Military 2. What exactly is going on?

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Surfingringo
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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Surfingringo » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:33 pm

Bloke wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:05 pm
Pelagic wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:40 pm
Sal values all the input here. I don't think he's rolling his eyes at suggestions or hints as to where the market is headed. Hardly anyone wants the military replaced. But to you'd have to be very biased towards the model not to see room for minor improvements. Spyderco has their CQI program for a reason, and it isn't because they don't put a ton of time and effort into original designs. It's because nothing is perfect.
Fair enough on the input!

What do you reckon would make the Military perfect ... stronger tip, holes all over the scales, different lock?

Quite bizarre. :confused:

Ask for any knife you like Hitch ... everybody else does so why not?

Here’s where I take a little exception; the knife you and others want is not a Military that’s for sure! You want a power lock Military, Joe Blogs wants a compression lock Military. Jimmy Brings won’t buy one because he only carries tip up. It goes on and on but none of the knives described are a Military, not even close. :)
I’m not following you. How are you defining the essence of the Military? Why would a lock change make it not a Military? Why would 6 extra holes to accommodate tip up carry make it not a Military? Is the backlock Manix a Manix? It looks like a Manix. It shares an awful lot of design characteristics with the Manix. It’s even called a Manix. Who gets to decide it’s not a Manix?

Lol, I’m mostly just taking the piss out of you Alex. I don’t really care too much if they come out with the Military 2 or not. As it stands now though, I’ll probably only buy more Millies if they start offering them tapped for tip up. As far as that “not being a Military”, meh, I’d agree with you...but then we’d both be wrong. :cool: :p

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby gibs0n » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:41 pm

As Vivi quoted earlier, a modified/additional military was first mentioned by Sal back in 2005. Here’s a quote from 2011 about it;
sal wrote:
Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:43 pm
Hi Seventynine,

We have had the Military on the design board for quite some time now. We've adapted a new lock for (stop-lock) and it's been in engineering. Then we'll make any ergo and clip adjustments and bring out a "2" model. Don't know yet if we'll use the new pivot bushing on the new Military.

We only have one engineer and Eric and I are responsible for the designs. While we also use outside designers, and we have Michael Janich in-house, the workload for so many models is often high.

I don't think we'll disco the original model when the new model comes out.

sal
So a Military “2” model that at one point would have run parallel to the “1” was in the works. We know that ideas come and some never make it to production. As much as I’ve waited since 2005 and would love to see the stop lock equipped Military Sal has mentioned a few times, I suspect its one of those models that has been left behind or, more likely, moved to the back burner. Vivi started this thread just looking for an update on a previous mentioned in-development version of the Military. One I’m also super interested in, too.

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Bloke » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:48 pm

Vivi wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:30 pm
The Military 2 is Sal's idea, not mine. I'm just asking if he's still planning to make his idea. Why would Sal be upset that someone is interested in a knife he designed?
I'm hearing you Vivi and I know you stated the same at the beginning. :)

I just can't help but think Mr Glesser must be happy with the Military as is. Not everyone will like every knife and fair enough for anyone to say I don't like model X.

I know Mr Glesser has mentioned a Military 2 but I feel it's ill manners on our part to tell him his design (The Military) is not so good and would be better and consequently sell more if only he ...

Just my take on things is all. :)
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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby AccountDeletedUserRequest » Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:06 pm

Bloke wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:48 pm
Vivi wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:30 pm
The Military 2 is Sal's idea, not mine. I'm just asking if he's still planning to make his idea. Why would Sal be upset that someone is interested in a knife he designed?
I'm hearing you Vivi and I know you stated the same at the beginning. :)

I just can't help but think Mr Glesser must be happy with the Military as is. Not everyone will like every knife and fair enough for anyone to say I don't like model X.

I know Mr Glesser has mentioned a Military 2 but I feel it's ill manners on our part to tell him his design (The Military) is not so good and would be better and consequently sell more if only he ...

Just my take on things is all. :)
That's not what I'm doing.

I'm asking what the status of one of his designs are.

Asking how his new design is coming along does not mean I'm trashing the previous version of that design.

I've mentioned in this very thread that I think the Military 1 is brilliant, and is the knife that got me into Spyderco.

It seems very strange to me to get defensive on another mans behalf for me asking how his knife design is coming along.

If the Millie 2 never happens, I'll still happily buy Police lightweights, Pacific Salts etc.

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Bloke » Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:42 pm

Surfingringo wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:33 pm
I’m not following you. How are you defining the essence of the Military? Why would a lock change make it not a Military? Why would 6 extra holes to accommodate tip up carry make it not a Military? Is the backlock Manix a Manix? It looks like a Manix. It shares an awful lot of design characteristics with the Manix. It’s even called a Manix. Who gets to decide it’s not a Manix?

