but actuated with thumb studs.
Correct.
It is kind of a shame, because in the original pattent for Stop lock is on the drawing clearly a Military, so more or less everybody hoped that Military 2 would have Stop lock.
Stop lock is completly different to Compression lock. In compression lock, there is a piece of liner compressed between blade tang and pin.
In stop lock, a rather big pin engages to blade tang, it is more close to Axis lock, or CBBL lock (or a backlock).
A picture is worth more then 1000 words.
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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby kennethsime » Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:18 am

Pancake wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:30 am
Correct.
It is kind of a shame, because in the original pattent for Stop lock is on the drawing clearly a Military, so more or less everybody hoped that Military 2 would have Stop lock.
Stop lock is completly different to Compression lock. In compression lock, there is a piece of liner compressed between blade tang and pin.
In stop lock, a rather big pin engages to blade tang, it is more close to Axis lock, or CBBL lock (or a backlock).
A picture is worth more then 1000 words.
Ok, that helps a lot!

Definitely reminds me of a modified backlock. I wonder how the strong it is compared to a back lock or compression lock?
Lost to the Ages: C90GRE Stretch 1 ZDP-189 British Racing Green | C28GRE2 Dragonfly 2 ZDP-189 British Racing Green
C12BK2W Matriarch 2 VG-10 Emerson Open | C81G2 Para Military 2 S30V

Currently Rotating: C81GPRGR2 Para Military 2 K390 Ranger Green | C223GPRGR Para 3 K390 Ranger Green
C90FPIV2 Stretch 2 Straight Spine, VG-10 Rit Dye'd Dark Apple Green | C223GP Para 3 S30V Green Canvas Micarta
C41BORE5 Native 5 Lightweight REX 45 Burnt Orange | C223BORE Para 3 Lightweight REX 45 Burnt Orange
C101GY2 Manix 2 Lightweight Maxamet Gray | C28GFG Dragonfly VG-10 Foliage Green

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby JD Spydo » Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:17 am

Wartstein wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:05 pm
JD Spydo wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:32 pm
archangel wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:12 am
A Millie 2 CompLock is an instant purchase. As long as it's not lightweight, which I doubt...
Yeah I would probably buy one instantly myself with a really nice blade steel and a Compression lock. I still like the original C-36 Military so much I could live with it another 3 to 5 years and be content. But what the heck if you can make it even better then why not. However the liner lock on all the different C-36 Military models I've had over the years have done very well for me. I've yet to ever have a Spyderco liner lock ever fail on me.

I've still never yet seen a compression lock as good as the one they used on the older/discontinued GUNTING model.

JD, it has been discussed a lot already in this thread (and elsewhere), but I still don´t get the idea that a comp. lock would make the Millie literally BETTER than it is with a linerlock.
A comp. lock is a great ALTERNATIVE, sure, but not better, just different.
For me personally (for the most part totally subjective of course! ) the linerlock even has clear advantages over the comp. lock, especially in a more "outdoorsy" folder (see earlier posts).
Others will prefer the comp. lock.
But a comp. lock Millie will not be objectively better than the current linerlock model, and if the former would actually replace the latter, that would be sad imho. One defining part ot the Millie for me is exactly its great and perfectly functioning linerlock...

I remember how my friend JD Spydo put it some month ago in this very thread: "If it ain´t broken then please don´t try to fix it "... :D (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84506&start=220#p1378961)
Good points well taken Warstein :) But please do read a little closer. I did confine that suggestion of a Comp Lock to be similar to the one that they used in the older GUNTING model. Or an improved version of the Comp Lock. That Comp Lock on that GUNTING model has always intrigued me ever since I owned a couple of them. Also I did go on to say that I had never had a problem with any of the liner locks on any of the C-36 Military models that I have owned throughout the years. And you can translate that into saying "That I Would Be Content If They Elected To Stay With The LIner Lock" or even made some improvements on it.

