Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
User avatar
Wartstein
Member
Posts: 2749
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:06 am
Location: Salzburg, Austria, Europe

Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Wartstein » Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:12 pm

Vivi wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:52 pm
Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:22 pm
Pancake wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:49 am
Vivi wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:45 am
I have the stop lock on the Parata and would not want it on the military. The lock is solid no doubt about it and very strong can't see it being practical though for one handed opening at all.
I haven't used the stop lock yet. You're saying not only do you find it difficult to close one handed, but opening too? I already read some comments on another website about it being tough to close one handed. I'll have to look for a shop that has one in stock.

I am very courious about that stop lock.

Concerning "tough to close one handed": I strongly assume (but still just assume), that it is like with the backlock: One finds it tough to close one handed just initially when new to the lock , and has to figure out how-to-do and practice a bit before it comes easy and natural.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

User avatar
Vivi
Member
Posts: 5801
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:15 am

Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Vivi » Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:40 pm

Great news guys. After a lot of searching I finally found a post by Sal regarding this subject. It's from 2011 though.....
sal wrote:
Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:43 pm
Hi Seventynine,

We have had the Military on the design board for quite some time now. We've adapted a new lock for (stop-lock) and it's been in engineering. Then we'll make any ergo and clip adjustments and bring out a "2" model. Don't know yet if we'll use the new pivot bushing on the new Military.

We only have one engineer and Eric and I are responsible for the designs. While we also use outside designers, and we have Michael Janich in-house, the workload for so many models is often high.

I don't think we'll disco the original model when the new model comes out.

sal


User avatar
Vivi
Member
Posts: 5801
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:15 am

Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Vivi » Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:54 pm

Here is another quote from Sal. It was quoted by another member and I couldn't find the original quote. Obviously this isn't the first time I've asked about this model :)

sal wrote:Hi Vivi,

It's still in engineering development. We made a mock-up for strength testing and it exceeded 200 inch /lbs per inch. The potential is very good. We're working on fitting it into a Miliary model.

With so many models in-the-works at any given time, overall progress is slower than we'd like. We've got 2 engineers in-house, and they're always busy on new model development or tooling. We've got 50+ models in the line at this time.

sal
It isn't clear if the mock-up is a general mock-up of the lock, or a proto of the Military 2. Either way its definitely possible a Military 2 has already been built, we just haven't seen it.

The Military was the first Spyderco I've ever liked. I've purchased over ten of them. Prior to buying the latter 9, I've always second guessed the purchase, thinking the Military 2 could be announced any year now.....

It was my EDC of choice until I had it open in my pocket on accident. I have a hunch the stop lock version may find its way back in my pocket....if it ever comes out.

User avatar
Pancake
Member
Posts: 141
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2019 4:52 am

Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Pancake » Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:02 pm

Vivi, its funny how my taste change. My first Spyderco was PM2 and I think that comp lock is the best thing in the world after sliced bread. But, when I tried backlock on Chief, I am converted to backlock, mainly because of the self close funtion. PM2 is not going anywhere, now it is my beater.
Stop lock looks very nice and its looks like it will stay closed very well.

If Millie 2 would come next reveal I would buy, even if it would be only S30V.

User avatar
Vivi
Member
Posts: 5801
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:15 am

Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Vivi » Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:08 pm

Pancake wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:02 pm
Vivi, its funny how my taste change. My first Spyderco was PM2 and I think that comp lock is the best thing in the world after sliced bread. But, when I tried backlock on Chief, I am converted to backlock, mainly because of the self close funtion. PM2 is not going anywhere, now it is my beater.
Stop lock looks very nice and its looks like it will stay closed very well.

If Millie 2 would come next reveal I would buy, even if it would be only S30V.
I used to be one of the guys asking for a compression lock Military, but these days that wouldn't interest me at all. I'm open to any lock that has a self close, and it seems the stop lock is among them.

I can live with the tip down carry if the Military 2 has a self close. That's the only deal breaker in the current version. Of course, tip up carry and a deeper index choil would suit me nicely.