Lol, I’m mostly just taking the piss out of you Alex. I don’t really care too much if they come out with the Military 2 or not. As it stands now though, I’ll probably only buy more Millies if they start offering them tapped for tip up. As far as that “not being a Military”, meh, I’d agree with you...but then we’d both be wrong. :cool: :p
Ah, hahaha, ah, hahaha, ah, hahaha! :)

I get your gist Lance. I'm just one of the many, I'd presume (?) that feels the existing Military is as perfect as it gets for a large yet lightweight folder and for the life of me I can't think of anything anyone could do to improve it. Furthermore, I'm inclined to think a different lock would only add weight and we'd be going backwards. ;)
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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Bloke » Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:11 pm

Vivi wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:06 pm
Bloke wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:48 pm
Vivi wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:30 pm
The Military 2 is Sal's idea, not mine. I'm just asking if he's still planning to make his idea. Why would Sal be upset that someone is interested in a knife he designed?
I'm hearing you Vivi and I know you stated the same at the beginning. :)

I just can't help but think Mr Glesser must be happy with the Military as is. Not everyone will like every knife and fair enough for anyone to say I don't like model X.

I know Mr Glesser has mentioned a Military 2 but I feel it's ill manners on our part to tell him his design (The Military) is not so good and would be better and consequently sell more if only he ...

Just my take on things is all. :)
That's not what I'm doing.

I'm asking what the status of one of his designs are.

Asking how his new design is coming along does not mean I'm trashing the previous version of that design.

I've mentioned in this very thread that I think the Military 1 is brilliant, and is the knife that got me into Spyderco.

It seems very strange to me to get defensive on another mans behalf for me asking how his knife design is coming along.

If the Millie 2 never happens, I'll still happily buy Police lightweights, Pacific Salts etc.
I'm not too sure how you come to the conclusions you have from my posts above.

I'd have thought I made it perfectly clear that I understood exactly what your intent was by starting this thread and I fail to see were I accused you of anything.

I have however voiced my opinion on this and similar threads over the years as I too feel the Military is a brilliant design. All said I do think and stand by the fact that telling anyone how they'd improve something they designed without them asking is ill mannered.

Has Mr Glesser ever asked anyone's advice on how to improve the existing Military? If he has I stand corrected and apologise unequivocally. :o

Again, I've accused you of nothing. :)
A day without laughter is a day wasted. ~ Charlie Chaplin

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby AccountDeletedUserRequest » Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:14 pm

Bloke, this isn't a thread to tell Sal how to design knives.

Sal designed a Military 2. I am asking what the status of that design is.

That's the one and only reason this thread is here.

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Bloke » Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:27 pm

Agreed Vivi.

But, I didn't accuse you personally of anything, let alone telling Mr Glesser how to design knives. :confused:
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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby araneae » Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:48 pm

Bloke wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:27 pm
Agreed Vivi.

But, I didn't accuse you personally of anything, let alone telling Mr Glesser how to design knives. :confused:
Your posts are generally good-natured, but I have to say you appear to be antagonizing here. If you don't like the thread, walk away. Vivi has a valid question and I think Sal can speak for himself if we give him enough time.
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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Bloke » Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:59 pm

araneae wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:48 pm
Bloke wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:27 pm
Agreed Vivi.

But, I didn't accuse you personally of anything, let alone telling Mr Glesser how to design knives. :confused:
Your posts are generally good-natured, but I have to say you appear to be antagonizing here. If you don't like the thread, walk away. Vivi has a valid question and I think Sal can speak for himself if we give him enough time.
Too easy! :cool:

Apologies to all! :o
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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Wartstein » Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:09 am

Without wanting to weigh in on any argument (all good again anyway, it seems! :) ), let me say:

- What interests me most in this thread IS exactly what Vivi intended to ask (as far as I understand): What happened to a design, of which Sal himself has said (in 2011 already!!!) that in fact it would come out!. I may copy and paste the quote from the link (viewtopic.php?p=647306#p647306) Vivi provided:

(Sal wrote) "We have had the Military on the design board for quite some time now. We've adapted a new lock for (stop-lock) and it's been in engineering. Then we'll make any ergo and clip adjustments and bring out a "2" model."

Of course I am not saying that Sal has any "obligation" whatsoever to tell us, what happened to this design! Still, just like I found it interesting for example to read which thoughts went into the design of the sheath for the new swick, I am also just courious, what reasoning could lead to in the end not actually releasing a model that is somewhat already designed and planned to be brought out.

- Many threads are in my experience partly just starting points to just discuss a model, or knives in general. I am often not sure myself to what degree a deviation into the "off-topic-land" is ok or not... (and I am most likely guilty of going off topic TOO far sometimes... :o ) - in fact I probably DO it right now...)