And you are so right because that old cliche my late dad always used "If It Ain't Broke Then Please Don't Try To Fix It" is certainly apropos in this case ;) But do consider this my friend>> it still never hurts to try to improve or modify even the best of models>> and I'll just let it go there. All in good spirit my friend :)

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby kennethsime » Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:36 pm

Wartstein wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:03 am
On your points:

- No doubt, the comp. lock is a stronger lock than the linerlock from all I know if one tries to push both locks deliberately to fail!
But that for me is just a theoretical advantage, cause in real life the Millie linerlock is more than strong enough (had a Millie myself, used it hard with no problems, and never, ever read or heard that a Millie lock would have actually failed due to "overload"
- "Not close easily":
I know some people say that a linerlock could be activated by accident and the knife close while in use. But to be honest: I don´t think that this is more likely than it is with a comp. lock. At least I can remember two guys on this very forum reporting that this was exactly what happened to them with a COMP. lock (!) (accidently closing on their fingers), but never about a linerlock...
- "Safety in operating the lock":
For me a win for the linerlock! Really, especially with a finger choil no normal person will cut themselves while operating a linerlock (Spydercos more budgetline (and by that maybe a bit BEGINNERS-line) folders all have linerlocks but NO "safety" fingerchoil, like the Millie has).
But when it comes to safety concerning dropping the knife while operating the lock, the linerlock is better than the comp lock, since you don´t have to move one finger to the"spine" of the handle (where the comp. lock tab sits), but the knife stays safer in your hand (fingers more wrapped around the handle when operating a linlerock).
- "You should be able to actuate the lock easily, and comfortably, even with gloves on": I am quite sure that most people who have used both a comp. lock and a Millie linerlock would say that use with gloves is where a linerlock especially shines! That is exactly why I think an outdoorsy folder like the Millie should keep the linerlock: For me (from real epxerience) a lot easier to operate with gloves or cold, wet, greasy,... fingers: Knife more natural in hand while operating the lock, and the linerlocktab is larger and easier to access than the comp.lock tab.
I'll concede the point about wearing gloves, the relief in the Military's handle is definitely larger than the relief on the comp lock. I do think they could modify that easily-enough for a comp lock Military. On the others, I guess I can only say that while I've never owned a Military, I'll take a compression lock over any other liner lock I've tried. To each their own. :D

One of these days if I find a bargain on a plain-jane Millie I'll find some after-market Micarta scales for it. I think I won't really care what kind of lock it has at that point, as long as it doesn't fail.
Lost to the Ages: C90GRE Stretch 1 ZDP-189 British Racing Green | C28GRE2 Dragonfly 2 ZDP-189 British Racing Green
C12BK2W Matriarch 2 VG-10 Emerson Open | C81G2 Para Military 2 S30V

Currently Rotating: C81GPRGR2 Para Military 2 K390 Ranger Green | C223GPRGR Para 3 K390 Ranger Green
C90FPIV2 Stretch 2 Straight Spine, VG-10 Rit Dye'd Dark Apple Green | C223GP Para 3 S30V Green Canvas Micarta
C41BORE5 Native 5 Lightweight REX 45 Burnt Orange | C223BORE Para 3 Lightweight REX 45 Burnt Orange
C101GY2 Manix 2 Lightweight Maxamet Gray | C28GFG Dragonfly VG-10 Foliage Green

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Wartstein » Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:43 am

kennethsime wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:36 pm
Wartstein wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:03 am
I'll concede the point about wearing gloves, the relief in the Military's handle is definitely larger than the relief on the comp lock. I do think they could modify that easily-enough for a comp lock Military. On the others, I guess I can only say that while I've never owned a Military, I'll take a compression lock over any other liner lock I've tried. To each their own. :D

One of these days if I find a bargain on a plain-jane Millie I'll find some after-market Micarta scales for it. I think I won't really care what kind of lock it has at that point, as long as it doesn't fail.
Thanks for your - as always - constructive reply and the interesting discussion! :)

"To each their own" is the perfect point we both can agree on, I guess ;)
Just as you personally prefer the comp. lock (and have valid reasons for that), I personally don´t find that it has any advantage over a good linerlock in my practical use, but rather one or two slight disadvantages (so I don´t need the "fingers never in the blade path-thing" at all, especially on a knife with finger choil. And I find the method one has to use to close a comp. lock that way a bit unsafe and unnatural concerning dropping the knife when you have really cold, numb fingers or are wearing thicker gloves. But that´s just me!)