User avatar
Wartstein
Member
Posts: 2749
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:06 am
Location: Salzburg, Austria, Europe

Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Wartstein » Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:08 pm

Pancake wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:02 pm
Vivi, its funny how my taste change. My first Spyderco was PM2 and I think that comp lock is the best thing in the world after sliced bread. But, when I tried backlock on Chief, I am converted to backlock, mainly because of the self close funtion. PM2 is not going anywhere, now it is my beater.
Stop lock looks very nice and its looks like it will stay closed very well.

If Millie 2 would come next reveal I would buy, even if it would be only S30V.

Great you discovered the backlock for you!! :)

But: "Only" S30V... ?? ;)
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

User avatar
Wartstein
Member
Posts: 2749
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:06 am
Location: Salzburg, Austria, Europe

Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Wartstein » Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:11 pm

Vivi wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:54 pm
Here is another quote from Sal. It was quoted by another member and I couldn't find the original quote. Obviously this isn't the first time I've asked about this model :)

sal wrote:Hi Vivi,

It's still in engineering development. We made a mock-up for strength testing and it exceeded 200 inch /lbs per inch. The potential is very good. We're working on fitting it into a Miliary model.

With so many models in-the-works at any given time, overall progress is slower than we'd like. We've got 2 engineers in-house, and they're always busy on new model development or tooling. We've got 50+ models in the line at this time.

sal
It isn't clear if the mock-up is a general mock-up of the lock, or a proto of the Military 2. Either way its definitely possible a Military 2 has already been built, we just haven't seen it.

The Military was the first Spyderco I've ever liked. I've purchased over ten of them. Prior to buying the latter 9, I've always second guessed the purchase, thinking the Military 2 could be announced any year now.....

It was my EDC of choice until I had it open in my pocket on accident. I have a hunch the stop lock version may find its way back in my pocket....if it ever comes out.

Very interesting.
And, yes, you' ve asked before...;)

Found this by happenstance when looking for Parata threads... (scroll down just a bit):
viewtopic.php?t=76778
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

User avatar
Pancake
Member
Posts: 141
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2019 4:52 am

Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Pancake » Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:16 pm

Vivi wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:08 pm
I used to be one of the guys asking for a compression lock Military, but these days that wouldn't interest me at all. I'm open to any lock that has a self close, and it seems the stop lock is among them.

I can live with the tip down carry if the Military 2 has a self close. That's the only deal breaker in the current version. Of course, tip up carry and a deeper index choil would suit me nicely.
Hey Vivi, just a qeastion, would you buy a CBBL Millie?
Wartstein wrote: Great you discovered the backlock for you!! :)

But: "Only" S30V... ?? ;)
Oh you know how it come here in Spydieland. Everyone wants M390, 20CV, Cru-Wear and 4V to be a base model. :D But I am fine with S30V :)

User avatar
Vivi
Member
Posts: 5801
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:15 am

Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Vivi » Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:23 pm

Pancake wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:16 pm
Vivi wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:08 pm
I used to be one of the guys asking for a compression lock Military, but these days that wouldn't interest me at all. I'm open to any lock that has a self close, and it seems the stop lock is among them.

I can live with the tip down carry if the Military 2 has a self close. That's the only deal breaker in the current version. Of course, tip up carry and a deeper index choil would suit me nicely.
Hey Vivi, just a qeastion, would you buy a CBBL Millie?
Wartstein wrote: Great you discovered the backlock for you!! :)

But: "Only" S30V... ?? ;)
Oh you know how it come here in Spydieland. Everyone wants M390, 20CV, Cru-Wear and 4V to be a base model. :D But I am fine with S30V :)
Yep. The CBBL works great for me in the Manix XL. I'd buy it....but after waiting 15 years to see the stop lock Military, I really want to see THAT particular knife.

I'd feel a little let down if after all these years we never see a photo of it at least, even if they decide not to release it. I've been following progress on it since 2004 or 2005 now?

User avatar
Pancake
Member
Posts: 141
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2019 4:52 am

Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Pancake » Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:45 pm

Vivi wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:23 pm
I'd feel a little let down if after all these years we never see a photo of it at least, even if they decide not to release it. I've been following progress on it since 2004 or 2005 now?
Maybe someting along those lines?
Image

User avatar
Outlaw Pete
Member
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:30 am
Location: Base Camp

Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Outlaw Pete » Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:35 am

I know I’m in the minority on this one but I’m not a big fan of the stop lock. Isn’t it just a variation on the backlock?
It ruins the lines on the handle.

