Military 2. What exactly is going on?

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Sumdumguy
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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Sumdumguy » Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:22 am

Wartstein wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:14 am
Sumdumguy wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:00 am
Rutger wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:55 am
Just like Evil D mentioned i think an open back design is the best for the millie. I also think the liner lock is great for operation with gloves. Now the compression lock we are all used to is operated from the back of the knife. But can´t we mate the liner lock with the compression lock and have it be operated like a liner lock at the bottom, but with the benefits of the strength of a compression lock. Sure the fidget factor goes down, but it would make operation with gloves so much better.
And maybe you could design the compression lock so that it can be operated from both the top and bottom? That would make everyone happy. I understand that would take scales that are strong enough so that the metal liner isn't needed for structural strength.
If you want a liner lock, get an original Military. Let the rest of us who don't like liner locks have one to enjoy.

The liner lock is the only reason I haven't owned a Military yet. This will change that, finally.
Other than that "fingers never in the blade path when closing- thing" (which should really not be an issue for experienced knife users (but sure for beginners)
When I'm standing on top of a ladder 30+ feet in the air and need to use my knife in one hand while holding onto a wall or something I am cutting, I dont think it comes down to being a beginner. Maybe I just don't want to have to worry about where my fingers are in relation to a closing blade that can severely cut my fingers AND cause me to fall off the top of a ladder.

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Wartstein
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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Wartstein » Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:28 am

Sumdumguy wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:22 am
Wartstein wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:14 am
Sumdumguy wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:00 am
Rutger wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:55 am
Just like Evil D mentioned i think an open back design is the best for the millie. I also think the liner lock is great for operation with gloves. Now the compression lock we are all used to is operated from the back of the knife. But can´t we mate the liner lock with the compression lock and have it be operated like a liner lock at the bottom, but with the benefits of the strength of a compression lock. Sure the fidget factor goes down, but it would make operation with gloves so much better.
And maybe you could design the compression lock so that it can be operated from both the top and bottom? That would make everyone happy. I understand that would take scales that are strong enough so that the metal liner isn't needed for structural strength.
If you want a liner lock, get an original Military. Let the rest of us who don't like liner locks have one to enjoy.

The liner lock is the only reason I haven't owned a Military yet. This will change that, finally.
Other than that "fingers never in the blade path when closing- thing" (which should really not be an issue for experienced knife users (but sure for beginners)
When I'm standing on top of a ladder 30+ feet in the air and need to use my knife in one hand while holding onto a wall or something I am cutting, I dont think it comes down to being a beginner. Maybe I just don't want to have to worry about where my fingers are in relation to a closing blade that can severely cut my fingers AND cause me to fall off the top of a ladder.
Did not want to imply that YOU are a "beginner" by any means! My apologies if I came across like this.
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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Rutger » Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:41 am

Sumdumguy wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:13 am
I badly cut myself with one when I was a youngster and haven't used one since. I do enjoy the Mantra though. It has the flipper tab that acts as a kick on a backlock.

Unless there's a block to keep the blade away from it, I don't want my finger anywhere near a blade that cuts on contact.
I almost bought a Ti Military recently, but I just couldn't do it. Then the Military 2 thread started sounding off, so I guess it's a sign.

There are a few other issues related to working conditions that make it a more dangerous locking method for me. In the end, the reason is that the compression lock outperforms all other locks in working safety for me.
Fair enough.
But have you ever tried the liner lock military in hand? Because this model has a forward finger choil on the blade it never ever hits me with any sharp part of the blade on the thumb when closing it. I can open and close it blind without me having worries about cutting myself.