- I think it´s fine or even somewhat the purpose of this forum to tell even Sal what the one or the other would like to see changed or "improved" on even his designs. My top five favorite folder designs happen to be all by Sal Glesser (and I want to make clear: Four of those were on that list before I even really KNEW who he is, so this is not a fanboy-thing or something !!). Still, just BECAUSE I love knives, think about knives in detail, use knives in different situations as much as I can, I find on almost EVERY design one or two tiny detail I pesonally would change (exception of the rule: Chap FRN). This HAS to be so, cause of course no company can design a knife just for MY hand plus I would not really muse in detail about knives and not really try them out if I found nothing ever to be not absolutely perfect.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Pancake » Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:01 am

I am going to bring this kinda controversial topic back to front page.
I hope that from the last time it was discussed people have enough time to think about it and I hope that now some people are a bit more open-minded to consider a new model with different lock (and not instantly throw it into the fire and call it a heresy).

I really want to buy a Millie. I can live with tip down only carry, but one thing that I don´t like is the linerlock. It´s lightweight and Millie linerlock is as good as it can get in production knife, but it does not have bias to close.
I carry Police 4 quite often and I love the fact that the blade is going to stay closed due to lockback nature.

What some members want is to have an OPTION for this GREAT model just with a different lock. Linerlock Millie is hopefuly going to stay with us for the rest of the days, but it would be AWESOME to have Stop lock (or back lock, or power lock, or CBBL) Millie as a another option.
In the pocket: Chaparral FRN, Native Chief, Police 4 K390, Pacific Salt SE
On belt: Bow River, Waterway

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Bdubs808 » Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:07 am

As someone who has had plenty of Millies over the years and carried them a lot, I can't wait for a tip up version. Tip down just sucks, and no one can argue that because its a personal preference; if you prefer tip down, thats cool too, but I'd never try to get you to change your opinion.

As far as the lock goes, I don't mind liner locks one bit. If it was replaced with the Compression Lock though, I would be very pleased and wouldn't shed a tear for the old liner lock set up.
:spyder:

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Pelagic » Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:49 pm

The title throws everyone off. The number "2" kinda insinuates the model would be replaced, even that isn't the proposal. I think people mainly just want different variations of the military while keeping the classic alive.
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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Pancake » Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:21 pm

You are very right Pelagic. When is something very popular ,,as is“ a lot of fans don´t want even hear about changind something.
I am not the only one that don´t line linerlocks. In the past I thought that Comp lock is THE best thing in the world....but then I discovered backlock and my taste shifted from detent based locks.

Some users just have their preferences - and Millie 2 with Stop lock (or CBBL, or Backlock, not a Comp lock) would be just perfect.
In the pocket: Chaparral FRN, Native Chief, Police 4 K390, Pacific Salt SE
On belt: Bow River, Waterway

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby gundamaniac » Sun Nov 03, 2019 12:10 am

Something along the lines of the Sage series, but using the Military as a platform? That sounds interesting. Or maybe like the Manix 2 Backlock, which coexisted with the CBBL Manix 2 until the backlock was discontinued.

All that said, I actually don't own a Military. I have a Paramilitary 2 and now a Para 3 Lightweight...seems fitting I should complete the family with the granddaddy Military.

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Naperville » Sun Nov 03, 2019 12:33 am

I have one Military in S110V. I very much like the steel, and invested in a Black Bear Sheath that automatically opens the knife when it is drawn. I do not like the liner lock, but it has never failed on me.

That said, I'd prefer a better lock, preferably a backlock.

I'd even take the same steel, S110V, but people are all hung up on new steels. They rave about Cruwear but I like the S110V and the only steel that would move me would be Maxamet. I don't get in on sprints, so if it is made in Maxamet, I'd prefer it be added to the catalog as a std knife.

I'm right handed, but I understand the issue for left handed people, and it would not bother me to have the additional holes that I would not ever use...but maybe I would buy two and have one in my left and right pockets!
Spyderco Collection: Military (S110V), Bob Lum Darn Dao(CPM-154), Yojimbo 2 (1 in S30V & 2 in 20CV), Sustain(20CV), Native 5(Maxamet), Jumpmaster 2(H1), Province(4V). SHORT LIST: CF Shaman(S90V), Lum Tanto, Native Chief(?), Street Beat (AEB-L, NioMax or Nitro-V at 63HRC).

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Pancake » Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:40 am

This world needs Military with better lock!
In the pocket: Chaparral FRN, Native Chief, Police 4 K390, Pacific Salt SE
On belt: Bow River, Waterway

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Wartstein » Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:20 am

I finally managed to sell my custom wood scale Millie. Miss its great ergos and long blade, but I just can't have too many knives and needed funds for a Pac Salt SE user plus one backup (for the Pac Salt is discontinued).

A backlock Millie with tip up carry option would make me think again though...
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby abbazaba » Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:47 am

Is the Military really a big seller? I know the fans love it (I have 5),but the exclusives and sprints are usually pretty slow to sell comparatively speaking. Maybe they don't see a projected ROI that makes sense for a 2?

I know the shape of the current clip complicates it, but I'm still shocked they didn't introduce tip up with the CQI years ago. Would have solved the #1 complaint and possibly generated more sales.


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