I’ve had Militarys for nearly 25 years and never had any issues with the liner lock.

User avatar
Vivi
Member
Posts: 5801
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:15 am

Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Vivi » Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:08 am

Outlaw Pete wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:35 am
I know I’m in the minority on this one but I’m not a big fan of the stop lock. Isn’t it just a variation on the backlock?
It ruins the lines on the handle.

I’ve had Militarys for nearly 25 years and never had any issues with the liner lock.
I don't think it ruins the lines any more than the large cutout to facilitate easy operation of the liner lock. I've always felt ergonomics would improve if the Military stayed 100% the same, aside from changing the lock to one that doesn't require the cut-out.

Looking at the photo above, that handle looks more ergonomic to me because the presentation side lacks that cut-out.

But removing that cut-out while retaining the liner lock would be a step back in functionality, which is why a new lock is needed to, in my opinion, make the Military 2 the best it can be.

Having never used the stop lock I obviously can't say with any authority it would be a superior choice to the CBBL or a backlock, but Sal seems to think it would be, and I trust his design vision.

User avatar
5-by-5
Member
Posts: 322
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:12 pm
Location: Puget Sound

Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby 5-by-5 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:30 am

Outlaw Pete wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:35 am
I know I’m in the minority on this one but I’m not a big fan of the stop lock. Isn’t it just a variation on the backlock?
It ruins the lines on the handle.

I’ve had Militarys for nearly 25 years and never had any issues with the liner lock.
No. The stop lock does not have a thumb Nick like a back lock. The power lock has a thumb Nick and looks exactly like a back lock. The stop lock has to be pulled out from the frame in a similar action to the ball bearing lock that you have to pull back with your thumb and forefinger

User avatar
Tucson Tom
Member
Posts: 1021
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:19 pm
Location: Somewhere in Arizona

Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Tucson Tom » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:01 am

5-by-5 wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:30 am
The stop lock has to be pulled out from the frame in a similar action to the ball bearing lock that you have to pull back with your thumb and forefinger
Well that is weird. I never would have guessed this by looking as the "see-through" photo of the mechanism posted earlier. I'll probably never understand or know what I think about the lock before I get one in hand. I'm heartened to hear that the rumor of "difficult one-hand opening" was just a typo of sorts. As far as one hand closing, I really could care less so we are good to go on that count.

Overall though, I can't find myself getting excited about the stop lock. The back lock is strong enough for anything imaginable, and the stop lock adds an ugly cutout and a need to manipulate some button like thing to close it. Just what are the advantages supposed to be other than some "new thing"?

User avatar
5-by-5
Member
Posts: 322
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:12 pm
Location: Puget Sound

Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby 5-by-5 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:01 am

Tucson Tom wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:01 am
5-by-5 wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:30 am
The stop lock has to be pulled out from the frame in a similar action to the ball bearing lock that you have to pull back with your thumb and forefinger
Well that is weird. I never would have guessed this by looking as the "see-through" photo of the mechanism posted earlier. I'll probably never understand or know what I think about the lock before I get one in hand. I'm heartened to hear that the rumor of "difficult one-hand opening" was just a typo of sorts. As far as one hand closing, I really could care less so we are good to go on that count.

Overall though, I can't find myself getting excited about the stop lock. The back lock is strong enough for anything imaginable, and the stop lock adds an ugly cutout and a need to manipulate some button like thing to close it. Just what are the advantages supposed to be other than some "new thing"?
The see-through lock posted earlier is the power lock not the stop lock.

User avatar
gibs0n
Member
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:11 am

Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby gibs0n » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:29 pm

Pancake wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:45 pm
Vivi wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:23 pm
I'd feel a little let down if after all these years we never see a photo of it at least, even if they decide not to release it. I've been following progress on it since 2004 or 2005 now?
Maybe someting along those lines?
Image
Pancake, I would buy that in a heartbeat. At least twice.

The Military isn’t a knife I NEED, but it’s one I’ve WANTED since it came out. The only hold up for me has been I don’t like liner locks, largely because like Vivi I enjoy a bias toward being closed and I don’t like my digits being in the path of the blade as it closes. (Though in fairness I do love my crickets! And I’ve repeatedly tried to like liner and frame locks—leafstorm, techno, techno 2 specifically—but they just didn’t stick.)