I just SOO hope that a comp.lock Millie won´t actually REPLACE the great, current linerlock model. There are enough high quality comp lock Spydies out there, but really not too many (above the "budget line") options for those who prefer a good linerlock, especially in outdoors use...

Hope you´ll finf a Millie for you! And imho with Spyderco neither a linerlock, nor a comp. lock is anywhere near likely to fail on you... ;)
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Wartstein » Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:49 am

JD Spydo wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:17 am
Wartstein wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:05 pm
JD Spydo wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:32 pm
archangel wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:12 am
Good points well taken Warstein :) But please do read a little closer. I did confine that suggestion of a Comp Lock to be similar to the one that they used in the older GUNTING model. Or an improved version of the Comp Lock. That Comp Lock on that GUNTING model has always intrigued me ever since I owned a couple of them. Also I did go on to say that I had never had a problem with any of the liner locks on any of the C-36 Military models that I have owned throughout the years. And you can translate that into saying "That I Would Be Content If They Elected To Stay With The LIner Lock" or even made some improvements on it.

And you are so right because that old cliche my late dad always used "If It Ain't Broke Then Please Don't Try To Fix It" is certainly apropos in this case ;) But do consider this my friend>> it still never hurts to try to improve or modify even the best of models>> and I'll just let it go there. All in good spirit my friend :)

Thanks for your reply and my apologies for not reading your previous post thouroughly enough!

You raise good points, as always! And I am with you: It certainyl can´t hurt to try to improve even great models, and that´s what Spyderco does all the time anyway. Still, a comp. lock, even if it is the best version of it ever, is not necessarely an improvement over a linerlock for every person out there. And to be honest: Sometimes I think people (explicitly NOT you!) do dismiss a linerlock and think a comp. lock HAS to be better PERIOD, without really having tried and used both types extensively in various scenarios...
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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Evil D » Fri Jun 05, 2020 6:01 am

I fear that what may be happening here is, as time goes by people's needs are filled by other models, and even though we have this thread and seemingly lots of interest, if the sales of the standard Military are down they may not see a need for a Military 2. I know personally at this point this knife will have to be really really special to replace my Caribbean, and as time goes by people's tastes evolve just as mine have so I wonder how it'll be received if/when it does come out.
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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby anycal » Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:25 am

Just thinking here...

How many of you not wanting the original Military to change, are going to be buying more of the current model. In its current configuraiton? Not just the exotic steel/handle combo. And not the hard core collectors among you. Those of you who have one or two models already. Will you buy one with M390 or 20CV if you already have the 204P? Will you buy a DLC S35VN if you already have one is S30V? I know my answer.

Would you absolutely not buy a Military 2 in K390, or Cruwear, or 10V?

I am guessing that the Military 2 would problably bring in more buyers. But that is something that Spyderco knows, or can project, better than you or me.

I like the current config, but I already have three. So I am pretty much done. Military 2 would probably change that.
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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Mini2white » Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:15 pm

anycal wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:25 am
Just thinking here...

How many of you not wanting the original Military to change, are going to be buying more of the current model. In its current configuraiton? Not just the exotic steel/handle combo. And not the hard core collectors among you. Those of you who have one or two models already. Will you buy one with M390 or 20CV if you already have the 204P? Will you buy a DLC S35VN if you already have one is S30V? I know my answer.

Would you absolutely not buy a Military 2 in K390, or Cruwear, or 10V?

I am guessing that the Military 2 would problably bring in more buyers. But that is something that Spyderco knows, or can project, better than you or me.

I like the current config, but I already have three. So I am pretty much done. Military 2 would probably change that.
I guess you would need to wait and see what that configuration of the Military 2 is, to know if there is enough difference to want it.

I'm one of the buyers who would just buy it, try it out and see what the fuss is about.

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Sumdumguy » Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:47 pm

I want to see it happen. It's sure to be a fantastic knife, I imagine it would be SPY27.

A fluted Ti version would be very nice, make it LC200N and you can pick which arm or leg you want. :D

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby kennethsime » Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:52 pm

anycal wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:25 am
Just thinking here...