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Bloke » Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:47 am

Sumdumguy wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:22 am
the top of a ladder.
Image
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Evil D
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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Evil D » Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:01 am

I honestly have no real love for the liner locks in general, but I do believe it works really well for the Military and the intended use. I've used a Military with extremely thick wool mittens where your fine motor skills are cut down to just about nothing and I was still able to open and close my knife with no problems at all. I'm not so sure I can say the same about a liner lock (honestly I haven't done that particular job in years so I can't say). On one hand my current (and favorite) EDC is the Caribbean, so I'm getting by just fine so far with a compression lock but it's just now getting around to my first winter with it so we'll see how that changes when I'm wearing heavy gloves. I'm honestly really torn on this whole idea...on one hand I love the idea of a comp lock Military simply because I like the lock a lot more than a liner lock, but on the other hand I like to look at things from a more practical perspective than just choosing what I like and I do still feel pretty strongly that the liner lock is the ideal lock for the Military.

Either way I'm probably buying one so this is all just good conversation...no need for you guys to get all up in arms about it. The one thing I'm actually most concerned about isn't even the lock, it's the choil. I have a feeling the choil is going to be enlarged on the Military 2, and I'm probably in the minority when I say I don't want it any bigger than the original especially if it takes away edge length. Fortunately though I think I have 5 or 6 Military's already so if this new model isn't what I'm after it's not a big loss.
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Sumdumguy
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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Sumdumguy » Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:06 am

Wartstein wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:28 am
Sumdumguy wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:22 am
Wartstein wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:14 am
Sumdumguy wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:00 am


If you want a liner lock, get an original Military. Let the rest of us who don't like liner locks have one to enjoy.

The liner lock is the only reason I haven't owned a Military yet. This will change that, finally.
Other than that "fingers never in the blade path when closing- thing" (which should really not be an issue for experienced knife users (but sure for beginners)
When I'm standing on top of a ladder 30+ feet in the air and need to use my knife in one hand while holding onto a wall or something I am cutting, I dont think it comes down to being a beginner. Maybe I just don't want to have to worry about where my fingers are in relation to a closing blade that can severely cut my fingers AND cause me to fall off the top of a ladder.
Did not want to imply that YOU are a "beginner" by any means! My apologies if I came across like this.
Not at all, just demonstrating that you can't generalize an issue. They can affect more than one group.
Rutger wrote:
Sumdumguy wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:13 am
I badly cut myself with one when I was a youngster and haven't used one since. I do enjoy the Mantra though. It has the flipper tab that acts as a kick on a backlock.

Unless there's a block to keep the blade away from it, I don't want my finger anywhere near a blade that cuts on contact.
I almost bought a Ti Military recently, but I just couldn't do it. Then the Military 2 thread started sounding off, so I guess it's a sign.

There are a few other issues related to working conditions that make it a more dangerous locking method for me. In the end, the reason is that the compression lock outperforms all other locks in working safety for me.
Fair enough.
But have you ever tried the liner lock military in hand? Because this model has a forward finger choil on the blade it never ever hits me with any sharp part of the blade on the thumb when closing it. I can open and close it blind without me having worries about cutting myself.
Actually I have, but it was before my Mantra so I wouldn't have even thought about that at the time. I would have closed it by unlocking it an pushing it to the detent and then close it from there after moving my fingers.
The Mantra was an accident. I went to close it up after I received it and it popped past the detent and the flipper tab hit my finger. Huzzah!

Still not my favorite but useable.
Bloke wrote:
Sumdumguy wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:22 am
the top of a ladder.
Image
That's hilarious!

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dj moonbat
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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby dj moonbat » Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:21 am

sal wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:04 pm
blues wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:41 pm
sal wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:30 pm
I have a Compression lock prototype.

sal
Showoff!

:p

Guilty :o

sal
This is awesome news. But I have to play the “pics or it never happened” card, in hopes of getting Sal to show off even more.

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Pelagic » Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:32 am

sal wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:30 pm
I have a Compression lock prototype.

sal
NICE!!!!!!

I can already feel that thing launching open in my hand via an authoritative spydie flick.
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Are you a magician? :eek:
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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Surfingringo » Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:07 am

Neither the liner lock nor the compression are my favorite locks but I like both of them fine. The liner lock on the Millie is actually the best example of that lock I’ve experienced. I wouldn’t buy a Millie 2 just for a compression lock but if that model also comes tapped for tip up carry then I will choose the 2 over the original simply for that.