Ever since I first caught wind from Sal of the stop lock military 2 (probably around the same time as Vivi, 2005ish) I knew that’d by my Military.

I’m not saying Spyderco is losing sales by not making a Military with an alternative lock generally or the stop lock specifically—just that I’ve personally been holding out for this version since it was first mentioned because of my general dislike of liner and frame locks.

Again: the one Pancake mocked up? I’d buy. No doubt.

User avatar
Tucson Tom
Member
Posts: 1021
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:19 pm
Location: Somewhere in Arizona

Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Tucson Tom » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:58 pm

5-by-5 wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:01 am
Tucson Tom wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:01 am
5-by-5 wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:30 am
The stop lock has to be pulled out from the frame in a similar action to the ball bearing lock that you have to pull back with your thumb and forefinger
Well that is weird. I never would have guessed this by looking as the "see-through" photo of the mechanism posted earlier. I'll probably never understand or know what I think about the lock before I get one in hand. I'm heartened to hear that the rumor of "difficult one-hand opening" was just a typo of sorts. As far as one hand closing, I really could care less so we are good to go on that count.

Overall though, I can't find myself getting excited about the stop lock. The back lock is strong enough for anything imaginable, and the stop lock adds an ugly cutout and a need to manipulate some button like thing to close it. Just what are the advantages supposed to be other than some "new thing"?
The see-through lock posted earlier is the power lock not the stop lock.
Bah, humbug! Somehow both these locks got mentioned and I got confused. Let's just simplify all this and make the Military 2 a slip joint knife.

Doeswhateveraspidercan
Member
Posts: 1852
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:31 pm

Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:04 pm

Wartstein wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:12 pm
Vivi wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:52 pm
Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:22 pm
Pancake wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:49 am

I have the stop lock on the Parata and would not want it on the military. The lock is solid no doubt about it and very strong can't see it being practical though for one handed opening at all.
I haven't used the stop lock yet. You're saying not only do you find it difficult to close one handed, but opening too? I already read some comments on another website about it being tough to close one handed. I'll have to look for a shop that has one in stock.

I am very courious about that stop lock.

Concerning "tough to close one handed": I strongly assume (but still just assume), that it is like with the backlock: One finds it tough to close one handed just initially when new to the lock , and has to figure out how-to-do and practice a bit before it comes easy and natural.
You are assuming incorrectly.

The Stop Lock is strong I wish to make this understood. A VERY VERY STRONG LOCK. Strong as in you are not going to accidentally disengage it due to the strength of the spring. This is also what makes it impracticable to close with one hand.

You have to take your thumb and index finger and pull up against a strong spring with the back of the knife held in position by your palm. Not as easy as you might think. It does have to do with the shape of the Parata's handle making this even more difficult due to its bend.

Would a stop lock be a deal breaker for me? Nope I like the lock but for people needing a knife that can be easily closed one handed well it is not my first choice.

Cold Steel really got it right with the triad lock in so many ways and would love to see more of Spyderco's Powerlock.

After reading all of this and seeing how well liner-less knives work and how the Stop Lock can be so easily implemented just like the Back Lock and the compression lock in a liner-less handle well why not.

A stop lock Military 2 would be a great knife, would still prefer a back lock or the powerlock though.

With the linerless direction Spyderco is going in I think the power lock will fit right in and be the lock used in the MIlitary 2.

Oh as an after thought some bearings in the Military two would be awesome.
:)

User avatar
gibs0n
Member
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:11 am

Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby gibs0n » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:09 pm

Tucson Tom wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:58 pm
Bah, humbug! Somehow both these locks got mentioned and I got confused. Let's just simplify all this and make the Military 2 a slip joint knife.
Funny you say that, because most of the knives I carry frequently are Spyderco Slipjoints, even though I can carry legally pretty much anything. UKPK, Urban, Squeak. Also the Manix 2 LW and Caly 3 Hap40. But the slipjoints meet my day to day needs and hit preferences of bias toward close and fingers not being in the blade path (due the very pronounced 90° stop).

I’d buy a Military slipjoint! :D


Return to “Spyderco General Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 21 guests