How many of you not wanting the original Military to change, are going to be buying more of the current model. In its current configuraiton? Not just the exotic steel/handle combo. And not the hard core collectors among you. Those of you who have one or two models already. Will you buy one with M390 or 20CV if you already have the 204P? Will you buy a DLC S35VN if you already have one is S30V? I know my answer.

Would you absolutely not buy a Military 2 in K390, or Cruwear, or 10V?

I am guessing that the Military 2 would problably bring in more buyers. But that is something that Spyderco knows, or can project, better than you or me.

I like the current config, but I already have three. So I am pretty much done. Military 2 would probably change that.
Every time I look at spending $200 on a Military the Liner Lock & tip-down carry turn me away. $200 is basically my upper limit for knives, and $100 is a lot comfier. I almost jumped on a Forest Green CTS-204p Military on r/knife_swap the other day, but I've already spent my knife budget this month. I think if it was a tool steel I would have just done it. I think that's the big deal for me; if I'm going to spend $200, I want it my way.

Thus, my constant clamoring for a Comp Lock Millie 2 in Ranger Green & K390. I'd also be ok with OD Canvas Micarta & K390 as a limited run just to test the waters. :-)
Lost to the Ages: C90GRE Stretch 1 ZDP-189 British Racing Green | C28GRE2 Dragonfly 2 ZDP-189 British Racing Green
C12BK2W Matriarch 2 VG-10 Emerson Open | C81G2 Para Military 2 S30V

Currently Rotating: C81GPRGR2 Para Military 2 K390 Ranger Green | C223GPRGR Para 3 K390 Ranger Green
C90FPIV2 Stretch 2 Straight Spine, VG-10 Rit Dye'd Dark Apple Green | C223GP Para 3 S30V Green Canvas Micarta
C41BORE5 Native 5 Lightweight REX 45 Burnt Orange | C223BORE Para 3 Lightweight REX 45 Burnt Orange
C101GY2 Manix 2 Lightweight Maxamet Gray | C28GFG Dragonfly VG-10 Foliage Green

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Evil D
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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Evil D » Fri Jun 05, 2020 3:28 pm

anycal wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:25 am
Just thinking here...

How many of you not wanting the original Military to change, are going to be buying more of the current model. In its current configuraiton? Not just the exotic steel/handle combo. And not the hard core collectors among you. Those of you who have one or two models already. Will you buy one with M390 or 20CV if you already have the 204P? Will you buy a DLC S35VN if you already have one is S30V? I know my answer.

Would you absolutely not buy a Military 2 in K390, or Cruwear, or 10V?

I am guessing that the Military 2 would problably bring in more buyers. But that is something that Spyderco knows, or can project, better than you or me.

I like the current config, but I already have three. So I am pretty much done. Military 2 would probably change that.



There are definitely a lot of people who fear change, and like you said they fear the change of something they may not be actively buying.


So, with that in mind I can fairly say I don't care what they do with the standard S30V Military. You can give it 10 different clip placement options, you can give it any lock in existence, you can give it 6 finger choils, it won't matter because I'm not looking to ever buy THAT knife ever again.


As a person who does like the standard Military, I would like to have the option to buy the current configuration Military in different/future steel options. What I "fear" is the idea of a Military 2 coming out, me not liking it at all, and then all these awesome sprint models coming out in steels that I'd love to try but only being offered in a knife that I don't like.


Now, the more clever of you are already clicking the quote button to tell me that ^^^^ That is exactly how people feel right now who don't like the current Military configuration and that's how they feel when sprints are offered in the current configuration. Right?


Part of me wants to say "too bad, deal with it, the Military is 20+ years in the making if you don't like it now you never will" while there is another part of me that looks at all the Delica/Endura variants that I've skipped over that understands how it feels to want to like something but not being able to. So, I get it.


I guess my official stance on this would be something like, go ahead and make the Military 2 however the masses want it, but in the future when the new fancy steels come around also give me a Military 1 sprint option (and make it in larger quantities so I don't have to fight to get one). That to me is the best of both worlds. The current Military doesn't even have to stay in production, since there probably isn't a mad demand for the standard S30V version, but those loyal to the original will still get to keep enjoying it in the future.


This is all also assuming that we don't all universally love the Military 2, which is probable to just about everyone except for those who are hardcore about disliking "unnecessary clip screw holes".
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David


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