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby yablanowitz » Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:14 am

sal wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:30 pm
I have a Compression lock prototype.

sal
Pass. I've tried for years to like the compression lock but the "left-handed" Para2 is the only one I've found tolerable.

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Bill1170 » Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:12 am

Since the Military is a bigger overall platform than the PM2, it is possible that a compression lock Military could be implemented in a fashion that improves on the glove-friendliness of the PM2. Don’t limit Spyderco designs to what has come before, let’s see what they develop.

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Wartstein » Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:19 am

Bill1170 wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:12 am
Since the Military is a bigger overall platform than the PM2, it is possible that a compression lock Military could be implemented in a fashion that improves on the glove-friendliness of the PM2. Don’t limit Spyderco designs to what has come before, let’s see what they develop.
Just one of the aspects that makes a lock glove friendly is that you can either disengage it with the thumb (backlock) or have a really large area to work with (linerlock).
Comp. lock and mittens is a bad combo imho...
Last edited by Wartstein on Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ric
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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Ric » Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:21 am

@pancake: thanks

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Wartstein
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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Wartstein » Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:21 am

Added to my post above:
But sure, if they'd make the locktab of the comp. lock a LOT larger and as little recessed as possible, that would change things
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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby steelcity16 » Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:45 am

Wartstein wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:21 am

Added to my post above:
But sure, if they'd make the locktab of the comp. lock a LOT larger and as little recessed as possible, that would change things

Whatever they can do to prevent the knife from opening partially while in the pocket would be great as well. Had that issue with my Para 3 LW. I believe during movement the fabric of my shorts would bunch up and press the lock tab releasing the blade allowing it to open slightly. Very hazardous and caused me to sell mine. The Shaman doesn't seem to have this issue with it's slightly different design. It's been in my pockets of shorts and jeans non-stop for a good month now and no random partial openings.
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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby yablanowitz » Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:46 am

Yeah, it would amplify the very things I dislike most about the comp lock. I've been pinched and stung by that tab too many times already to be thrilled with the prospect of a bigger, more acceccible tab.

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby steelcity16 » Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:48 am

yablanowitz wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:46 am

Yeah, it would amplify the very things I dislike most about the comp lock. I've been pinched and stung by that tab too many times already to be thrilled with the prospect of a bigger, more acceccible tab.

I haven't had the pinch problem with my Shaman yet either, but I definitely did on my Para 3 LW, Para 3s, and PM2s. Super annoying.
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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby 5-by-5 » Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:53 am

yablanowitz wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:46 am
Yeah, it would amplify the very things I dislike most about the comp lock. I've been pinched and stung by that tab too many times already to be thrilled with the prospect of a bigger, more acceccible tab.
The comp lock definitely sux. However I'm very interested in the button comp lock. More button please!

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Vivi » Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:02 pm

Wartstein wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:19 am
Bill1170 wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:12 am
Since the Military is a bigger overall platform than the PM2, it is possible that a compression lock Military could be implemented in a fashion that improves on the glove-friendliness of the PM2. Don’t limit Spyderco designs to what has come before, let’s see what they develop.
Just one of the aspects that makes a lock glove friendly is that you can either disengage it with the thumb (backlock) or have a really large area to work with (linerlock).
Comp. lock and mittens is a bad combo imho...
I've never had any issues operating a comp lock lefty or with my thumb?

I'd love to see them incorporate a szabo folder style self close on a comp lock Military.

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby ThomC » Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:27 pm

steelcity16 wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:48 am
yablanowitz wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:46 am

Yeah, it would amplify the very things I dislike most about the comp lock. I've been pinched and stung by that tab too many times already to be thrilled with the prospect of a bigger, more acceccible tab.

I haven't had the pinch problem with my Shaman yet either, but I definitely did on my Para 3 LW, Para 3s, and PM2s. Super annoying.
Wouldn't a solution to that be carrying the knife with the back of the blade facing the outer pocket stich ?

I'm excited to see the Military 2, whatever the lock, because its design is what attracted me to Spyderco (though I bought a PM2 for size reasons, wouldn't want to scare customers when I'm flipping a 4" blade to open boxes).
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